Vaccines....

[Janba]

I have always managed to find vets I like and trust in my various moves from place to place. I have also met a few that I would never go back to but as PF says they are people and you get the good and the bad.

I am busy sussing out the local vets (within walking distance) at my new house and they seem very good despite the fact the vet was horrified that I don't vaccinate for kennel cough and only C3 every 3 years. I did tell him I am very happy to titre test and that I hadn't had kennel cough since I stopped vaccinating for it but regularly had it before that.

My youngest boy is the first I have had a say in his vaccination regime. He had a C3 at about 9 weeks and a nasal spray for KC at about 10 weeks for importation (I don't think it was a requirement but a recommendation) and was imported at 12 weeks. He then has another C3 at about 14 weeks and then a C3 at 15 months.

[whippets]

My vet is fantastic. Actually I use 2 vets. One specialises in sighthounds and the other in reproduction.

Neither believe they are infallible either. I tend to go by their advice and my own experience, not advice from vet nurses or vet students for that matter .

[whippets]

Rubbish. The FDA wouldn't even approve the drug if the research was kept behind closed doors.

Uh huh, right. So when all those veterinary drug companies say the research is "on file", that actually means they've published it?

Plus veterinary vaccines don't need to be approved by the FDA, as it doesn't regulate veterinary vaccines.

Ah yes my bad, I was thinking humans for a minute. They are regulated by the Department of Agriculture Vet Bio centre. End result is still the same. They have to have the research done or it doesn't get approved.

Did I say anything about it being published in a vet journal? nope you did.

[Jed]

alanglen

Just a quick congrats to the vets on here who are standing up for our profession

Hmm, didn't think the vets needed to "stand up for their profession". Where was the profession questioned? I must have missed that.

As for the J.Dodd's seminar, I would have gone if I had known about it, mostly to meet this amazing person who gets quoted all over the place despite a fair portion of the information being opinion rather than fact.

*sigh*

She's published I dunno how many papers, some is opinion, a lot is researched facts.

*sigh*

[Staranais]

Rubbish. The FDA wouldn't even approve the drug if the research was kept behind closed doors.

Uh huh, right. So when all those veterinary drug companies say the research is "on file", that actually means they've published it?

Plus veterinary vaccines don't need to be approved by the FDA, as it doesn't regulate veterinary vaccines.

Ah yes my bad, I was thinking humans for a minute. They are regulated by the Department of Agriculture Vet Bio centre. End result is still the same. They have to have the research done or it doesn't get approved.

Did I say anything about it being published in a vet journal? nope you did.

Well, if it's in the public arena, where is it published? You were the one saying you'd be able to read it, and I take it you don't work for the Department of Agriculture...

Obviously the data is provided to the regulatory body, there are a whole bunch of hoops for manufacturers to jump through before a new drug is approved, that doesn't necessarily mean that the information is published for the general public to freely access.

[Staranais]

I tend to go by their advice and my own experience, not advice from vet nurses or vet students for that matter :D .

I'll take care not to give you any then...

[Jed]

Whippets, I think the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority is the government regulatory body responsible for this. They have been asked to provide information to support revaccination product label claims but have not responded.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Jed

[ellz]

alanglen

Just a quick congrats to the vets on here who are standing up for our profession

Hmm, didn't think the vets needed to "stand up for their profession". Where was the profession questioned? I must have missed that.

As for the J.Dodd's seminar, I would have gone if I had known about it, mostly to meet this amazing person who gets quoted all over the place despite a fair portion of the information being opinion rather than fact.

*sigh*

She's published I dunno how many papers, some is opinion, a lot is researched facts.

*sigh*

And dare I add that she is respected pretty much universally for those facts and that "opinion".

[oakway]

alanglen

Just a quick congrats to the vets on here who are standing up for our profession

Hmm, didn't think the vets needed to "stand up for their profession". Where was the profession questioned? I must have missed that.

As for the J.Dodd's seminar, I would have gone if I had known about it, mostly to meet this amazing person who gets quoted all over the place despite a fair portion of the information being opinion rather than fact.

*sigh*

She's published I dunno how many papers, some is opinion, a lot is researched facts.

*sigh*

I sigh along with you.

Why is it that when people have been breeding longer than some people have been vets or for that matter been alive.....think that some us of don't keep abreast of the times. There are some of us that are dedicated breeders and we want to do the best for our dogs and the clients who purchase them. The only way we can do this is to keep abreast of the times.

Yes, we speak to the TOP people in their field and yes, they give us answers. Then we tell the vet. Shouldn't that be the other way round.? Then you all wonder why we get cranky with SOME vets.!!! Then you wonder why when we inform people on lists. Usually this knowledge that we have acquired is first put into practice on our own litters and we find that it works. Don't get mad with us because we have inquiring minds.

[Cavalier]

alanglen

Just a quick congrats to the vets on here who are standing up for our profession

Hmm, didn't think the vets needed to "stand up for their profession". Where was the profession questioned? I must have missed that.

As for the J.Dodd's seminar, I would have gone if I had known about it, mostly to meet this amazing person who gets quoted all over the place despite a fair portion of the information being opinion rather than fact.

*sigh*

She's published I dunno how many papers, some is opinion, a lot is researched facts.

*sigh*

And dare I add that she is respected pretty much universally for those facts and that "opinion".

In science nobody is respected for their opinion. You need this little thing called evidence - and Jean Dodds is yet to provide any evidence that vaccines cause cancer, epilepsy, hypoT etc

[WreckitWhippet]

I had an interesting conversation with a vet a couple of months back regarding vaccs. We talked about protocol, what I do, what he thinks people should do and then the conversation turned to " bread and butter". His opinion was the majority of vets won't move unless pushed, as vaccs are their bread and butter service and they can't afford to lose out.

[stormie]

I had an interesting conversation with a vet a couple of months back regarding vaccs. We talked about protocol, what I do, what he thinks people should do and then the conversation turned to " bread and butter". His opinion was the majority of vets won't move unless pushed, as vaccs are their bread and butter service and they can't afford to lose out.

As much as I want to deny this, unfortunately it is probably very true. One main reason my old boss wasn't keen on changing, was because he was worried he'd stop seeing people. That and he is also very science based, and wanted hard evidence before doing so.

Thing is, where I am now (vet I worked with at that old clinic left and bought his own clinic and I went with them) we have changed to the new protocol, using annual vaccines. Obviously he's assessing each animal, but so far most people have been very appreciative of the information. He's an awesome vet who only has the clients/patients interest at heart, so we're actually getting busier and people keep spreading the word about him!

We have also found that most of our clients are the first to ask if they can still come in for an annual health check.

[Jed]

I had an interesting conversation with a vet a couple of months back regarding vaccs. We talked about protocol, what I do, what he thinks people should do and then the conversation turned to " bread and butter". His opinion was the majority of vets won't move unless pushed, as vaccs are their bread and butter service and they can't afford to lose out.

As much as I want to deny this, unfortunately it is probably very true. One main reason my old boss wasn't keen on changing, was because he was worried he'd stop seeing people. That and he is also very science based, and wanted hard evidence before doing so.

Thing is, where I am now (vet I worked with at that old clinic left and bought his own clinic and I went with them) we have changed to the new protocol, using annual vaccines. Obviously he's assessing each animal, but so far most people have been very appreciative of the information. He's an awesome vet who only has the clients/patients interest at heart, so we're actually getting busier and people keep spreading the word about him!

We have also found that most of our clients are the first to ask if they can still come in for an annual health check.

As I see it, the biggest problem for practising vets who are not following the recommended protocol on vaccination is the problem of being sued. Advise the owner not to vac, dog gets parvo or something, vet has gone against the recommended protocol, he is liable.

It's problematic. What was needed is what has happened - changing the protocol. And advising pet owners so they can make up their own minds. If we decide against the recommended protocol, then WE are liable, which, imho, is fair enough.

Dr Bob Rogers court challenge will probably take years, but it will be interesting to see what the outcome is, and what happens then to protocols, depending on the outcome.

On health checks - I still have my dogs checked.

In science nobody is respected for their opinion. You need this little thing called evidence - and Jean Dodds is yet to provide any evidence that vaccines cause cancer, epilepsy, hypoT etc

You didn't research any of this at all, did you?

[puglvr]

The evidence is out there in every dog or cat that ever had a reaction to a vaccine. And before you say that they have had a reaction to the "additives" -Where is the proof of that?

Just a question- Do MLV's shed into the environment?

Edited November 2, 2009 by puglvr

[whippets]

Whippets, I think the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority is the government regulatory body responsible for this. They have been asked to provide information to support revaccination product label claims but have not responded.

Jed, yes that's right. I was referring to the USA regulating body.

I would have loved to have gone to that seminar in Sydney. I think it would have been great.

Vaccinating is a big part of a vets bread and butter but I think it's very irresponsable for some to push that when they can actually go for annual check ups plus titre testing.

[Staranais]

Yes, we speak to the TOP people in their field and yes, they give us answers. Then we tell the vet. Shouldn't that be the other way round.? Then you all wonder why we get cranky with SOME vets.!!! Then you wonder why when we inform people on lists. Usually this knowledge that we have acquired is first put into practice on our own litters and we find that it works. Don't get mad with us because we have inquiring minds.

So don't get mad with me for asking you to clarify or back up the information you provide. I have an inquiring mind too. :rolleyes:

Turns out Dr Jean Dodds is much more conservative in what she claims about vaccine side effects than many people on this thread have been (although obviously much more convinced of the importance of vaccine side effects than many vets are)... interesting to get the info straight from the horse's mouth. Thanks for the email address, Oakway.

[joelle]

Geez, Sometimes I think we are happier when we remain ingnorant... :rolleyes:

[Cavalier]

Yes, we speak to the TOP people in their field and yes, they give us answers. Then we tell the vet. Shouldn't that be the other way round.? Then you all wonder why we get cranky with SOME vets.!!! Then you wonder why when we inform people on lists. Usually this knowledge that we have acquired is first put into practice on our own litters and we find that it works. Don't get mad with us because we have inquiring minds.

So don't get mad with me for asking you to clarify or back up the information you provide. I have an inquiring mind too. :rolleyes:

Turns out Dr Jean Dodds is much more conservative in what she claims about vaccine side effects than many people on this thread have been (although obviously much more convinced of the importance of vaccine side effects than many vets are)... interesting to get the info straight from the horse's mouth. Thanks for the email address, Oakway.

Star - could you please PM me what Jean Dodds had to say in regards to vaccination side effects?

Jed - none of the links you have provided for me to look at showed any evidence of vaccinations causing cancer etc - just someones opinion. Im sorry but that is not enough for me.

[Erny]

As I see it, the biggest problem for practising vets who are not following the recommended protocol on vaccination is the problem of being sued. Advise the owner not to vac, dog gets parvo or something, vet has gone against the recommended protocol, he is liable.

Should this now work in the opposite, given the AVA's position statement pertaining to vaccination protocol on a 3-yearly basis? I mean, if Vets are out there advocating yearly vaccs and the dog suffers a side effect or other disease as a result, could not THAT Vet be sued for recommending in opposition to the AVA protocol? Or is it a case that it would be very unlikely that anyone would be able to prove 'cause' due to the potential for reactions to not show immediately?

[Erny]

Star - could you please PM me what Jean Dodds had to say in regards to vaccination side effects?

Me too, please Staranais :rolleyes:.