Teaching Really Effective Recall

[shells]

I cant get into obedience until January when my dogs will be 10 months old (I missed out on a spot this term). We did do puppy pre-school and I have borrowed some books and done some reading/training with them.

Everything has been going well except for the last 2 days.

We regularly walk in an offleash area. After getting a good recall with them and meeting some other people and their dogs(who I have got to know and trust) I can let them have some offleash time BUT they have now discovered that there is a lake at the park and the last 2 times we have visited they have run off on me (a good 200 meters away) to go for a swim.

They are obviously having the time of there lives and I have become meaningless. There is now no more off leash time but what can I do to retrain a reliable recall?

Is there a DVD or training package anyone recomends that will get me started until January?

Thanks

[dogdude]

If its advanced obedience that you want to eventually aim for, and your dog is ball/toy motivated, then I recommend Ivan Balabanov dvds, (Clear Communication) and (The Game). Not cheap, but well worth the money. (not really suitable for toy breeds though).

If you put too much time into doggy play, that will become their excitement centre. You need to be in control of that, inorder to have have a reliable recall.

[huski]

I am doing a drive training program with Steve at K9 Force and so far Daisy's recall has improved hugely. I have no doubt that we will be able to get that reliable recall! (hard to do with a scent hound!)

[corvus]

As usual, I'll put a vote in for Leslie Nelson's Really Reliable Recall dvd. It's very good.

Seeing as you are not starting from scratch, perhaps you can make less work for yourself with a bit of premack? You could use a release to the lake as a reward. Assuming you don't mind them going into the lake. And assuming they will come out again once they've gone in.

One thing I did with Kivi earlier on was to go with him when he wanted to explore something new. If he was really interested, I'd be like "Hey Kivi, let's go check it out!" and run off with him instead of trying to compete directly with it. Over time, he came to prefer hanging out with me and now he's much easier to call away from interesting things. I'm not sure if that's just the recall work we've done, or if it's because he's matured a little and just naturally prefers to be with me, or if it helped to do interesting things with him.

[Staranais]

Seeing as you are not starting from scratch, perhaps you can make less work for yourself with a bit of premack? You could use a release to the lake as a reward. Assuming you don't mind them going into the lake. And assuming they will come out again once they've gone in.

That's a good idea. You can keep them on a long line to ensure that they do come back before you release them to the pool.

[shells]

If you put too much time into doggy play, that will become their excitement centre. You need to be in control of that, inorder to have have a reliable recall.

This is my problem (I have never thought of that before). They adore playing with other dogs. Even though they socialise daily with other dogs you would think they had never seen another dog in their life (happiness not aggression) when we get to the dog park - I figured I was doing the right thing socialising them but maybe I didnt go about it the right way - Is there anything extra I should do training wise to help correct this? Training at the obedience club will atleast be around other dogs so I am hoping that helps.

use a release to the lake as a reward. Assuming you don't mind them going into the lake. And assuming they will come out again once they've gone in. tongue.gif

They do come out when I call (after they have jumped in). I dont mind the lake swimming (they are Poodles after all) though it is a bit dirty and stinky LOL

Edited October 24, 2009 by shells

[corvus]

I think you need to be careful with your socialising, but I don't think there's any reason why you shouldn't let them play on a daily basis if you like. You just have to make going to the park a little about you and them as well as other dogs. My dog LOVES playing with other dogs and can even get a bit fixated. He finds it difficult to concentrate on anything but the dog he hasn't greeted yet. All the same, I can call him away from other dogs in the dog park and hold his attention for a session of heeling and run him through the things he knows and he won't even look at the other dogs. I think you just have to make doing things like that a bit of a habit. I have a toy I swing around for Kivi for times when he is wound up and badly wants to talk to a dog that probably doesn't want to talk to him. Chasing the toy and a game of tug with me deals with all that pent up energy and frustration and also gives me an opportunity to show him that I still exist and am still worth hanging around with even at dog parks. Kivi is getting better all the time, and while he still likes to be the social butterfly, checking in with every human and dog he lays eyes on, he is usually happy to leave everything at a word from me to come and hang out with me for a while. I give him lots of chicken and play with him and stuff. I'm happy for him to be the social butterfly and have not found this has been particularly difficult to get around.

[fainty_girl]

Are your dogs allowed to swim in the lake? Is it part of the dog park? If they are allowed and you trust them offlead maybe you could take them directly to the lake first, let them swim and tire themselves out, then work on recall after their swim.

A tip I got of DOL was to use tug-of-war for recall and this has helped with Tilly. I do a certain whistle and if she starts running back to me I take a rope toy out of my bag and playing tug-of-war to reward her, or occasionally I bring out her favourite squeaky ball and let her have a chew. Sometimes I also walk in the opposite direction from Tilly and she will come running after me. Positive reinforcement works well with Tilly as well when she comes back to me...eg. giving her a pat and telling her "good girl".

My other dog Jessie has a really effective recall with treats and will always recall for a schmacko. I just have to call out her name or the word schmacko and she will run back immediately.

Edited October 25, 2009 by fainty_girl

[Odin-Genie]

A tip I got of DOL was to use tug-of-war for recall and this has helped with Tilly. I do a certain whistle and if she starts running back to me I take a rope toy out of my bag and playing tug-of-war to reward her

That's a great tip fainty_girl. I have recall issues with Odin (elkhound) when he is in a highly excited mode. Food treats don't work. I could stand with a piece of fresh roasted chicken and he would ignore me. But recently I have started playing with him when he comes to me and that seems to work well. I'll try the tug-of-war trick. I'm 100% sure it'll work since he loves tug-of-war.

[fainty_girl]

A tip I got of DOL was to use tug-of-war for recall and this has helped with Tilly. I do a certain whistle and if she starts running back to me I take a rope toy out of my bag and playing tug-of-war to reward her

That's a great tip fainty_girl. I have recall issues with Odin (elkhound) when he is in a highly excited mode. Food treats don't work. I could stand with a piece of fresh roasted chicken and he would ignore me. But recently I have started playing with him when he comes to me and that seems to work well. I'll try the tug-of-war trick. I'm 100% sure it'll work since he loves tug-of-war.

Tilly is the same...when she's super excited out of the house she's not all that interested in food. She loves tug-of-war and it has definitely helped with her recall. She's not perfect by any means, but it has definitely made a difference.

It is also handy to use if I notice something nearby that I want to keep her away from (eg. a skateboarder or a dog on the other side of the road, etc). Distracting her with tug-of-war works well.

[shells]

Thanks everyone for your help. I will try the tug toy and a squeaky toy and take them speperately to the oval when I know it will be quiet and work on it. My female has good recall but the male doesnt and when he decides to go she follows most times I can atleast get her back but not him so its on the leash now until it is sorted.

How do I curb their enthusiasm for other dogs?

[corvus]

How do I curb their enthusiasm for other dogs?

Hahaha, good question.

I think it depends on how enthusiastic they are. And whether you can top it by increasing their enthusiasm for you. I always tend to think "how can I be better than that" rather than "how can I make that less cool", but there are times when it's REALLY hard to compete with something and times when you just don't want them to find something cool full stop. Like chasing cars, for example.

If they can't even hear you when other dogs are nearby, you've got to find a way to get their brain to switch on again. For Kivi, this was as simple as waiting for a minute or so. Other dogs you'll be waiting a long time.

If they can hear you and have just decided other dogs are better, you might be able to recover just with lots of conditioning. Call their name, reward, call their name, reward, keep the reward rate high out and about so they come to always be listening for you saying their name. It has worked for Kivi, and my rewards do not compete on their own with other dogs for him. It only works because he's so used to hearing his name and coming over for a reward that he doesn't think much about it. And because I made an effort to be a fun person for him to hang out with.

If you do just want them to find dogs less interesting, the best way I think to do that is to flood them with dogs without letting them interact with any of the dogs. Sitting around a dog park for 20 minutes without getting to talk to any dogs is pretty boring. But just when they're getting over the whole thing, you can do some training with them and suddenly you are really interesting. Just be careful you don't make them uber frustrated by restricting dog access when they can see the other dogs for themselves. You want them to get bored, not worked up.