Feeding A Staff

[ozstaff]

hi

I have a 10 week old staff. I really have no idea how much to feed her. She is on a raw food diet, i basically just feed her until she doest want anymore then put the rest away and give it to her for her next meal and so on. She gets 3 feeds a day of this routine. Is it ok to let a pup eat until it doesnt want anymore or should i be restricting it. The other problem is she is very variable with how much she eats sometimes she eats heaps and other times very lil so i dont want to give her a small amount when she is hungry or a large amount when she not so hungry. She doesnt really look fat but i have no experince with pups so i dunno. I heard that if they get overfed as pups it can ruin their joints later in life is this true?

thanks

[puggy_puggy]

10% of their body weight daily is the approximate amount to feed a puppy. This is split into three meals a day. If they don't eat it within 10 minutes take it away and feed at the next meal time.

I would suggest that you really do alot of reading and research into raw feeding. If you feed raw inccorectly it can be worse then a cheap and nasty processed dog dog food.

http://www.barfaustralia.com/

http://www.barfaustralia.com/the_books.php?pid=3

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

[ozstaff]

hi

Ok so she is around 5.6-6kg atm so thats around 560-600grams a day. I will have to get scales i reckon she would be eating more than that atm. I didnt realise that if not done properly it could be worse than cheap dry stuff. Im feeding her roughly 70% red meat beef offcuts. The other 30% is made up of chicken wings, fish, eggs, and these beef bone things. Im gunna try get some veggies in there soon too does that sound ok. once a week she gets liver as well

[APBT]

the raw diet is fine, i fed my pup kibble at the start but went off it very quick, chicken necks are great but dont feed hard beef bones at this young age as it will do damage to there teeth, With the raw diet especially in pups you need to have the correct calcium to phosphate ration to help the pups fast growing bones, look around on the net as there's plenty of info, and good if done right.

With the kibble just ask your breeder, or if not go of the back of the kibble bag, i usually find they suggest to much but just feed what is says and then start feeding by eye, to skinny or to fat and go off that.

Also there are a lot of kibbles out there, look around some more and pick a good one for your dog, but remember all dogs do different on different kibbles, there's is no one size fits all.

she is eating sometimes more and sometimes less because you are free feeding are you not?

if you feed three times a day put the food down for each meal for around 15 min if its not eaten take it up till next meal time.

[Staranais]

I would suggest that you really do alot of reading and research into raw feeding. If you feed raw inccorectly it can be worse then a cheap and nasty processed dog dog food.

Yes, the raw diet can be great for dogs, but if done wrongly in a growing pup can lead to serious problems down the road. I too recommend you do your reading.

The amount of Ca:P you're feeding is pretty important, as ABPT says. As a general guide, you want to be aiming for about 30% of your diet as RMB for a growing pup, but again it's a good idea to do some reading for yourself on the matter.

The amount and type of organs you feed is something you should research too.

Remember that a good quality commercial diet, supplemented with a few RMB meals per week, is an option too - it doesn't have to be just kibble or raw, lots of dogs do well on a combination.

[WreckitWhippet]

hi

Ok so she is around 5.6-6kg atm so thats around 560-600grams a day. I will have to get scales i reckon she would be eating more than that atm. I didnt realise that if not done properly it could be worse than cheap dry stuff. Im feeding her roughly 70% red meat beef offcuts. The other 30% is made up of chicken wings, fish, eggs, and these beef bone things. Im gunna try get some veggies in there soon too does that sound ok. once a week she gets liver as well

Way too much red beef offcut and especially if it's without bone. You need to increase the chicken wings, you can also add chicken carcass, lamb flap and roo tail to the diet.

I would suggest that while you are learning about a "raw" diet, that you feed your puppy a quality dry for one meal a day and make the other two meals a couple of chicken wings or a peice of lamb flap etc and alternate between them.

[ozstaff]

hi

Thanks for all the replies very helpful. The 70%red meat value and the 30% chicken, fish, bones eggs etc was given to me by the breeder? What do you guys reccomend as the right amount of % of red meat?

I dont really have intentions of ever using any kibble as the breeder never feeds this to his dogs and said that i shouldnt either so I was hoping to just feed her raw stuff is this ok?

I plan on doing some reading when i get a chance time is always an issue however pardon my igonorance but when Staranais said i should be aiming for 30%rmb what does that mean? im very new to this. And what are the long term health issues of incorrectly feeding raw diet.

Would you say my dog has long term damage from giving her 70%red meat already? If not why would the breeder suggest that and his dogs are very well known.

thanks for all the help and thanks in advance for any response

[poodlefan]

Red meat is fine for most dogs Ozstaff provided it is fed on the bone. Finding bones a pup can actually digest isn't all that easy. That's why a lot of people feed chicken wings, legs and frames.

I suggest you ask your breeder exactly what they are feeding. A pup is better off on premium kibble and some chicken wings than on an unbalanced diet.

Do your homework carefully on raw feeding or feed a prepared food. Your pup only has one chance to grow right.

[WreckitWhippet]

It doesn't take much for a Stafford to quickly splay in the feet or go down in pastern.

We feed the babies lots of chicken wings, lamb flap and carcass.

[ozstaff]

hi

Ive done a bit of reading and now i can see what you guys r saying. Im now very confused about why i was told 70% red meat? Basically from what i read 60-75% of diet is raw meaty bones which they are saying is usually chicken wings and necks and carcasses. the rest of the diest is either meat(does this mean the beef off cuts ive been feeding?)fish, eggs and veggies.

So ive been feeding 70% or raw red meat with no bones this is a disaster right? I would like to know is there any redmeat that has bones in it that a pup can eat with a 50/50 bone meat ratio. Or do i just go with 60% chicken wings, neck and carcass and lamp flap(never heard of these) and the other 30% can be red beef off cuts, fish, eggs, veggies etc?

Im just confused as to why the breeder told me 70% red meat. Like i said his dogs are very well known and so is he so it makes things more confusing lol.

Am i on the right track with replacing the red beef off cuts with chicken wings etc is this a start

thanks

ps i realise iam thick as two short planks please bear with me

[WreckitWhippet]

Yep to the chicken wings, the pup will be able to consume the lot. Lamb flap is lamb breast ( ribs ), you can get it at the butchers.

Your pup will be fine, he might get a bit weak in pastern or splayed in the feet , but you should be able to correct that very quickly with the increase in chicken wings and you can also add some chicken necks.

[ozstaff]

hi

So to open another can of worms, ive been researching and hve now come across the prey model diet? From my understanding this is a diet with out veggies and roughly 80%meat 10%bones 10%organs? I have a feeling this is closer to the diet my breeder was talking about because he did mention a lot about dogs in the wild and how they eat.

Does this mean people who use this diet feed 80% pure meat ie red meat/chicken breast etc.

What are the pros and cons of each?

Is the prey diet only for adult dogs and not pups

thanks

[WreckitWhippet]

I think it's more a matter of preference. I tend to lean more towards the prey model diet with my guys, than I do BARF.

ETA: No matter what you read or diet you choose, you will find that you will fine tune it to each dog. You might leave out some foods and add others.

There's a whole world out there beyond simply feeding chicken , lamb or beef.

You can include Rabbits , turkey, camel ( you can get that in WA )

Edited October 27, 2009 by SBT123

[Staranais]

Does this mean people who use this diet feed 80% pure meat ie red meat/chicken breast etc.

I feed a kind of prey model diet.

When it says 10% bone, it means 10% plain bone, as the average small prey animal is about 10% bones by weight.

The bones you feed (chicken backs, lamb ribs, chicken wings) are not just bone, they're RMB, so they're already at least 1/2 to 2/3 meat.

That means you need to feed at least 25 - 30% of the diet as RMB in order to get 10% actual bone in the diet. Make sense?

Of the organs, half (5%) should be liver. And IMO, most of the rest should be kidney.

I feed green tripe too, it's great for dogs, and that's in addition to the 10% organs.

Make sure you freeze and defrost raw lamb or beef meat or organs before feeding it to your dog, kills most of the parasitic nasties that could be there.

[Starkehre]

Does this mean people who use this diet feed 80% pure meat ie red meat/chicken breast etc.

I feed a kind of prey model diet.

When it says 10% bone, it means 10% plain bone, as the average small prey animal is about 10% bones by weight.

The bones you feed (chicken backs, lamb ribs, chicken wings) are not just bone, they're RMB, so they're already at least 1/2 to 2/3 meat.

That means you need to feed at least 25 - 30% of the diet as RMB in order to get 10% actual bone in the diet. Make sense?

Of the organs, half (5%) should be liver. And IMO, most of the rest should be kidney.

I feed green tripe too, it's great for dogs, and that's in addition to the 10% organs.

Make sure you freeze and defrost raw lamb or beef meat or organs before feeding it to your dog, kills most of the parasitic nasties that could be there.

Great advice staranais.

May I add to that, regarding the freezing of any meat products, to kill the parasites, freezing must be for a minimum of 21 days.

[ozstaff]

hi Staranais

Thanks for that info tat makes a lot more sense. So in reality the prey diet is roughly 30%rmb, 10%organ and 60%raw meat(no bones?)

the barf diet is more like 60-75%rmb and the remainder 25-40% is raw meats(no bones) supplements, organs and veggies.

Have i got it pretty close now lol. The main difference from what i can see between the two is, no veg and few supps for prey and a much higher pure meat content compared to barf which has the much higher RMB content.

I think for a pup im gunna have a try at feeding more of a barf approach mainly because from what ive read a pup can get the right ratio of calcium:phosphate out of the rmb so i will go with around 60%rmb until she is older then possibly switch to the prey diet. Does that sound ok to you guys? Sorry for being so paranoid ive been losing sleep with this diet stuff lol didnt realise feeding a dog was so scientific, hopefully it will pay off.

thanks to all

[Staranais]

The amount of calcium is important as well as the Ca:P ratio (though not as important). I personally wouldn't want to feed more than about 50% of the diet as RMB (unless they were really meaty), although I know some people do feed up to 80% (!) bones and get away with it.

Most RMB have a Ca:P ratio that is OK for dogs, as you say. Meat has very little Ca or P compared to bone, so the Ca:P ratio in the diet will be mostly determined by the bones you feed.

But remember that pups need other nutrients too that don't come from bones and have to come from red meat and organs - zinc, iron, copper, to name a few. Too much calcium can actually bind to those minerals and stop them being absorbed correctly.

The official prey model doesn't include veges, but it does include plenty of green tripe which (in the natural state) is lined with processed grass. So if you're not feeding green tripe as a regular and substantial part of your prey diet, I'd suggest including some processed veges instead. I also include a little bit of fruit, and the occasional bowl of (cooked) porridge oats for my girl.

Don't forget you can include eggs, canned or fresh fish, yoghurt, etc, as well.