4 Mths Old & Still Having Accidents

[princesszelda]

Bella, our 4 month old Bernese Mountain dog continues to wee inside the house. We decided not to crate train her, and besides this issue, everthing else seems to be working out ok.

She wees inside about once a day on average (some days more, some days less). Admittedly, some of the times it is our fault for not taking her out often enough, but sometimes she'll do it even after we have just taken her out. Only occasionally does she alert us that she needs to go out the back by barking (but this is hard to differentiate from her "I want to play" bark). Since the weather got warmer, we have started to leave the back door open, but she still won't take herself out the back to wee. We always clean up the wee right away, and use a spray on it to get rid of the pee smell. She does not wee during the night (from about 11 - 6.30) so we know she can hold it that long...

I've never had a dog before - my husband hasn't had to deal with a puppy before. What are we doing wrong? Are we expecting too much of her?

Edited October 24, 2009 by princesszelda

[macka]

She wees inside about once a day on average (some days more, some days less). Admittedly, some of the times it is our fault for not taking her out often enough, but sometimes she'll do it even after we have just taken her out.

Are you actually standing with her to make sure she goes before coming back inside?

Only occasionally does she alert us that she needs to go out the back by barking (but this is hard to differentiate from her "I want to play" bark). Since the weather got warmer, we have started to leave the back door open, but she still won't take herself out the back to wee. We always clean up the wee right away, and use a spray on it to get rid of the pee smell. She does not wee during the night (from about 11 - 6.30) so we know she can hold it that long...

If she is still going inside on a daily basis even with the door open I'd say you really need to go back to basics: take her outside every 2 hours and always after play/food and don't come back inside again until she goes. When she goes where you want, give your chosen toileting command and praise like crazy.

I've never had a dog before - my husband hasn't had to deal with a puppy before. What are we doing wrong? Are we expecting too much of her?

It's not expecting too much of a 4 month old to be at least starting to look to go outside, particularly if you are leaving the door open. However clearly she hasn't quite got it yet so just make it as simple as possible - don't rely on her to take herself out yet, do it for her until she gets it.

[Serket]

Well if it's only wee and never poo inside, then that's progress

Gypsy still has the occasional accident inside at 4 months - usually at night time before bed, but we're down to maybe once or twice a week, and again, we've gotten slack with not taking her out ourselves because she's gotten quite reliable at taking herself out. She has a dog door, but when she was too small to use it we'd just leave the door open - lots of bugs, but we figured it was only for a short time.

If she's holding on overnight then crate training or not wouldn't make much difference assuming you'd only have her sleep in it overnight anyway.

When Gypsy was having more frequent accidents, if I took her out and she didn't go but I thought she needed to, I'd let her come back inside, and then take her right back out again - usually resulted in a wee.

Are there particular places where she wees? Gypsy only has accidents at the very end of the hallway now if she has them, we think it's because that part was blocked off the longest with a baby gate so it didn't click as being 'part of the house' in her head.

[Dogsfevr]

You need to go back to basics,she is missing a process that you have presumed she has mastered.

Weeing inside is normal for her .

If you where relying on her to alert you & you didnt always let her out she has considered her current training to be normal.

You now need to train her using the door & do the process from start.

I dare say she hadnt figured out what you expected when the door was shut so as per her puppy stage when you got to go you go.

In all reality at 4 months yes you could expect more BUT that is solely reliant on the training she has had & it seems she is confused

[luffy4688]

Our 4 month old pup Bailey still does the occasional accident. I'll say on average every 20-30 days? I reckon mostly it's due to our carelessness of not being vigilant enough though. He does let us know by standing by the door when he needs to go.

There was a time when we thought he had got it pretty well before it started going downhill. We went back to basics and it does seems to be working.

Edited October 24, 2009 by luffy4688

[BCPuppy]

We didnt crate either, she had a crate but preferred sleeping under a table. Marlin still has the odd lapse, maybe every couple of days. Only wee, no poo for 6 weeks now. Seems to be when there are more interesting things going on and she doesnt like to miss anything She has a dog door and generally takes herself out, I do go with her much of the time and have started click rewarding, which seems to reinforce things, I hope anyway. I dont have to take her out at night anymore, she takes herself. Her biggest problem is she gets excited when we come home, or meeting new people and does the submissive wee & roll over thing, which I dont really have a problem with, we make sure the greeting is outside,better than jumping on everyone I think ;) I am confident she will eventually 'get it' then I can put all my rugs back.

[Bjelkier]

My little girl is about the same age as your Berner and she does still have a few accidents inside but most of the time its our fault for being slack.

I have noticed that Alchemy wont alert just yet but she will hold for as long as she can, alerting seems to come a little later with my Samoyeds, not sure why.

We know when she has to go out due to what she has been doing, ie playing or eating. When she does whimper to go out we praise her heaps so she understands thats what we want.

I agree with the others, go back to the begining, she sounds confussed and the only say to fix this is starting again.

[corvus]

Our four month old puppy still has accidents as well. I would say mostly because the door is closed or because it's come on very suddenly. As long as he is improving I'm not worried about it. I leave the door open and he takes himself out most of the time. If he's been playing it will often come on quite suddenly and he just looks around for the nearest place to go. If I'm doing my job and watching him, I can remind him to do it outside. I always go with him so I know he's done it and give him praise. He does alert when he needs to go, but not always. Kivi almost never did and still doesn't. Erik has been easier. Some dogs don't catch on as quickly.

It helps to have areas where they spend a lot of time and fence off other areas. They like to go in places they don't spend a lot of time, so if they can't get to them, but can get to outside, they will usually go outside.

[beenie]

I'm really glad to read that ours isn't the only 4 month old pup still having trouble with going inside the house!!

Our problem is slightly different in that we adopted Willow 3 weeks ago, up till then she'd been home alone outside for most of the day so hadn't really been intensively housetrained... so making the transition to being home with us home all day and allowed in the house more is her problem. She is getting better, but still does wees inside every few days.... just doesn't seem to know to tell us she needs to go outside.... We did start by crate training her, and she picked up that going outside in the 'spot' was good and will do that if we take her aat the right time, but also still does it inside rather than asking to go out. She also poos whereever she likes.... which is not where I'd like :D

So, you're not alone, even if I have no advice for you lol!

[princesszelda]

Ok, so the general concensous seems to be back to basics. Here is what we are planning to do - any comments or suggestions are welcome.

1. Take Bella outside after every play, sleep and eat (or every hour or so).

2. Reward with lots of praise/treats when she wees outside.

3. Clicker training? We did a bit of this, but weren't very consistant. Can someone please clarify if we are doing this in the right order: 1) Bella wees outside, 2) click (while weeing or after weeing?), 3) treat. Now, is the click is supposed to get associated with weeing or with getting the treat?

Anything else? Do we continue to bring her outside after she wees inside? How can we encourage her to alert us when she needs to wee?

[corvus]

Toilet training is one of the few things I haven't trained Erik with the clicker. I have no even done many treats with him. He really doesn't want to eat while he's in the middle of toileting.

But if you do want to click, I would click while she is weeing. Preferably at the start. She should associate the click with the reward.

[princesszelda]

I'm really glad to read that ours isn't the only 4 month old pup still having trouble with going inside the house!!

Our problem is slightly different in that we adopted Willow 3 weeks ago, up till then she'd been home alone outside for most of the day so hadn't really been intensively housetrained... so making the transition to being home with us home all day and allowed in the house more is her problem. She is getting better, but still does wees inside every few days.... just doesn't seem to know to tell us she needs to go outside.... We did start by crate training her, and she picked up that going outside in the 'spot' was good and will do that if we take her aat the right time, but also still does it inside rather than asking to go out. She also poos whereever she likes.... which is not where I'd like :D

So, you're not alone, even if I have no advice for you lol!

We should start a support group Beenie!

We're lucky - Bella has only ever pooed inside once (when we first got her).

[Dogsfevr]

You need to understand not every dog will alert you so you need to either use a doggy door or leave one open so she can get the concept quickly or be very observant

All our pups when sold are trained to use a doggy door from 6 weeks

[macka]

If you're going to use a clicker the idea is to click during the desired behaviour. A marker word and plenty of praise also works though - keep a few treats in your pockets so you have them handy when she goes.

[Erny]

If you're going to use a clicker the idea is to click during the desired behaviour. A marker word and plenty of praise also works though - keep a few treats in your pockets so you have them handy when she goes.

I've not ever used the clicker (nor suggested it be used) for toilet training and doubt that I'd ever do so when pup is mid-stream. Perhaps others have tried it and found it to be successful, but IMO the sound of the clicker could prove to distract the pup from the 'job at hand'. Just a quiet, non-distracting, just audible (to the pup) toileting word that you're training to pair to the action (eg. "quick quick") is about all I'd suggest be used when pup is in the midst of a wee. More than that and you run the very real chance of pup forgetting about weeing and not emptying the tank, so to speak. Save the "good puppy!!" and treat for once the pup has finished toileting.

[BCPuppy]

Ok, so the general concensous seems to be back to basics. Here is what we are planning to do - any comments or suggestions are welcome.

1. Take Bella outside after every play, sleep and eat (or every hour or so).

2. Reward with lots of praise/treats when she wees outside.

3. Clicker training? We did a bit of this, but weren't very consistant. Can someone please clarify if we are doing this in the right order: 1) Bella wees outside, 2) click (while weeing or after weeing?), 3) treat. Now, is the click is supposed to get associated with weeing or with getting the treat?

Anything else? Do we continue to bring her outside after she wees inside? How can we encourage her to alert us when she needs to wee?

I click as soon as she is finished, I do softly praise her as she is weeing, but before using the clicker she would finish weeing and then wander off before I got to her with praise/ treat, so I dont think she was associating the treat with doing the deed, she didnt like me being close to her when she was weeing so my timing just wasnt good enough. Only started using the clicker about 10 days ago and I am amazed at how all of the training is so much more positive, she seems to understand much quicker and with less confusion. IMO Whatever works, each pup is different.

[corvus]

The problem with clicking when they are in the process of doing their thing is that they might be like Erik, who's like "Argh, get the food away from me; I'm peeing!" He don't want to eat when he's toileting. It's gross.

For him I would say my cue for toileting when he first started to go, then we'd play a game when he was done. He seems to think it's all a bit weird, but he definitely gets that once he's gone he's allowed to run inside out of the rain! I have to carry him outside when it's raining, and then he tries to run back in, so he goes into the fenced yard at the back until he's done his thing. He sure gets fast when it's wet. I swear he goes even when he doesn't have to just to get back inside.

[princesszelda]

So, if we are going to click, click when Bella is finished weeing? We tried a couple of times yesterday to click while she was weeing, but it just made her stop cause she wanted the treat!

[Erny]

We tried a couple of times yesterday to click while she was weeing, but it just made her stop cause she wanted the treat!

For a puppy, just the sound of the click (whether pup is clicker trained or not) would often be enough to distract. Heavens, I remember being out with my pup in the dead of winter, freezing my little bawootzies off, wishing he'd hurry up with it. Finally, he sniffed around and began to squat ..... when a leaf blew in the wind. I cursed that leaf (even though I love the innocent curiosity of pups) because my boy forgot about pee'ing and I had to spend the next 5 minutes or so (felt like a lifetime) attracting him to 'used' patches to encourage him to get his busy little mind back on the job.

So, if we are going to click, click when Bella is finished weeing?

IF you really want to use the clicker for this, then yes. Personally, I didn't find I needed the use of a clicker for this. I had plenty of time to prepare to tell my pup he was good and offer him a treat, so I didn't need anything to improve my timing for that. Also there is a very good chance you're going to get caught out without the clicker on you in those unpredictable and unexpected circumstances.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Erny

[Staranais]

If you're going to use a clicker the idea is to click during the desired behaviour. A marker word and plenty of praise also works though - keep a few treats in your pockets so you have them handy when she goes.

I've not ever used the clicker (nor suggested it be used) for toilet training and doubt that I'd ever do so when pup is mid-stream. Perhaps others have tried it and found it to be successful, but IMO the sound of the clicker could prove to distract the pup from the 'job at hand'. Just a quiet, non-distracting, just audible (to the pup) toileting word that you're training to pair to the action (eg. "quick quick") is about all I'd suggest be used when pup is in the midst of a wee. More than that and you run the very real chance of pup forgetting about weeing and not emptying the tank, so to speak. Save the "good puppy!!" and treat for once the pup has finished toileting.

I have found this too, with the clicker. I tried it once or twice with my last dog, but being clicked was so exciting that it seemed to interrupt the flow, so to speak!

I found that quiet, calm verbal praise during the act was far better, escalating to a more excited squeal and reward when they were done (the neighbours must have thought I was crazy!)