Argh...crappy Trainer

[Guest Tess32]

Argh, can't believe I have same problem again.

After a year long absence going to obedience club, I rejoined today. I don't like training on sundays and this is one saturday afternoons, so all good.

I end up in the class with the same trainer I hated from last time, and yet this is the class you're in for quite a while!

I *hate* him. He's a condescending dickhead who thinks all dogs should be tough and accept corrections constantly. It's Noah's FIRST day back after so long and he takes him

to demo something. He tries to pull him around and Noah balks at it, and starts rearing back. Instead of changing his tactic, he tries to force him more, until Noah just slips his collar. Then he says "oh well that wouldn't happen on a check chain" and that's he's 'very timid'. WTF? He just doesn't like dickheads forcing him into positions out of the blue.

(it all happened so quick, otherwise I would have stopped him).

So what do I do? I like the rest of the club and trainers, it's just this ONE guy. I don't know whether talking to him will help or talking to someone else?

Or just training how I want to IN his class and ignoring the crap he pukes out.

[Kirty]

Can you change classes? I've had some shockers too and I just switch to another class.

[huski]

I think you have a few options;

- Find a club you prefer (if you're in Melbourne, have you thought of looking at Kelpie-i's club?)

- Talk to the club president about the trainer

- Continue training there but do your own thing and ignore the trainer, which can be hard to do especially if he's going to take your dog for demos without your permission. I would absolutely not be comfortable with a trainer I didn't trust taking my dog, so I would be inclined to chat to the club President about it or to find a new club

[Guest Tess32]

I'm not sure about changing classes. They go up in stages as far as I know. As I hadn't been since he was young, they first put me into Beginners 2. WE were past that so in the middle of class I got told to go to Beginners 4, jumping two classes. He is one of those trainers who thinks it's funny to talk to everyone like they are stupid.

It's possible they rotate ever week and it was just a coincidence I had him last time.

Everyone else is so nice, I don't want to leave over this one moron.

I guess as you say Huski, my only option is to talk to someone or do my own thing (kinda) in class.

[Guest Tess32]

Hmm, Frankston dog club now trains on saturdays, I guess I could try them. Last time I saw them they were still very 'learn with corrections' based though.

[Staff'n'Toller]

I would never hand my dog over for a demo to any trainer I didn't know thoroughly well. It's hard but you just have to be assertive.

I can sympathise there is one like that at the club I was training at (purely just to get my dog out and practice some SFE) seriously if it were me and I walked down to class and saw him, I'd just skip it.

You need to check if the trainers rotate, if they don't you need to decide whether you can stick it out with this guy until you move up or if your money would be better spent elsewhere. I agree with huski though, you may be much much happier at a private club where the quality control of the instructors is tighter.

[Staranais]

Tess, can you join the club as a member, but not join a class - just come along on club night and do your own thing? Just use the other dogs as a distraction?

That's what I do. The club I attend know me a little (I trialled at club level there with my previous dog), so are quite happy to have me and pup turn up and do our own thing at the edge of the field, as long as we don't disturb anyone else. Tell them you're working on focus, or fear issues, or whatever.

I would not hand my dog over for a demo either. Not to anyone. And I would politely refuse if a trainer asked to do a demo on my dog. As far as I'm concerned she works for me (not for anyone else if she doesn't want to), and it's my job to protect her from other people (not let them correct her, unless she's a real little shit toward them in which case I'll correct her myself). JMO.

[Guest Tess32]

I will give it one more go, see if the trainers rotate. It's strange cos everyone else seemed to like him, whereas to me all he does is belittle everyone and every dog.

If I decide to quit, I wonder if I can get my money back, heh.

Staranais - Doubt you could do that, doesn't seem that kind of club. Other than this one guy, it seems perfectly fine. I just happen to be at that level!

How do you say "don't take my dog" without putting them offside so much they just ignore you in class anyway?

Other than that mishap, Noah was fine. He worked really well for a dog who hadnt' been in such a long while.

[Staranais]

Staranais - Doubt you could do that, doesn't seem that kind of club. Other than this one guy, it seems perfectly fine. I just happen to be at that level!

How do you say "don't take my dog" without putting them offside so much they just ignore you in class anyway?

That's a pity. I wasn't sure if our club would let me, but luckily they did. So perhaps it's worth just asking your club? I was prepared to go to the other dog club in town if they said no, mind you!

As for how do you say that to an instructor without upsetting them, I guess I'm saying, I'd rather put them offside than have them take my leash. My wee girl is a sensitive soul, and one good correction could take weeks to repair. Plus I really don't like other people rewarding her, since I'm trying to aim more for neutralisation than socialisation with other people. So I just say "sorry, I don't like other people to handle my dog".

I guess you could have a polite white-lie type excuse ready if you wanted, though? Something like "I don't like people handling my dog since it distracts her for the rest of the class?" or "I'm working on her focusing on me when we're around other people, so I'd rather not have someone else reward her at the moment", or etc? Or just tell them that "no means no!"

Edited October 24, 2009 by Staranais

[tlc]

I dont think I could work in a class where Im not on the same page as the trainier as far as training methods I prefer and that suit my dogs better. The club Im at, as an assistant trainer is very dedicated to only the modern method and anyone that wants to use corrective and punishment methods is not welcome. So with my club it is kind of the opposite, we have had a few come through that have been in the same situation as you at the other club in town and have loved the way we train and it has been great for thier dog.

I can totally see where your coming from cause not all methods of training suit every different dog and also I have seen a few come thought that have needed a firmer hand and been made aware of the other club and sent their way because it will suit thier dog better. It sounds to me like this trainier is just about his way or the highway and if he hadn't been man handling your dog and putting him in an uncomfortable position he wouldn't have slipped his collar. Shouldn't it be about the trainers recognizing what they dogs can and cant cope with. I think listen to your intincts and steer clear of this trainer. Maybe even give the other club a go if your able, it might be the best thing you ever did.

[TerraNik]

I agree with the others.

Personally, I would never hand my dog over to anyone regardless of what they wanted to show me and how well I knew them. I just don't do it.

I would be keeping a far, far distance from this 'trainer'.

[huski]

I dont think I could work in a class where Im not on the same page as the trainier as far as training methods I prefer and that suit my dogs better. The club Im at, as an assistant trainer is very dedicated to only the modern method and anyone that wants to use corrective and punishment methods is not welcome. So with my club it is kind of the opposite, we have had a few come through that have been in the same situation as you at the other club in town and have loved the way we train and it has been great for thier dog.

I don't think when used appropriately that there is anything wrong with or outdated about corrections or punishment, after all even a stern 'ah ah' is a correction.

I don't agree with using corrections/punishment to teach dogs a new behaviour, IMO that's just unfair.

[tlc]

I dont think I could work in a class where Im not on the same page as the trainier as far as training methods I prefer and that suit my dogs better. The club Im at, as an assistant trainer is very dedicated to only the modern method and anyone that wants to use corrective and punishment methods is not welcome. So with my club it is kind of the opposite, we have had a few come through that have been in the same situation as you at the other club in town and have loved the way we train and it has been great for thier dog.

I don't think when used appropriately that there is anything wrong with or outdated about corrections or punishment, after all even a stern 'ah ah' is a correction.

I don't agree with using corrections/punishment to teach dogs a new behaviour, IMO that's just unfair.

I totally agree with you, I am a big fan of Cesar Millans and some of his pack behavioural methods and a few of his other techniqiues have worked wonders with my dogs. Thats also why I also said in my post that some of the dogs we have seen need a firmer hand and are directed to the place that can teach them in the appropriate manner, it is just us as a club do not teach these methods. Some of the techniquies I use on my lot (hardly at all now because they have worked wonders) would be frowned apon by our head trainer but what she doesnt know wont hurt her (she is not a Cesar fan) I do whats best for me and my dogs and I dont care what anyone else says. Like you husky I think when corrections and punishments used are well timed and used appropriatley there is nothing wrong with them!!

Just wanted to add the few corrections and "Cesar" techniques I have used on my lot I dont need to use in classes as they have been trained using the modern method, so it is not an issue for me to use the methods our training school condone. I know this sounds like a but of a double edged sword but I have found a happy medium between the two and it works for me!! and thats what Im trying to say about fiding the right method that suits the individual dog. Like in Tess's case Noah, didnt appreciate the manhandling and most dogs that arent used to that wouldnt. I know mine would hate it and probly react in the same way that Noah did.

Edited October 24, 2009 by tlc