Staranais Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Same way you know which breeders are in it for the money, and which breeders are in it for the dogs. You talk to them, ask them questions, and pick the one that seems to know their stuff and that you feel comfortable with. Vets have different opinions since the issue isn't black and white. Which vaccination protocol is best will depend on the dog, and on the disease prevalence in the local area, and on the particular vaccine being used. Different vet schools will teach slightly different things. Different vets will have read different research, or come to different conclusions from the research they have read. Or vets will have their opinions guided by what they've experienced in practice - a vet that's seen lots of puppies die of parvo is probably going to have a different opinion on optimal vaccination frequency than a vet who hasn't seen much parvo but who has seen some serious vaccine reactions, for example. In your case, those two vets may recommend different protocols - perhaps the recommendations that one vet is giving are best for the brand/type of vaccine they're using, and the other vet may be using a different brand which is licensed for another protocol? If you want to go to your breeders vet, then I would say go to your breeders vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 None of the aboveC3 at 8-10 weeks and a second c3 4 weeks after the first ETA: There's no point vaccinating against kennel cough as they will get kennel cough regarldess. X3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whippets Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) C3 at 8 weeks, 12 weeks and 16 weeks. That's all. No yearly boosters. There is plenty of literature around in regards to over vaccination in dogs. Edited October 30, 2009 by whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanglen Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 No wonder there is so much kennel cough at shows if none of the breeders/showies are vaccinating for it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 No wonder there is so much kennel cough at shows if none of the breeders/showies are vaccinating for it!!!! I'd like to see your statistics on this. I've been breeding and exhibiting for 23 years and I can actually count on one hand the number of times I have encountered (or my dogs have contracted) canine cough from a dog show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanglen Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 3 show dogs in my clinic this week, I don't need a trial to tell me this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whippets Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 No wonder there is so much kennel cough at shows if none of the breeders/showies are vaccinating for it!!!! I havn't had Kennel Cough in my "showies" or race greyhounds for over 10+ years. The kennel cough vaccine is the same strain since vets started using it. Do you think that strain would be the same KC that some people seem to get now? I find that highly unlikely. Being a healthcare worker, I get yearly flu vax because I nurse the vulnerable, we get a different vaccine each year for different strains of flu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 3 show dogs in my clinic this week, I don't need a trial to tell me this. 3 in one week vs 3 in 23 years.....hmmmm......I'm happy with my statistics thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelle Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Starainais, Without sounding rude I would have thought that is obvious, I can go to whichever vet I choose. I am trying to choose a vet based on lots of different advice whichI would have thought ws a good thing..... its all very interesting....Lucky I have week to decide I dont mind paying for the three vaccines, I hope that hant come across in my posts. I just want to know if it necessary or precautionary....... ETA I mean over precautious, as oppose to necessity Edited October 31, 2009 by joelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whippets Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 yeah I've show dogs since 1985 or so. Maybe we had KC once or twice early in the piece, but it's a stretch to remember the time or the dog that got it for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 In all my years in dogs I NEVER seen or heard a dog with kennel cough at a show. I try to tell people that kennel cough, as in real kennel cough, is so bad that the dogs rupture their lungs and spray blood ever where. The grunty coughs that you hear now days is what I have been hearing as husk for as long as I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Starainais, Without sounding rude I would have thought that is obvious, I can go to whichever vet I choose. I am trying to choose a vet based on lots of different advice whichI would have thought ws a good thing..... Well, you were the one who asked why two vets would have different opinions, and how could you tell if a vet was in it "for the money". I was merely answering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 C3 - 8WKS C3 - 12WKS C3 - 16WKS. That's it. Have done this for about 40years, showing for longer than that and only once was there a case of kennel cough at a show, many years ago. None of mine caught it, maybe it wasn't KC but sounded like it and the exhibitor left early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Starainais, Without sounding rude I would have thought that is obvious, I can go to whichever vet I choose. I am trying to choose a vet based on lots of different advice whichI would have thought ws a good thing..... I agree with Staranais. You do your research based on the answers you get here and other places. You weigh it all up along with a dose of knowledge you have of your own area. You speak to your breeder and perhaps her Vet. And go with what makes the most sense and what and whom you're most comfortable with. One place you can visit for a read up and which I consider to be an excellent source of advice is Dr Jean Dodds Vaccination protocol . By reading there it might assist you with a deeper understanding of some things you are finding a bit confusing and can assist you with understanding more clearly the writings and opinions of others. Even the AVA are suggesting annual vaccines are an over-prescription even though some of their own members seem to be disregarding that. If that's the case, ask the Vet why they don't agree with the AVA's media release - perhaps there is a good reason? Personally, I don't go for the canine cough component of vaccines. It is a cough. I prefer for my dog not to contract it, but vaccinating him for it isn't going to prevent most strains anyway, so I'd likely be applying drugs on a yearly basis to my dog for no particularly great reason or effect. My boy is C3 level vaccinated (and I do not plan to vaccinate him again, unless there is very good reason that appears to suggest, with ALL things being taken into account, for his health that I should). He caught CC when he was about 5 months old. I dosed him on Active Manuka Honey and was watchful that he was keeping himself hydrated. Within 24 hours the cough symptom was gone. Within 24 hours beyond that he was back to his bouncing crazy self. I didn't exactly restrict him from self exercise, but I didn't encourage it or do anything that would have him too excited. I didn't have him out of his yard/home for about 10 days after symptoms disappeared (so as to not over-tax his system and also so as to not potentially spread the virus around). Edited October 31, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalier Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Ive seen multiple dogs over the years who have had their puppy vaccines, then the owner got lazy and didnt get any more, then the animal contracted parvovirus at a later age. Were those animals tested after the puppy vaccines to ensure they seroconverted, though, or are we just assuming they became immune to parvo after vaccination and then lost that immunity subsequently? Until they have done conclusive studies involving a large sample size and using a whole range of different vaccines, I will continue to recommend either annual vaccination or annual titre testing with revaccination as required. I doubt anyone will ever design and conduct the perfect vaccination study, but I've seen several large studies that strongly suggest vaccines tend to protect dogs for at least three years after their full puppy vaccine schedule, and haven't seen any good studies showing that adult dogs can lose their parvo immunity after showing a protective titre. Joelle, I agree with Cavalier that you should go with your vet's advice, they know the local conditions, and they know how to use the drugs that they're prescribing. If you don't trust your vet's advice, then get a second opinion from another vet - not from your breeder, who is probably well intentioned, but doesn't necessarily know much about vaccines. No they were not titre tested - and that was my point to Cavandra. How can you be certain your dogs have protection, ESPECIALLY when you are breeding pups, when you dont get any testing done and dont revaccinate??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) No they were not titre tested - and that was my point to Cavandra. How can you be certain your dogs have protection, ESPECIALLY when you are breeding pups, when you dont get any testing done and dont revaccinate??? The thing is, whilst Titre testing is a good tool/measure (ie if it shows positive for immunity levels), just because it shows negative doesn't mean the animal doesn't have protection. This is where I believe the discussion would move on to the topic of "cell memory". The problem is that we are all so frightened of our dogs NOT having immunity that we keep bombarding their systems with the vaccinations which doesn't help their immune system and affects them for so many other things that dogs are suffering (more now days than ever before), cancer being just one of them, but also allergies, thyroid issues, etc. etc. Over-vaccinating can have the affect of actually WEAKENING the system, as opposed to bolstering it as many would like to believe. There will, IMO, never be a guarantee to anything, but I think we need to put at least some trust to puppy vaccinations promoting immunity (and titre testing can assist, in some or many instances). It is a weigh of balance and more and more research is coming to the fore of how we are making our dogs sick by trying to keep them healthy. In one of the very many discussion on this subject even just here on DOL, I have read of not only one person who has had pups that WERE vaccinated, contract parvo, whereas other of her dogs who were NOT vaccinated (I'm talking boosters, here) did NOT contract it. So to suggest that dogs contracted parvo because regular (yearly or otherwise) boosters were not administered is, I think, only supposition. Edited October 31, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete.the.dog Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 The purebred dalmation I grew up with got all it's puppy vaccines, and that was it. She passed this year, at 16. She was on some form of arthritis medication for the last few years. About 2 months before she passed we called the breeders we got her from to let them know how old she was. They bred one litter after hers and retired, and she was the only dalmation from their breeding they knew of that was still alive, and the oldest they had ever heard of. (she also was fed 'noname' dog food her entire adult life. My pete has an unknown history. At around 6-7 months the rescuers gave him a C3. about a month after this my old vet boosted to C5. I intend on vaccinating Pete again in 3 years, and that will be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 No they were not titre tested - and that was my point to Cavandra. How can you be certain your dogs have protection, ESPECIALLY when you are breeding pups, when you dont get any testing done and dont revaccinate??? Ah, I misunderstood then, sorry. I didn't realise you were saying Cavandra should test after vaccinating to see if the dog had seroconverted originally. I thought you were saying Cavandra should titre test annually and revaccinate her dogs whenever the titres weren't still at "protective" levels. Your point about puppies is a good one and is something that some breeders don't understand or consider, IMO. Pups can't get maternal antibody protection if the dam does not have circulating antibodies to the disease. Whatever vaccine protocol a breeder chooses to use for her other dogs, giving a bitch a vaccination before breeding her can result in far better transfer passive immunity to the pups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalier Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 No they were not titre tested - and that was my point to Cavandra. How can you be certain your dogs have protection, ESPECIALLY when you are breeding pups, when you dont get any testing done and dont revaccinate??? Ah, I misunderstood then, sorry. I didn't realise you were saying Cavandra should test after vaccinating to see if the dog had seroconverted originally. I thought you were saying Cavandra should titre test annually and revaccinate her dogs whenever the titres weren't still at "protective" levels. Your point about puppies is a good one and is something that some breeders don't understand or consider, IMO. Pups can't get maternal antibody protection if the dam does not have circulating antibodies to the disease. Whatever vaccine protocol a breeder chooses to use for her other dogs, giving a bitch a vaccination before breeding her can result in far better transfer passive immunity to the pups. Absolutely. Ideally a breeding bitch should be vaccinated before mating, then have a titre test to ensure their are circulating antibodies to transfer into the colostrum. The bitch may still be protected without circulating antibodies - but the pups certainly will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Cavalier, you're still here? Would you go have a look at the skewer puppy thread please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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