I Was Just Completely Disobeyed..

[Staranais]

Are you suggesting that human - dog communication is a one way street? You do all the "talking" and they tell you nothing?

Guess so.

I can't imagine being able to work my dog without her communicating with me.

My girl is trainee SAR. I was doing an offleash area seach last night with her. It was dark, so I sent her off to find people and soon lost sight of her. She appeared a few minutes later by my side and barked at me. That's our signal that she's found someone, so I immediately praised her and followed. I wasn't going fast enough I guess, because she came back half way and body slammed me, then barked again. When we reached the subject, she pounced on them with both feet, and then whirled round and stared at me expectantly, waiting for me to produce the reward. She couldn't have communicated more clearly and deliberately if she'd been wearing a flashing neon sign.

[poodlefan]

Coming from horses to dogs, I find it interesting that some dog folk still want to talk the language of dominance from a training perspective.

Too many dog trainers confuse physical dominance with social dominance IMO. The fact that you can force your dog into positions of submission does not make you a "leader", it makes you a bully. If you have to get physical with a dog as a routine part of your relationship tells me that the relationship isn't healthy from the dogs point of few.

Why must fear be part of the equation, especially in an animal bred for centuries to be biddable anyway?

Edited October 29, 2009 by poodlefan

[Diva]

she can communicate with humans can she?????.... How did you teach her to talk?

The vast majority of communcation between humans is non-verbal. Surely you don't think dogs have to be able to talk to communicate with us?

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

my dog communicates with me. not only do we understand each other but without words she knows things. for example, i can get up 10 times to make a cup of tea. but on the 11th time she jumps up and follows me....why?....because i have decided that whilst i get the cup of tea i will get her food ready? how did she know?

if i don't feel well my dog hangs around, licks my hair and sits very close? why? what does she get out of this? would she do this if she was intimidated by me?

i don't care if every dog expert in the world tells me that i need to intimidate my dog to get her obedience because i want more from my dog than obedience, the cost is just wouldn't be worth it to me. BTW, there is no way my dog would growl, snap, or do anything like that to me because it just doesn't cross her mind that this is a possible way for her to behave.

i have a well behaved dog who fits into my lifestyle and we get on...i am happy and this is enough for me.

to the OP, i think that you would get great help from a behaviouralist who could watch the interaction between you and your dog and who could help you ajust the balance so you and your dog can live better together.

[Cosmolo]

Heidi- do you really think dogs can't communicate with people? You're statement about "there are times that i intimidate him on purpose to reinforce that role". What do you mean on purpose- how and in what situations might you do this?

My dogs respect and trust me too- and i don't need to intimidate them to have that.

[Pete.the.dog]

to the OP, i think that you would get great help from a behaviouralist who could watch the interaction between you and your dog and who could help you ajust the balance so you and your dog can live better together.

Jaxx as I have said repeatedly, I am not in a situation where I can afford to get a behaviourist involved unless I think it's the only thing which will work. I understand that I have made mistakes with Pete, I got him at around 8 months with unknown history, so that's always going to be an extra struggle, but I have grown up with dogs in my home, and I don't believe I am incapable of improving the situation with some techniques that have been suggested.

On that, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to give there opinions, and - as I have said - I know I'm not expert, but - as you have all said - I'm the only one observing the situation, and most importantly, observing Pete. I am very confident that his snapping - which was clearly a warning for me not to grab him and drag him off the bed - is not going to escalate into him biting me. This is not because I'm assuming to know what he is capable of, but because I am ensuring he doesn't get into a situation where I walk into a room to find him on a bed. So, as the situation is at the moment, I do not see fit to call a behaviourist, when there are simple things that I was lagging with that can be altered. I understand that many of you will disagree with this, but it doesn't decrease my appreciation for your advice.

Obviously some of the advice/opinions have hit a nerve with people, as the inexperienced dog owner who has made mistakes in the past and is obviously not confident on handling issues on my own, I can reassure you all it never crossed my mind to try some of the more 'aggressive' techniques, such as scruffing etc, and I don't believe the posters intended those opinions to suggest I do that.

The NILIF and TOT is going well, I've told my housemates and their partners that if they want to pat Pete thats fine but to make him work for any attention, e.g. ask him to sit etc. His behaviour has subtly changed in the last few days, he is responding well to the targeting training, he is sleeping at my feet more often than he used to (which is a little flightening for me as I have a office chair with wheels and don't want to accidently run him over), and his recall in the home is improving in consistency. If he doesn't sit or come etc in a timely fashion, he gets an 'oh well' and I turn and walk away.

I hope that with time he will continue to improve, and that he doesn't 'warn' me again. Should he, I will call Mark Singer. I hope to give you all a happy follow up in the not-to-distant future

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

sorry pete.the.dog, i had forgotten you said that, my apologies.

there are some good dog obedience clubs around if you can find your way to them that are good and not too expensive (mine was $40 per year)

i do think you will be able to improve the situation on your own, i just find that sometimes if possible an outsiders view can bring a solution along quicker.

good luck with it all

[persephone]

The NILIF and TOT is going well, I've told my housemates and their partners that if they want to pat Pete thats fine but to make him work for any attention, e.g. ask him to sit etc. His behaviour has subtly changed in the last few days, he is responding well to the targeting training, he is sleeping at my feet more often than he used to (which is a little flightening for me as I have a office chair with wheels and don't want to accidently run him over), and his recall in the home is improving in consistency. If he doesn't sit or come etc in a timely fashion, he gets an 'oh well' and I turn and walk away.

well done to everyone .pete is lucky to have a 'family' who care enough to educate and love him !

[Diva]

The NILIF and TOT is going well, I've told my housemates and their partners that if they want to pat Pete thats fine but to make him work for any attention, e.g. ask him to sit etc. His behaviour has subtly changed in the last few days, he is responding well to the targeting training, he is sleeping at my feet more often than he used to (which is a little flightening for me as I have a office chair with wheels and don't want to accidently run him over), and his recall in the home is improving in consistency. If he doesn't sit or come etc in a timely fashion, he gets an 'oh well' and I turn and walk away.

I hope that with time he will continue to improve, and that he doesn't 'warn' me again. Should he, I will call Mark Singer. I hope to give you all a happy follow up in the not-to-distant future

Sounds good. I must admit that if one of mine had done that to me at 14 months, I would have told it not to be stupid in a tone of great contempt, slipped a lead over its head and put it outside for a while to think about the isolation from the pack that was all the reward that acting out got it. Then I'd have instituted an NILIF program and taught a reliable 'off' command. That would be more than enough to resolve the issue with my lot.

Not knowing your dog or you, I'd don't want to advise you to do what I do because your dog could be completely different to any of mine and the reaction you'd get to what I'd do could be completely different too. But its good you aren't going the hard and heavy approach, NILIF and TOT will most likely get you a long way down the track, unless more is going on than we can tell from your posts.

Good luck. I look forward to hearing of your progress.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Diva

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Aw, come on, PF - you, a dead roo, a poodle and a whippet - now THAT would make great television

There was a dead roo just up the end of my street two nights ago.. I'm sure the dogs would have loved it.

Roo offal carries hydatits though.. even cooked, I'd not eat it. :D

Darn it PF, a real trainer would dominate the hydatids as well!

edited 'cause I can't spell ;)

Edited October 29, 2009 by SkySoaringMagpie

[The Spotted Devil]

Aw, come on, PF - you, a dead roo, a poodle and a whippet - now THAT would make great television

There was a dead roo just up the end of my street two nights ago.. I'm sure the dogs would have loved it.

Roo offal carries hydatits though.. even cooked, I'd not eat it. ;)

Darn it PF, a real trainer would dominate the hytadits as well!

Bwahaha :D *wipes wine off computer screen*

[formydog]

two rules that have never failed me so far with dogs (and in no way do I profess to be an expert):

1) nothing in life is free

2) Dogs feet stay on he floor not on the furniture, dogs stay out of the bedrooms and kitchen

with my current dog, the 2nd rule meant that for he first time ever I had to use a crate initially to train her (along the lines of she only spent time out of the crate under supervision so that the 2nd rule was enforced!) my previous dogs have not neded a crate to achieve this. and I make sure he crate is a 'good place to be'

I have always loved and respected my dogs. The 2nd rule in my mind enforces the leadership you have in the relationship with your dog. Dog has has black and whie boundaries

Edited October 30, 2009 by formydog

[skip]

Hi , not sure if any advice I give would be useful as its late , just got home and I've had a few drinks.

However I would like to offer encouragement. It is lovely to see the ammount of effort you are at least putting into your dog. I have a rescue dog that I found a handful at first. Maybe just him would be OK but I went for the second ( glutton for punishment). They were so wild I did get in 2 professional trainers but that did only cost me 50$ for 2 trainers for a quick training session.

I got a few pointers and since then have learnt heaps. But my boy dog did nip me twice in the very beginning, once in the face. Once while he was on the dog bed and again when he was on my bed. The first I was totally unaware of the dangers of direct eye contact with a timid previously mistreated dog. And the second from bad judgement on my part.

But there is always a way to improve and now my dog is a changed boy. So much so that if I go to my bed now and he is on it, he leaps off and waits for permission to get on again. When my small girl is let out to toilet early in the am, when we get back to the bedroom, he leaps off the bed and waits for my signal. I am still half asleep so it is like - get back on the bed already. I have to be clear otherwise he waits to be sure I meant it.

This change just happened and it was after normal obedience and agility training. I control everything in their lives and they accept this. I used to let them go first thru doors or run in front of me. Now they wait did I let them out the door. Even more so if I think they would not stay, I demand they wait. I am a bit easy going sometimes ( read "inconsistent") but I do know a few more ways to improve their response to me as a leader.

Posting here is useful, books on behaviour rather than training such as "The other end of the leash" by Patricia McConnell.

Until you get a handle on your dog and his bed guarding behaviour, avoid the situation so that you don't practice bad behaviour. I'm sure you could make yourself exciting enough and look enough like a idiot that he would fly off that bed without any physical force.

Would be interested to know how you go. Good luck. Your dog is lucky he has you.

[Pete.the.dog]

Hi , not sure if any advice I give would be useful as its late , just got home and I've had a few drinks.

However I would like to offer encouragement. It is lovely to see the ammount of effort you are at least putting into your dog. I have a rescue dog that I found a handful at first. Maybe just him would be OK but I went for the second ( glutton for punishment). They were so wild I did get in 2 professional trainers but that did only cost me 50$ for 2 trainers for a quick training session.

I got a few pointers and since then have learnt heaps. But my boy dog did nip me twice in the very beginning, once in the face. Once while he was on the dog bed and again when he was on my bed. The first I was totally unaware of the dangers of direct eye contact with a timid previously mistreated dog. And the second from bad judgement on my part.

But there is always a way to improve and now my dog is a changed boy. So much so that if I go to my bed now and he is on it, he leaps off and waits for permission to get on again. When my small girl is let out to toilet early in the am, when we get back to the bedroom, he leaps off the bed and waits for my signal. I am still half asleep so it is like - get back on the bed already. I have to be clear otherwise he waits to be sure I meant it.

This change just happened and it was after normal obedience and agility training. I control everything in their lives and they accept this. I used to let them go first thru doors or run in front of me. Now they wait did I let them out the door. Even more so if I think they would not stay, I demand they wait. I am a bit easy going sometimes ( read "inconsistent") but I do know a few more ways to improve their response to me as a leader.

Posting here is useful, books on behaviour rather than training such as "The other end of the leash" by Patricia McConnell.

Until you get a handle on your dog and his bed guarding behaviour, avoid the situation so that you don't practice bad behaviour. I'm sure you could make yourself exciting enough and look enough like a idiot that he would fly off that bed without any physical force.

Would be interested to know how you go. Good luck. Your dog is lucky he has you.

Thanks for sharing your story skip and for your encouragement and advice