Halti Vs Harness?

[huski]

We have to respect that sometimes people need something right now to help them out. Training takes time, and if you're a busy person with kids chances are you're still going to have to walk the dog with the kids in the meantime. As Nik has said, she IS working on training and focus. In the interim, an anti-pull harness or head collar will, presumably, stop the pulling so pup doesn't get to practise it. That is a great start to me.

I agree that she needs some assistance which is why I think having some one on one training would be hugely beneficial, at least then the trainer can assess the dog and if a tool is needed can fit the right one properly

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I have a dog that likes to pull

She is very good at heel in training but just going for a walk - when we come to a road, training, slip collar and etc all that goes out the window. She's getting better but for now, something that gives more control than a flat collar and doesn't strangle or risk neck injury like a slip collar is good.

I used the gentle leader nose band thing for a while. It works, you watch a video and experiment in the back yard to get a reliable fit (vet assistant was no use here). You have to fit it super tight behind the back of the head and in a puppy that would require regular checking and even the product blub says not for puppy under 6 months old.

I ended up using a front attach harness similar to the premier easy walk (same people as make the gentle leader). Mine is called a softouchconcepts sensible. Not sure where you get them in Melbourne, you'd have to send the parent website an email to ask. Mine was fitted on my dog by a delta trainer that sells them and she showed me how to adjust it as puppy grows and how to check the fit is correct.

http://www.softouchconcepts.com/

The front attach harnesses - rotate the dog around the attach point when they try to pull so the pulling effort is deflected and not as effective. This would definitely stop a lunging dog without strangling it and is far less likely to injure the dog than something attached to its head or neck. They can still pull a bit, but the difference for me - is going from two hands firmly on the lead rope, and feet planted to one hand on the lead rope with firm light grip.

Back attach harnesses work like sled harnesses, you wouldn't need to push the pram at all...you could probably get in too and be carried along by a pulling dog.

[corvus]

Just to offer a balanced perspective, I use ordinary harnesses with a D ring on the back and I have never found them to encourage pulling. Given, I haven't used them on a dog that pulls a lot, but that has been my experience so far anyway.

The softouchconcepts harness sounds good.

[poodlefan]

S&T:

It's not difficult at all to fit a head collar to a growing dog, they have plenty of adjustment and when you need to move up sizes you do so.

The issue as I see it is not the fitting of a head collar to a pup, but the impact on the pup physically (they can lead to neck issues) AND the real need for this level of control on a very young puppy.

There seems to be a common fallacy that trainers just whack on a head collar or no-pull harness and send the client on their way and that is definitely NOT the case.

Maybe not but dog owners do it every day. There is no trainer involved here.. just an owner and one that proposes to have this pup walked in head collar by children. There is no way I'd ever allow a child to control a pup with a head collar... they don't have the understanding as to how the collar affects the pup and the potential for injury is too great. I'm not real keen on kids controlling dogs with head collars at all.. kids can be rough.

Walk the puppy yourself until she has better manners OR attach a second leash to a flat collar and allow the child to take the second one.

Rest assured a motivated pup will lunge and pull on the head collar, not only learning the wrong lessons but potentially doing itself permanent damage in the process.

Pups need to be taught manners before children can safely control them. Best Mum do the walking with the kids helping out on a second lead as suggested. Pup will be safer and Mum will have control.

Edited October 26, 2009 by poodlefan

[Quickasyoucan]

S&T:

It's not difficult at all to fit a head collar to a growing dog, they have plenty of adjustment and when you need to move up sizes you do so.

The issue as I see it is not the fitting of a head collar to a pup, but the impact on the pup physically (they can lead to neck issues) AND the real need for this level of control on a very young puppy.

There seems to be a common fallacy that trainers just whack on a head collar or no-pull harness and send the client on their way and that is definitely NOT the case.

There is no trainer involved here.. just an owner and one that proposes to have this pup walked in head collar by children. There is no way I'd ever allow a child to control a pup with a head collar... they don't have the understanding as to how the collar affects the pup and the potential for injury is too great. I'm not real keen on kids controlling dogs with head collars at all.. kids can be rough.

Walk the puppy yourself until she has better manners OR attach a second leash to a flat collar and allow the child to take the second one.

Rest assured a motivated pup will lunge and pull on the head collar, not only learning the wrong lessons but potentially doing itself permanent damage in the process.

Pups need to be taught manners before children can safely control them. Best Mum do the walking with the kids helping out on a second lead as suggested. Pup will be safer and Mum will have control.

Sound advice as usual PF.

I have done the second lead thing quite a few times with nieces and friends kids who wanted to "have a go" in a quiet place walking my dog. No way would I ever let them walk him alone as one pull in the wrong direction and it could all go horribly wrong.

I have also seen so many dogs fighting headcollars, I just can't see how people can say it is an "excellent tool" and it most definitely IS and adversive.

I used to use a harness on my dog, just gave him more traction to pull

Since the pup is relatively young if it were me I would be going for a one on one with a good trainer and seeing if I could put a program in place that really worked. Nothing to stop the kids having a practice once that has been established in the back garden, but I wouldn't risk it in public with young kids.

[kiesha09]

You can buy the softtouch concepts sensible harness from Bodil Schou-Hansen who owns Adelaide Pet Dog Training as she distributes them here in Australia. I'm sure she would organise to send one to you if you were interested.

The sensible harnesses are much better than the Easy Walk harness because they do not restrict your dogs leg movement (although could it you left it on while free running off-lead but then you should never leave any harness on your dog when it is free running off lead IMO). I was part of a road test team who tested a whole range of no pull tools such as the Sensible harness, Easy walk harness, sporn harness, gentle leader, infin8 head coller etc. For my own dog who was a BIG puller the sensible came out on top.

But this tool doesn't replace training at all. It just provided me with more opportunity to reinforce the desired behaviour whilst also keeping the undesired behaviour at amanageable level. It also reduced any discomfort the dog experienced by pulling on a flat collar around the neck.

Nik, whether you use any kind of training tool (head halter or harness) if it were me in your situation I would work more on training your puppy without the children involved. Work on the loose leash walking and gradually increasing the distraction until she can walk with your boys on their scooters and bikes etc (which is highly highly distracting for your pup, not sure my 2 year old dog would be at that level yet). Once this is really reliable then introduce having the children walk your pup.

And remember... loose lead walking is one of the hardest behaviours you will master and it will talk time to train.

[Nik]

S

There is no trainer involved here.. just an owner and one that proposes to have this pup walked in head collar by children. There is no way I'd ever allow a child to control a pup with a head collar... they don't have the understanding as to how the collar affects the pup and the potential for injury is too great. I'm not real keen on kids controlling dogs with head collars at all.. kids can be rough.

Walk the puppy yourself until she has better manners OR attach a second leash to a flat collar and allow the child to take the second one.

Just to clarify, I have never said that our pup will be walked in a head collar by my children. I have simply asked for recommendations, and it would be for ME to use when walking with all my boys on bikes or scooter, something that doesn't happen on a regular occurrance.

I do have a trainer for my pup - we've been going to puppy school since she was 12 weeks, and moved on to what they term "super puppy", which includes the beginning of bridge training, something I'm finding very useful with such an intelligent pup! My puppy school was not just socialisation, but "real" training. I have also joined an obedience club last sunday, and beginning in the introduction group I can see that the training I/we have done so far is a LOT more than any of the other owners.

This is not my first dog, but she is the first I've had as a pup since I've been an adult.

Most of the time Annie's walks are done with either just myself or myself and a pram, and we work consistently on loose leash and also heel work. This was just a general enquiry as to whether either would be appropriate, and I'm getting from the very opinionated responses that neither is. Thanks all for your time and input.

[Got Spots]

That is just the forum - you get lots of opinions then you work out what is best for you

I have tried quite a few items with varying success:

This link has quite a lot of good info - http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...&hl=harness

Also quite opinionated

- I quite like the harmony harness - with the lead you can hook it onto her collar and her harness and when she pulls you can redirect her back to your side. I found it worked quite nicely for my 8kg steam train of a whippet

- in the above link I have a list of stuff I have tried ( beware I collect things )

- I also really like the Pack leader collar - its a collar with a bit that goes over the nose I found if she pulled then I would slip it over her nose for extra control until she settled, then slip it off

- one other suggestion - a clicker - play the look at that game - she looks at something, you then click and treat. But first you have to charge the clicker by just clicking and treating if she is not already clicker trained.

You can also click and treat her for being attentive to you - PM me if i haven't explained this well

People in the forum are just trying to do what is right - but ultimately it is your choice, just gather the info

[Nik]

That is just the forum - you get lots of opinions then you work out what is best for you

Yes, I've quickly figured this out

- one other suggestion - a clicker - play the look at that game - she looks at something, you then click and treat. But first you have to charge the clicker by just clicking and treating if she is not already clicker trained.

You can also click and treat her for being attentive to you - PM me if i haven't explained this well

I have a clicker, but my trainers have suggested using a word instead - in this case "yes". That way, you never accidentally leave it at home or misplace it! It seems to work just as well.

People in the forum are just trying to do what is right - but ultimately it is your choice, just gather the info

Thanks, I'll check out the link. I'm no good at doing the search thingy.

[huski]

Nik, I use 'yes' too. I find it works really well for Daisy

Re; your kids walking the dog, I think the topic came up in reference to you saying your boys can't walk her because she pulls on the leash.

Edited October 26, 2009 by huski

[Nik]

Nik, I use 'yes' too. I find it works really well for Daisy

Re; your kids walking the dog, I think the topic came up in reference to you saying your boys can't walk her because she pulls on the leash.

Ooops, so I did.

I just wasn't envisioning them walking her in the halti - that would be something I would use. I don't really like them anyway - too many dogs I've seen fight them. My friend has one for their boxer, and they use it incorrectly - leave it on her with the lead attached when they let her go in the backyard . Poor thing, she's a crazy pup, but I'm sure that thing sends her crazier.