mokhahouse Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Took Mokha to the vet today, looks like we are off to the ortho vet again with his right elbow this time but his reaction to his vaccination has me worried. Last year when he had his vaccination he had some significant reactions within minutes of the vaccination and became very unwell on the drive home so we had to go back for another injection to help this. This year he was given the shot before having his yearly vaccination but still within seconds this time began to jump around and scratch and was quite distressed. Thankfully it passed in about 1/2 an hour or so. He needs to be vaccinated to attend obedience class but I am worried how he will be with his next one. I am wondering if anyone else has any experience with this?Did your dog get worse every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 No experience with a progressive condition, but I have had a dog which died on the vet's table within 5 minutes of being vaccinated. There is a LOT of information out there about reactions to vaccinations. My opinion - do NOT vaccinate him again. Get a vets certificate stating the reaction, get some facts together and submit it to the committee of the club (along with the news that 3 yearly "boosters" are now the accepted protocol), and offer to have him titre tested if this is insufficient for them. Failing that, I would find a more accomodating club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I wouldn't vaccinate him again. I am surprised the vet even suggested it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I agree with Sandra. If your OB club doesn't accept titre testing, find one that does. It's just not worth it. You may be surprised that they do accept titres - you just have to ask. My dogs don't have reactions to vaccinations, but I am so passionate about over-vaccination that even though I love my OB club, I would leave at the drop of a hat if they 'forced' vaccinations (by not accepting titre testing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I agree with everybody. There is a lot of problems related with over-vaccinations, that's why they are officially not recommended yearly anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mokhahouse Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I will definitely ask about titre testing as I am really not wanting to vaccinate every year, maybe 3 yearly would be ok. He has enough going on healthwise with his joints. I will ask at my club this weekend what their opinion is on this. I wonder if it is only one component of the vaccination that is causing this. I know with my nephew it was only one part of the childrens vaccination causing the allergic reaction so they gave him this in much smaller doses.I will discuss with my vet not vaccinating yearly, see what she says.Thanks for the ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I wouldn't vaccinate him again. I am surprised the vet even suggested it. Same view here. And as others have suggested - get a Vet Certificate which confirms that vaccinations do not agree with your dog. A titre test will assist in confirming that your dog has developed anti-bodies to the diseases for which he was vaccinated. This may serve to satisfy your Obedience Club that he has cover and also give you the confidence you need that your dog has achieved immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I will definitely ask about titre testing as I am really not wanting to vaccinate every year, maybe 3 yearly would be ok. Your dog's body is trying to tell you something. I wouldn't even consider the 3 yearly vaccination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mokhahouse Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Does anyone know how long immunity can last from the vaccinations he has already had. He had the required puppy shots and this is his first yearly booster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) My boy had his puppy shots and I've had him titre tested, results revealing his body has the anti-bodies to the diseases. I will periodically have him titre tested if I am concerned about anything but I don't plan to have him vaccinated again for the rest of his life. The Canine Cough component of the vaccine (if your dog had this) only lasts for about 6 months or so, I believe. But I didn't bother with that. I only worried about the C3. Especially because your boy's had a reaction to the vaccine I'd follow up with the titre test to make sure he has the immunity he needs. ETA: Oops .... sorry - I see you are going to do that. Edited October 23, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Have the dog titre tested if it comes back with a positive for T cells for DHP the dog is vaccinated for life. The only thing that will kill the T cells are irradiation or death. Many boarding kennels are now accepting Titre tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I'd avoid vaccines from now on. The joint problems worry me - if a dog is predisposed to immune issues, a vaccine could flare up a case of immune mediated polyarthritis. Our referral hospital is now recommending cases of IMP not be vaccinated due to the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I wouldn't vaccinate again either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanglen Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Can I just ask (my opinion aside), did he actually have a vaccine reaction or did he just react to the itch of the vaccine after it is put in. Reactions usually last a lot longer than 30 minutes. Many dogs have a scratch and jump about after any injection.... just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mokhahouse Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) After his final puppy vaccination on the way home he became very disorientated, could not walk properly, had excessive itching and swelling around the site of the injection and I had to return him to the vets to have a shot to reduce the reaction. It did work quite successfully and within an hour or so he was improving and by the afternoon was back to his usual self mostly. One year on, this morning he was administered the antihistamine to try to reduce his reaction.He just stood there not fussed at all by this injection. About 5 minutes later he had the vaccination. This is when his behaviour changed.He became very upset, understanding this dog is usually so mellow at the vets they can do anything to him, Was scratching furiously, fur was going every where and was very agitated thrashing around the room and considering he is showing lameness in his right front leg I was very surprised to see him jump around like this. He thankfully stopped scratching at the site after about 30 minutes but was very tired and mopey for the rest of the day.He eyes are all watery and he does not want me to touch any where near the injection site. He has some swelling again at the injection site. 3 vaccinations ago he just had swelling at the site of the injection and each vaccination seems to give a worse result, even with giving the other shot first. It really concerns me.I hate to think how he would be if he had the vaccination alone. It was not as if it was just itchy, it was more like he was in pain.He was throwing himself around banging into the exam table and cabinets. I am not keen to repeat it really. Edited October 23, 2009 by mokhahouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalier Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Can I just ask (my opinion aside), did he actually have a vaccine reaction or did he just react to the itch of the vaccine after it is put in. Reactions usually last a lot longer than 30 minutes. Many dogs have a scratch and jump about after any injection.... just asking. I agree. This doesnt sounds like a true vaccination reaction to me. Vaccines are straight out of the fridge so are cold under the dogs skin. Its not uncommon for them to scratch at the site for a while after the vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mokhahouse Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Can I just ask (my opinion aside), did he actually have a vaccine reaction or did he just react to the itch of the vaccine after it is put in. Reactions usually last a lot longer than 30 minutes. Many dogs have a scratch and jump about after any injection.... just asking. I agree. This doesnt sounds like a true vaccination reaction to me. Vaccines are straight out of the fridge so are cold under the dogs skin. Its not uncommon for them to scratch at the site for a while after the vaccine. I will definitely ask my vet when we go back what she feels about the way he reacted. Last year my other usual vet said he was having a reaction and it was confirmed by his improvement after giving the antihistamine. I hope that his reaction today is more 'normal' as it would make life easier not to have to worry about vaccination reaction. I had so much to discuss today regarding his lameness, sorting out xrays and specialist referral etc that after he started to calm a little we got straight on to that. What would be an abnormal reaction to a vaccination? This was bad enough.Forgot to mention he was panting a lot too for quite a while afterwards which does not usually happen from a vet visit. I don't know what to think or what to do next year. I think a discussion with my vet will be the best way to go. Edited October 23, 2009 by mokhahouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Can I just ask (my opinion aside), did he actually have a vaccine reaction or did he just react to the itch of the vaccine after it is put in. Reactions usually last a lot longer than 30 minutes. Many dogs have a scratch and jump about after any injection.... just asking. I agree. This doesnt sounds like a true vaccination reaction to me. Vaccines are straight out of the fridge so are cold under the dogs skin. Its not uncommon for them to scratch at the site for a while after the vaccine. Not forgetting that he'd received an antihistamine beforehand to reduce any reaction due to the one he'd had the year before. Even the AVA are cautioning against yearly vaccinations even in the absence of any reaction. Yet many Vets seem to be swimming against the tide on that recommendation. Edited October 23, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mokhahouse Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Can I just ask (my opinion aside), did he actually have a vaccine reaction or did he just react to the itch of the vaccine after it is put in. Reactions usually last a lot longer than 30 minutes. Many dogs have a scratch and jump about after any injection.... just asking. I agree. This doesnt sounds like a true vaccination reaction to me. Vaccines are straight out of the fridge so are cold under the dogs skin. Its not uncommon for them to scratch at the site for a while after the vaccine. Not forgetting that he'd received an antihistamine beforehand to reduce any reaction due to the one he'd had the year before. Even the AVA are cautioning against yearly vaccinations even in the absence of any reaction. Yet many Vets seem to be swimming against the tide on that recommendation. Erny that is what worries me. If this is what he was like with antihistamine before his vaccination I hate to think how he would have been otherwise. He had the C5 shot. I wonder if dogs with other allergies/intolerance's are more likely to react to these vaccines. If anyone has a dog that has reacted in the past I would love to hear what you have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) It may not be a typical reaction, but the timing of the symptoms seems like it would be too large a coincidence not to be associated. One of the vaccine studies I read earlier this year (they surveyed 1.2 million dogs!) said that localised swelling and redness and itching were three of the most common vaccine reactions seen in dogs. Not necessarily dangerous, but certainly unpleasant for the animal and owner. If this were my dog, I would not vaccinate him again unless I really had to - and even for regular dogs, I don't believe that for the C3 vaccines, that's any more often than every 3 years. If this were my dog, I'd titre instead of vaccinating him again for as long as I could get away with it. He wouldn't get another vaccination for the rest of his life if possible, and if he had to be vaccinated, I'd do my best to split the vaccines up - give him C3 one week, kennel cough a few weeks after, etc, instead of a C5 all at once. As an aside, IMO, this is why it's important for everyone who can vaccinate their dogs to do so, for at least the puppy series and possibly one adult booster. It creates a good level of herd immunity in the canine population, so that dogs like this can safely get away with not being vaccinated. Have the dog titre tested if it comes back with a positive for T cells for DHP the dog is vaccinated for life.The only thing that will kill the T cells are irradiation or death. Oakway, what does titre testing have to do with T cells? No offence but I think you might have thing mixed up a little? Edited October 23, 2009 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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