Any Suggestions?

[Mickys slave]

Hey all.

I just wanted to share my doggies story, and ask some questions regarding it. Sorry for the length.

Our girl, Micky, is 12 yr old dally. Back in july she almost died. We thought she had a tick bite as she was walking funny, off her food all day, and looked very awkward, very tired,wouldnt drink, didnt want to move much.

We took her down to the vet, who said that there was a mass the size of a lemon in her abdomen, and that they could keep her over night but no one would be able to monitor her, or we could take her home and monitor her ourselves, and if worried take her to 24/7 emergency vet. They wanted to do an ultrasound in the morning. They gave her an injection of pain relief and antibiotics. Her rib cage was considerably distended and she looked really skinny near her back legs.

We took her home and watched her like a hawk. All she did was sleep, didnt want to get up or move or eat or anything. And got unusally clingy and sooky.

A few hours later she started drooling profusely and could barely keep her eyes open. We called the emergency vet and asked if the injections the vet gave her could cause this and we were told it was highly unlikely and to bring her in.

My normally bouncy dally barely could get up, taking a good few mins to get to her feet, needing help. we walked her to the car, and i helped her in and she jsut lay there and rested her head on my leg - which she NEVER does. She started to close her eyes and i was going to let her but when i tapped her nose she didnt respond.... so i panicked and kept tapping her nose to keep her awake.

We took her into the emergency vet, and mum signed all the paperwork. Micky lay down again, and i decided that i was going to keep her awake at all costs - so i slowly walked her back and forth thru the emergency vet till we were called. Ive now worked out this was a good thing it kept blood flowing and kept her awake.

When the emergency vet checked her out, Mickys gums were grey with barely any pink in them, and we were told she was going into shock, they said they need to do xrays to find out what was wrong.

When they came back, Micky had some of her bounce back and pulled towards me from the vet.

It turned out she had gastric distention, it had blocked off her vena cava and her back legs and organs behind the stomach were struggling to get any blood to them. Her stomach was 3 times its normal size. They deflated her stomach - it hadnt twisted thank god. They kept her over night for observation and left the catheter in for the normal vet to do the ultrasound the next day as there was still a mass to be seen in the xray.

When we picked her up in the morning she seemed mostly like herself.

We took her to the vet for the ultrasound. The vet called dad at home during that tense day.... Dad and i were waiting for the phone call, and when dad took it, he wrote notes down, and gave them mums mobile number cos she was at work.

turned out the mass in the xray was a tumour on her spleen. The vet said that if we operated there was a very high chance she would die on the operating table, and if it was cancerous they probably have to euthanise her. If they didnt operate she would either die quickly in pain, or slowly not in pain. If she was in pain it was cancerous, if it was slow, it was not malignant.quickly was 2 weeks, slowly was 4 months. My bro left for Europe and told her she better be back when he gets home - which would be 4 months.

We decided to bring her home for however long we had her, we didnt want her dying on an operating table. She was exhausted and very hungry for 5 days when we got her home, and went from 5 small meals, to 4, and now she is on 3 meals permanently, no dry food.

When she recovered she seemed better than she had before she got sick, but has gotten more lethargic since, going downhill a bit quicker than before she was sick. She is far more sooky and loves to stick to my side whenever i am near her. Its been almost 4 months, my brother is home in 2-3 weeks, and she is still alive. She is still alert, still her dally self. Still grins

I guess what i wanted to ask is, what can i do for her? the vet never suggested any medications, so im not sure thats an option. The vet thought the tumour was going to rupture before 2 weeks was up and was glad that it hasnt. Im thinking more to boost her immune system so her having a compromised spleen isnt effecting her as much. What about food? Any suggestions? Anything else i can do for her?

This is the first dog ive had that has been this ill, and besides feeding her as the vet said, we havent got any other ideas.

Thanks for reading everyone .

[labsrule]

removing post

Edited October 22, 2009 by labsrule

[Wazzat Xolo]

I can only offer hugs and support to you all during this very sad and trying time.

J

[Mickys slave]

thanks guys

Sadly all financial decisions regarding pets are made my parents. Although im 27 im at uni and dont have the funds to cover these things. And dad is very much a " pets stay outside" person - he grew up on a farm and was always more detached to our pets than mum and me and my brother.

They basically said that seeing as the xrays/ultrasound/vet stays cost over 1k, they would never opt for chemo or anything like that..... North Ryde Emergency vet were awesome though. We also took our cat Lucy there when we found her in what we found out was shock and her body was shutting down, and we had no idea cos she had seemed fine hours before.So i was not keen on leaving Micky there over night, i wanted to take her home and hug her lots but considering the GDV she was safer in the vets.... I was worried we were going have 2 outta 2 with them for losing pets

When mum spoke to the vet before the decision to not operate was made, she spoke to the vet at length ( Rosalie at Gladesville Vet) about the risks. And Rosalie said that because of Mickys age and the condition she was in then, that even if they did the operation, and there were able to remove the tumour, it was highly likely she would not make the surgery. Rosalie also said that if it was cancerous then she would advise for Micky to be put to sleep So if we went with the surgery there was about a 70-80% chance she wouldnt make it for one reason or another. If we went with no surgery we were told that it was 50/50 over weather it was cancerous or not. And if she went down hill quickly and in pain, that would be how we would know. If not she had 2-4 months. Mum also asked Rosalie what she would do if this was her own dog, and Rosalie said she would take her home and make her comfortable.

We decided on no surgery because when we looked at the risk, the risk of losing her was far too high. And she was not in any pain at that point, and other than recovering from the GDV, was herself.

Mum called Rosalie back after 2 weeks and Rosalie was suprised Micky was still with us, because she had expected the tumour to bleed out by then, considering the spleen was squished by the GDV, but was glad that she was still with us.

I do know the tumor is near a main blood vessel, so i assume it is in the red pulp of the spleen. She isnt in any pain at this point, so im still suspecting Hemangioma over Hemangiosarcoma. Another xray or ultrasound would be good though, i will have to talk to the parents.

I dont think the parents want to take Micky back to the vet though. Like you did with your boy, i want to do whatever i can to help her, but parents see it more that they do want to help her, but they dont want to spend what they consider a crazy amount of money on her on the small chance it could change things for her, or put her thru procedures that will make her feel worse/sicker/in pain, considering she is an old girl. Their main goal if for her to happy and comfortable.

She still has a fair bit of bounce in her, but she has slowed down since she recovered in July.

Sorry to be such a pain about it all, i jsut gotta work with the parents with this

[dianed]

First off I would have found out if the mass in the spleen was cancerous or not, they can do a biopsy as was the case of my dog. She was diagnosed with a grade 2 Hemangiosarcoma of the spleen after a biopsy, the same cancer that Labsrule sadly lost her boy to recently.

My dog one day suddenly presented with pale gums, very lethargic, staggering around and just not well. She needed a blood transfusion to bring her red blood cell count up immediately or she would have died.

Before the biopsy results came back she was treated for Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia ( IMHA). The day the results came in she was operated on and her spleen removed. It was a matter of urgency to remove the spleen as it can burst. After the spleenectomy she returned to her old self. The vet said she was confident the cancer had not spread outside the spleen.

That was over 3 years ago and Sophie is about to turn 12 this month.

Further I think I am right in saying that whether a mass is benign or malignant a life threatening bleed can occur if it ruptures. A spleen can bleed and stop as it seems has happened in your dog, but most likely it will bleed again. I,m surprised your vet didn't recommend removal of the spleen after things had settled down. A dog as like us humans can live without a spleen.

[Janba]

Did your vet discuss some whether some of the drugs like corticosteroids would help. It reduces the swelling around tumours and can make the dog a lot more comfortable and while probably not good in the long term can make the dogs remaining time a lot more comfortable.

I had a dally with cancer who was treated with them and she bounced until the week before her death.

[Staffyluv]

I would be wanting a more accurate diagnosis than this is what might happen - maybe get a second opinion and actually find out what is wrong with the dog would be the first thing to do, then you can work out what you can do for your dog.

From 4 years worth of experience with a terminally ill dog I will tell you what I would do:

Once malignancy has been dxd, find out if surgery is an option, find out if chemo is an option too (it is expensive but CAN add lots of time to your pets life and it does not make dogs sick like it does humans).

If it is malignant and you can't operate or chemo is not an option there are plenty of things both holistically and using conventional medicine to keep your dog as well as possible for as long as possible.

Find a good holistic vet - ask in the general section of this board and you will get lots of responses. We use All Natural Vet Care in Sydney (we are in Canberra and liaise via our vet, phone and email). They might offer things like supplements (like our vitamins) or even chinese herbs, accupuncture and other treatments.

But you really need to know what is wrong first - it is your pet, go to another vet and get a second or even a third opinion.

Conventional vets can supply pain meds to ease any discomfort that your dog may be in..

Wishing you all the best, it is very hard when our pets are not well.

[dogbesotted]

I second what staffyluv has said.

h

[Sam&Saki]

I agree with others above, first be sure of the diagnosis and explore all options.

If after that surgery or chemo aren't options, there are a number of different medications that slow tumour growth, if I were you I'd get the dog onto the most appropriate type of these asap.

There is also a type of Hills Science Diet food which is designed especially to feed the dog and starve the tumour, I'd put the dog on this immediately too.

There are palliative care vets who can come out to your home to treat your dog, to save your dog the stress of having to go out to the vet, and also their focus is on making your dog comfortable and happy rather than radical intervention. Google and find one in your area, or google 'My Best Friend' in Melbourne and email her and ask if she can recommend somebody who does the same thing in your area.

Finally, make sure your dog is comfortable, happy, and has a good quality of life. The second you sense your dog may be suffering, consider doing what's best for the dog, rather than keeping the dog alive to keep you happy.

I remember when my previous dog was given only a certain amount of time to live, it was such a heartbreaking time. Hugs and strength to you and your doggy. x

[Mickys slave]

Thanks everyone *hugs*

Im really upset because my dad is a heartless bastard and has put his foot down.... the words " im not spending any more bloody money on the dog" and " you want to take her to the vet, you pay for it"...... And im on centrelink benefits and cant afford to take her. Mum doesnt want to do anything remotely invasive, and that seems to include another ultrasound/xray cos she would rather not know how long Micky has left, and just enjoy what time she does have.

Surgery isnt an option. There is also a thrombus where the tumor is attached to the spleen. Mum asked the vet originally can we get a biopsy and the vet said we werent able to, the only option was exploratory surgery, and Micky had a 20% survival rate.

Because we cant get the surgery, we cant get a proper diagnosis. Hence i came and asked here. We called the vet back after a month and asked what could be done and they said, 3 meals a day, keep her happy and safe, watch her for changes.

if you guys have ideas about boosting a dogs immune system or countering anaemia without medications in dogs, feel free to suggest.

She is happy, comfortable, well fed, gets lots of attention and cuddles and company. I know you guys have the right ideas and stuff, and please dont think me heartless for not taking her back to the vet, but it really isnt my choice.

As soon as we feel she is suffering, we will do whatever we feel needs to be done to relieve it, but for the meantime she is doing ok. Its just, its at the end of the projected time frame, and it feels like there is a big empty hole of time ahead of me......

[Staffyluv]

There is a test called a buffy coat test that will indicate malignancy - it is a blood test. At least with that you would have something to go on.

It is nearly impossible to treat without a diagnosis.

There are a few drugs available to help reduce the size and growth rates of tumours but once again, you need to know what you are dealing with.

With your fathers attitude towards your pet and his reluctance to provide medical attention to an already ill animal, being on centrelink payments or not, I would be chatting to the vet to work out some sort of payment plan so your pet can be treated - from the sounds of things it is only going to get worse and will in the very least need pain medication.

I am sorry but I get emotional about people who have pets but won't treat them because they don't want to spend their money on them when the animal is clearly unwell.

I wish you all the best and hope you can find some way to have your dog helped

[Sam&Saki]

Find a vet who can give you a payment plan, hold some sort of fundraising thing, ask every single person you know to donate $5 to the cause, and get the dog to the vet (or the vet to the dog).

Ask you father if he'd match you dollar for dollar, so he's not the bad guy in the situation, perhaps he'll help out if he releases you just want to ensure the dog is comfy for the time it has left, rather than wanting last chance expensive surgery or anything. (Or you could remind him it's illegal to not give a pet appropriate veterinary care, if you really have to.)

If you have to rule out exploratory surgery and the like, fair enough, but be sure your dog isn't suffering and is on whatever it needs to be on to feel comfortable. Again, in this situation I think a palliative care vet might be best.

Be aware there will be expense involved even in making that final decision for your dog, but you CANNOT let the dog suffer in death just because nobody wants to put another cent into its wellbeing.