Tatsu Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) We've only had Sarge for 3 days, but it is already apparent that he thinks we belong to him. Our 6 year old dog Nate isn't doing anything to assert his dominance. We are making sure that Nate is the first to get pats, the first to be fed, and gets alot of attention infront of sarge. But Sarge is bullying him already, and Nate has had issues with being bullied in the past. Sarge will put himself between myself and Nate when we're playing fetch, and chase nate when he comes near, grabbing his back, and his collar. All nate will do is growl a bit and then run off. He has only told Sarge off once and it worked that time, but i'm just wanting to know what other things we need to do to keep a balance. at the moment they are the same size and i was expecting Nate to have put Sarge in his place, but my worry is that Nate won't and then sarge is going to be 80kg and still doing the same thing! any input would be great Edited October 27, 2009 by Tatsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Looks like Nate is a submissive dog. Given that Sarge will soon dwarf him, I'd say that's a smart move. Now you have to deal with curbing excessive dominance in the pup. You will have to discipline him for grabbing Nate (take his collar off) and for other inappropriate behaviour. I would keep them separated unless they are supervised. Allow Nate to have access to you at times when Sarge is confined elsewhere. Big pups and tiny adult dogs are never an easy combination Tatsu. It's down to you to ensure that Nate can enjoy his life without the stress of having to deal with a big pup. Otherwise, his life will be hell. Edited October 27, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Poodlefan gave you good advice- I would also suggest reading up on Sarge's 'family tree'- and what the breeds are like generally, as he will have a lot of those traits. An early start to obedience training may be useful as well ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 At 8 weeks of age Sarge still has his puppy license and will appear to get away with murder. What happens around 16 weeks will be more telling, it is around this time that I would expect to see Nate start to lay down and enforce some firmer boundaries. If you are enrolled in a good puppy class the instructor should be able to help you with Sarge's dog-dog interactions, showing you when to step in and how to do this appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 At 8 weeks of age Sarge still has his puppy license and will appear to get away with murder. What happens around 16 weeks will be more telling, it is around this time that I would expect to see Nate start to lay down and enforce some firmer boundaries.If you are enrolled in a good puppy class the instructor should be able to help you with Sarge's dog-dog interactions, showing you when to step in and how to do this appropriately. The problem with that Aidan is that this dog will be so much bigger than the adult dog by that age. Some smaller dogs aren't going to be in the slightest bit effective curbing the excesses of a giant puppy. In fact Nate stands a very real chance of being hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 What breed is Sarge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thought I'd also add that you can't automatically expect dogs to assert themselves and tell off pups for bad behaviour. Some are just too tolerant or prefer to submit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 thanks for the replies. Sarge is Bullmastiff x Wolfhound/English Mastiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 At 8 weeks of age Sarge still has his puppy license and will appear to get away with murder. What happens around 16 weeks will be more telling, it is around this time that I would expect to see Nate start to lay down and enforce some firmer boundaries.If you are enrolled in a good puppy class the instructor should be able to help you with Sarge's dog-dog interactions, showing you when to step in and how to do this appropriately. The problem with that Aidan is that this dog will be so much bigger than the adult dog by that age. Some smaller dogs aren't going to be in the slightest bit effective curbing the excesses of a giant puppy. In fact Nate stands a very real chance of being hurt. I understand that, Tatsu is going to have to take the lead (as would ideally be the case in any pairing), and a good puppy class should demonstrate how to do this appropriately (you would hope). But Tatsu was expressing concern that Nate was not being "dominant" over the pup, which is completely normal. If Nate WAS doing this, I would have deeper concerns, it would be abnormally aggressive behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 If Nate WAS doing this, I would have deeper concerns, it would be abnormally aggressive behaviour. So are you saying that any dog that doesn't like puppies is exhibiting abnormally aggressive behaviour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 If Nate WAS doing this, I would have deeper concerns, it would be abnormally aggressive behaviour. So are you saying that any dog that doesn't like puppies is exhibiting abnormally aggressive behaviour? None of my little guys tolerate any shit from big baby pups.. If pup wants to get physical, pup is told to piss off. They give no license for being pounced on, grabbed or mouthed but they dont' over do it. They are better with pups that don't physically overpower them.. well two are anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 If Nate WAS doing this, I would have deeper concerns, it would be abnormally aggressive behaviour. So are you saying that any dog that doesn't like puppies is exhibiting abnormally aggressive behaviour? None of my little guys tolerate any shit from big baby pups.. If pup wants to get physical, pup is told to piss off. They give no license for being pounced on, grabbed or mouthed but they dont' over do it. They are better with pups that don't physically overpower them.. well two are anyway. Same here PF, that is why I was querying Aidan's statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Our 6 year old dog Nate isn't doing anything to assert his dominance. That can happen, that's why you'll need to step in and sort the pup out in leu of the older dog doing it. Pups have puppy licence as well. We are making sure that Nate is the first to get pats, the first to be fed, and gets alot of attention infront of sarge. As much as we like to think as humans we can control top dog positions, dogs swap around during the day depending on what they find valuable, so instead of giving pats and food first to the one you want to be higher in the pack, give pats and food first to the one who is the calmest that way you're telling the dogs that this calm behaviour is rewarded...who can be the calmest first to get the food/pat. But Sarge is bullying him already, and Nate has had issues with being bullied in the past. This is your job now to step in and show the pup what the boundaries are, you can leash pup whilst inside the house if neccessary. Sarge will put himself between myself and Nate when we're playing fetch, and chase nate when he comes near, grabbing his back, and his collar. Do you correct this behaviour? I would demand space around me and Nate when we're playing, Sarge is a pup and will learn quickly if you teach him how to respect personal space. All nate will do is growl a bit and then run off. He's trying to be less defensive about it, you really need to step in and repremand. He has only told Sarge off once and it worked that time, but i'm just wanting to know what other things we need to do to keep a balance. Be the Leader and control the packs interactions. Seperate these 2 dogs when unsupervised until the pup knows its' place. at the moment they are the same size and i was expecting Nate to have put Sarge in his place, but my worry is that Nate won't and then sarge is going to be 80kg and still doing the same thing! Hense why you need to step in now. If you're unsure on how to control the packs interactions, perhaps ask a trainer to come in and work with you Edited October 27, 2009 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) One of my girls will appropriately correct rude puppies too, even if they are young. I'm sure many would look at what she does as aggression or inappropriate but i don't think it is at all. I think she teaches some pups exceptional maners and body language and i can't wait to bring a pup home that can be raised with her and the rest of the pack (who play different roles) i think poodlefan and sas give sound advice. Are you going to training with the new puppy? Edited October 27, 2009 by Cosmolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) If Nate WAS doing this, I would have deeper concerns, it would be abnormally aggressive behaviour. So are you saying that any dog that doesn't like puppies is exhibiting abnormally aggressive behaviour? There are degrees. What we might consider normal behaviour towards a 16 week old pup shown towards an 8 week old pup on a consistent basis would be definite cause for concern and I would urge a person in that position to consult an experienced trainer or behaviourist. If it's just a case of the older dog being a bit grumpy but not hurting the pup (emotionally, developmentally or physically), then that would usually be OK. All dogs have the right to self-defence, but I'm pretty sure that was not what the OP was asking about. My replies until now were only in the context of the OP's original question. Edited October 27, 2009 by Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thanks so much for all of the advice. Sas that was a brilliant description. I'll be keeping a close eye on them both and when sarge has had all his shots we'll probably be getting him into obedience. He's quite a quick learner and is already doing sit/drop on command (most times!) Now, when i say he puts himself between nate and i, he may be standing 6 or 7 feet away but he knows that Nate has to go by him. I'm unsure of what a good correction is for this pup because he doesn't really respond to 'no' or to a loud noise. any other suggestions for correction? i'm sure once he gets more used to his name and to us he might respond better, but like you said i need to control this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Personally, I'm very concerned by the description you have given. I would be giving Sarge his marching orders, back to his breeder. This whole situation is completely unfair to Nate and I believe it is unsafe. A friend took on a young GSD puppy, she had an older maltese and the situation you've described is very similar to their relationship. One day, the GSD aged about 7 months, turned on the maltese and killed him - my friend desperately tried to save her little dog and got him onto her lap and the GSD came after him and finished him off. All in front of my friend and her grandchild. I'm not trying to scare you but I believe this situation will only escalate as time goes on. For an 8 week old large breed puppy to display the behaviours you have described, he is not suitable as a companion for your small breed dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortfurball Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thanks so much for all of the advice. Sas that was a brilliant description. I'll be keeping a close eye on them both and when sarge has had all his shots we'll probably be getting him into obedience. He's quite a quick learner and is already doing sit/drop on command (most times!) Now, when i say he puts himself between nate and i, he may be standing 6 or 7 feet away but he knows that Nate has to go by him. I'm unsure of what a good correction is for this pup because he doesn't really respond to 'no' or to a loud noise. any other suggestions for correction? i'm sure once he gets more used to his name and to us he might respond better, but like you said i need to control this now. I won't answer the other stuff because I think Poodlefan and Sas gave great answers, but for the above situation, leash or pen the pup out of the way when you are playing fetch so he can watch but not interact, and then switch dogs so he knows he gets his turn. My theory is that eventually (hopefully) he will realise that when you play with Nate, he has to wait his turn and stand aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 It is not that easy to have dogs of different sizes together. When I introduced my very full on aussie puppy Quest to my shelties I didn’t think it was going to work but with consistent training it has. Even now I wouldn’t dream of playing high drive games such as fetch together as when they are over excited they don’t watch where they are going and a bump from the bigger dog breaks bones in the little dog. Sarge is just being a puppy but it is up to you to correct his behavior every single time, don’t leave it to Nate and personally I would never leave them alone unsupervised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 No, definitely NEVER leave them unsupervised, not even for a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now