Thinking About This Whole Pit Bull Thing

[APBT]

I understand this suggestion to be a bit left of centre...........but I am thinking if people are serious to preserve the APBT breed, it wouldn't be difficult to breed them as Amstaffs and 99% of the problems from a legislation perspective is solved???. Papered ANKC recognised breed It would be a simple exercise for an Amstaff breeder to also produce quality APBT's........who could really argue the difference???.

Are you suggesting that ANKC recognised breeders simply slot the unpapered Pits into their breeding program ? or even worse falsify breeding records to produce papers for Pits ?

Harldy a good idea to undermine the integrity of the ANKC register.

I wondered if there are any APBT's with Amstaff papers???

dual registered i think, but i wont be surprised at all. Papers are still available for apbt's.

[WreckitWhippet]

I understand this suggestion to be a bit left of centre...........but I am thinking if people are serious to preserve the APBT breed, it wouldn't be difficult to breed them as Amstaffs and 99% of the problems from a legislation perspective is solved???. Papered ANKC recognised breed It would be a simple exercise for an Amstaff breeder to also produce quality APBT's........who could really argue the difference???.

Are you suggesting that ANKC recognised breeders simply slot the unpapered Pits into their breeding program ? or even worse falsify breeding records to produce papers for Pits ?

Harldy a good idea to undermine the integrity of the ANKC register.

I wondered if there are any APBT's with Amstaff papers???

Quite possibly there have been unethical breeders out there, who have compromised the integrity of the ANKC registry and have falsified papers.

If they have, they ought to be shot for placing every ANKC registered American Staffordshire Terrier at risk. As it currently stands, if you have ANKC papers , together with a corresponding microchip, you do not have a restricted breed.

I guess it's only a matter of time before someone without ethics, screws the currently protected ANKC dogs over.

[WreckitWhippet]

I understand this suggestion to be a bit left of centre...........but I am thinking if people are serious to preserve the APBT breed, it wouldn't be difficult to breed them as Amstaffs and 99% of the problems from a legislation perspective is solved???. Papered ANKC recognised breed It would be a simple exercise for an Amstaff breeder to also produce quality APBT's........who could really argue the difference???.

Are you suggesting that ANKC recognised breeders simply slot the unpapered Pits into their breeding program ? or even worse falsify breeding records to produce papers for Pits ?

Harldy a good idea to undermine the integrity of the ANKC register.

I wondered if there are any APBT's with Amstaff papers???

dual registered i think, but i wont be surprised at all. Papers are still available for apbt's.

Back to basics for you. :D

There are no dual registered APBT's , there are however dual registered Amstaffs, who have been registered with the AKC and then placed on additional registries as APBT's , where those registeries choose to accept and include the American Staffordshire Terrier as an APBT.

The AKC does recognise and accept the APBT as a breed and in turn neither does our governing body the ANKC.

For the purposes of BSL in this country, only those dogs who are ANKC registered are excluded from restrictions. This also includes those dogs who are imported and re-registered with the ANKC where permissable.

ETA see above post re the unethical who might falsify papers, that is the only way they are going to get APBT's issued with ANKC papers.

Edited November 17, 2009 by SBT123

[chrisjc]

There are lots of people, out there that are unethical breeders, that are of that club. i know of at least one who is renowned amongst the community who is obviously using steriods on their dogs, though there is no proof that i have. almost every breeder that knows of them thinks the same, yet nothing is done to investigate it. which one of the two is more unethical?

And i believe on another thread there is a post on there being dual registered dogs in australia.

I have been on Holidays for a week and this thread has turned into the same threads as the fifty before it re: apbts, lots of bickering back and forth and a lot of circle work. people who are supposed to be "anti bsl" and yet still seem to be blaming apbt owners and the dogs. we all know the problem so why state the obvious? its all been said before. everyone here is mostly of the same opinion yet not of the exact degree, so why go in circles?

sbt where are you putting the blame then? on the registry that accepts ast as apbts?

truth is both registries are to blame.

dual registered dogs are openly advertised in the states, so if they dont want it cancel the dual dogs registration?

would that be something that would be in the to hard basket?

personally i wouldnt by a dog that was apbt without ADBA papers. at least i know where it has come from.

i can trace my dogs ped back to past a hundred years.

Edited November 18, 2009 by chrisjc

[WreckitWhippet]

There's no problem with anyone that breeds and registers their Amstaffs with the AKC, then for whatever reason themselves or the buyers choose to register their Amstaffs as APBT's with another registry. Even if they did this, when it comes to BSL in this country, they are still recognised as Amstaffs as they can be accepted for re-registration with the ANKC.

ANKC papers means your dog is not classed as a "restricted breed"

You could also choose to register your ANKC papered Amstaff with another registry, that will accept them as APBT's.

People fail to recognise that the dual registration, when it comes to the AKC and re-registration with the ANKC ( your get out of jail free card ) only works one way. That being the dogs have to be AKC registered Amstaffs in the first place and not APBT's trying to be dual registered in the reverse.

Unless you are prepared to falsify papers , your American Pit Bull Terrier will never be anything else other than an APBT when it comes to BSL. It's a pretty simple concept , unless you do not understand how the AKC and the ANKC work and what their reciprocal arrangement is.

[tybrax]

Gorgeous pics guys Welcome back Wobbly :D tybrax

[chrisjc]

Sbt, i wouldnt want my dog seen as anything else anyway, and hanging papers certainly isnt something i would do either i frown upon it.

i just wanted you to clarify your opinion on the dual registy thing and you have so thank you

as ive said before i think the dual registry thing is a joke and if someone really wants to have a dog that is a "legal pitbull" i think they are allready owning the dog for the wrong reasons, and there are plenty of great Staffords and AST's out there aswell , but then im not sure if any of those breeds are the'right' breed for such a person.

there are better apbts, bred legally in Australia, thatr are of alot higher quality than any of those dual registered dogs, and also alot better ast's aswell.

i cant see it being to long before some idiot starts importing American Bullies , over here or even worse starts breeding them from Australian stock.

that would really throw a spanner in the works.

if i wanted to see a hippo i would just go to the zoo.

[KOUKLI]

i cant see it being to long before some idiot starts importing American Bullies , over here or even worse starts breeding them from Australian stock.

that would really throw a spanner in the works.

if i wanted to see a hippo i would just go to the zoo.

[doit4thedogz]

Well I haven't been on this forum for ages but thought I would put my 2 cents in. I have 2 APBT's,my male is nearly 2 years and my female is 18 months. Before these dogs I owned GSD's and before that a couple of cross breeds. This is just my opinion but these are my observation's/experience's.

-My favorite breed I have owned/met

-Most affectionate dog's I have owned/met

-As smart or smarter than any dog I have owned/met

-Worst guard dog's I have owned

-Most Energetic dog I have owned

-Most personality I have owned/met

-Most dog aggressive dog's I have owned.(would never take to dog park,and if you think socialization is going to correct this i would think again)

-Would never leave the two together unsupervised

-Fantastic around kids/strangers (like any breed should always be supervised)

-Never left unsupervised to roam yard (if they want to get out,they will get out)

-Like I said, my opinion but not suitable for everyone!!! If you think you can get a nice puppy and leave it in your backyard all day and pay it hardly any attention with your 6 foot colour bond fencing i would think again.

Finally, an Apbt who is not afaid of the truth. Atleast you're not living in denial and know the breed well enough to be realistic.

[rottiadora]

-My favorite breed I have owned/met

Agree with that.

-Most affectionate dog's I have owned/met

One look into those beautiful expressive eyes then you're hooked.

Love them for that!

-As smart or smarter than any dog I have owned/met

Move over Border Collies.

-Worst guard dog's I have owned

C'mon in, I'll just lay here, you help yourself.

-Most Energetic dog I have owned

When the mood strikes.

-Most personality I have owned/met

Oh so true!

Well summed up 'gredan'

Edited November 18, 2009 by rottiadora

[luvmeveges]

Love the pix!

Edited November 19, 2009 by luvmeveges

[chrisjc]

doitforthedogs, i seem to think you just look for apbt owners to pick on with your far superior methodoligies, and ethics when it comes to these dogs yet you dont seem to know much about them other than the standard stuff that anyone can find off the net. i would ask you to read back over all of my posts, when it comes to this breed and explain to me what makes me a bad owner . your last post on the previous page seem to indicate that there is the first post of someone who isnt denying the true nature of the breed. disect anything i have wrote and explain to me what i have done wrong as an apbt owner, you seem to know everything about them so im thinking you could tell me where ive gone so awfully wrong?

or maybee you could finally elaborate on what experience that you have that is relevant with owning one or maybee another restricted breed?

i would think that instead of contributing your overly biased opinions to the pitbull threadsyou may start to contribute to helping the situation instead of sitting on the fence and letting everyone who owns one know your opinions of the owners of the breed.

im sorry to inform you but i would say for the most part the owners of apbt's that are on this site are of the desirable variety and the last thing we need is someone who doesnt own one tell us something we allready have been aware of before you or this site were around.

i think you would have alot of positives you could contribute to these threads, but telling us something we already know im thinking must make you feel like your hitting your head against the wall.

why not work together to come up with ideals and solutions instead of finger pointing.

[tybrax]

-My favorite breed I have owned/met

Agree with that.

-Most affectionate dog's I have owned/met

One look into those beautiful expressive eyes then you're hooked.

Love them for that!

-As smart or smarter than any dog I have owned/met

Move over Border Collies.

-Worst guard dog's I have owned

C'mon in, I'll just lay here, you help yourself.

-Most Energetic dog I have owned

When the mood strikes.

-Most personality I have owned/met

Oh so true!

Well summed up 'gredan'

Why would you deny any of the above? My Staffy and Pit Bull are much the same as Gredan describes.

Bloody proud of them too. Best \\\'type\\\' of dogs in the world!!!!!!!!! :D

[luvmeveges]

doitforthedogs, i seem to think you just look for apbt owners to pick on with your far superior methodoligies, and ethics when it comes to these dogs yet you dont seem to know much about them other than the standard stuff that anyone can find off the net. i would ask you to read back over all of my posts, when it comes to this breed and explain to me what makes me a bad owner . your last post on the previous page seem to indicate that there is the first post of someone who isnt denying the true nature of the breed. disect anything i have wrote and explain to me what i have done wrong as an apbt owner, you seem to know everything about them so im thinking you could tell me where ive gone so awfully wrong?

or maybee you could finally elaborate on what experience that you have that is relevant with owning one or maybee another restricted breed?

i would think that instead of contributing your overly biased opinions to the pitbull threadsyou may start to contribute to helping the situation instead of sitting on the fence and letting everyone who owns one know your opinions of the owners of the breed.

im sorry to inform you but i would say for the most part the owners of apbt\'s that are on this site are of the desirable variety and the last thing we need is someone who doesnt own one tell us something we allready have been aware of before you or this site were around.

i think you would have alot of positives you could contribute to these threads, but telling us something we already know im thinking must make you feel like your hitting your head against the wall.

why not work together to come up with ideals and solutions instead of finger pointing.

Good post \'chrisjc\'.

[Mym]

Totally off topic but there is an Am Staffy available with Best Friends Rescue in Brisbane. We had him with us for four days and this lad is a gem of a dog.

He really needs a great home that understands the breed. He is at the bottom of the page on their website. Is desexed, vaccinated, microchipped and has had 12 month heartworm treatment. He gets on with other dogs, is interested but not agro with cats, loves to have a swim and plays fetch (in a fashion) I had him out walking with a gentle leader on and he was great. My daughter pleaded with us to keep him. He is just a gorgeous dog. He comes with full vet history and even came with photos of his mum and dad.

http://www.bestfriendsrescue.com/dogs.html

[doit4thedogz]

doitforthedogs, i seem to think you just look for apbt owners to pick on with your far superior methodoligies, and ethics when it comes to these dogs yet you dont seem to know much about them other than the standard stuff that anyone can find off the net.

i would ask you to read back over all of my posts, when it comes to this breed and explain to me what makes me a bad owner . your last post on the previous page seem to indicate that there is the first post of someone who isnt denying the true nature of the breed. disect anything i have wrote and explain to me what i have done wrong as an apbt owner, you seem to know everything about them so im thinking you could tell me where ive gone so awfully wrong?

or maybee you could finally elaborate on what experience that you have that is relevant with owning one or maybee another restricted breed?

i would think that instead of contributing your overly biased opinions to the pitbull threadsyou may start to contribute to helping the situation instead of sitting on the fence and letting everyone who owns one know your opinions of the owners of the breed.

im sorry to inform you but i would say for the most part the owners of apbt's that are on this site are of the desirable variety and the last thing we need is someone who doesnt own one tell us something we allready have been aware of before you or this site were around.

i think you would have alot of positives you could contribute to these threads, but telling us something we already know im thinking must make you feel like your hitting your head against the wall.

why not work together to come up with ideals and solutions instead of finger pointing.

Many of the things ive said, apbt owners should already be aware of. This forum has always been an open forum and anyone is free to challenge anything I say if they think im wrong. Some people do put up an argument, some just hit the denial button time and time again.

As for suggestions, many people have made many good points. I dont see it happening without support from the owners themselves, and have yet to see that.

[doit4thedogz]

-My favorite breed I have owned/met

Agree with that.

-Most affectionate dog's I have owned/met

One look into those beautiful expressive eyes then you're hooked.

Love them for that!

-As smart or smarter than any dog I have owned/met

Move over Border Collies.

-Worst guard dog's I have owned

C'mon in, I'll just lay here, you help yourself.

-Most Energetic dog I have owned

When the mood strikes.

-Most personality I have owned/met

Oh so true!

Well summed up 'gredan'

Why would you deny any of the above? My Staffy and Pit Bull are much the same as Gredan describes.

Bloody proud of them too. Best \\\'type\\\' of dogs in the world!!!!!!!!!

What about the other points rottiadora chose to leave out. do you agree with them too?/

[chrisjc]

The thing is, there are those of us out there who do the right thing and follow the rules and have the best outcome for both us and the breed in mind.

Just because there are high numbers of iresponsible owners out there, it doesnt mean that we the good ones dont exist. the problem will allways be there in my eyes but what alot of non owners are doing is saying they are not generalising but when it suits them they do, by saying the same thing over and over again and getting the same response, you say its all about the owners but then when we agree about it and say it about responsible ownership , our other words get twisted around and you say we claim our dogs to be harmless.

as the post says above, you are picking on what you class as the faults the poster has made.

highly unfair in my eyes. just because we dont sit there and highlight the negative points in owning one of these dogs doesnt mean we are denying they exist. why highlight the negative parts of the breed? all you would do is jump straight back on us and say how "now your addmiting the dogs are dangerous".

i also dont see the points in making a statement so negative about my chosen breed when there are way more positive aspects to owning one.

Did you seriously think we would own such an animal if the bad points were to outweigh the good? i dont think so it would just be ludicrus.

And yes you know i do totally understand that some people do get sick of the same old arguments, but guess what unless youve got something better to bring to the table there always gonna be there.

so instead of doing what has been done, think out of the circle a little. or is as far as your opinions go just your keyboard?

if you feel like your going around in circles, think about what other things you can do, the main issue here isnt APBT owners it is the fact that as what is supposed to be a free country, we are being told what breeds of dog we can or cant own.

i would like to have my son or daughter to be able to have a free choice of what breed they decide on wheather it be a border collie or a presa canario.

What about the fact that slowly the American Staffordshire is now creeping into the firing line because fifty years ago you can relate it to the working pitbull?

Once they have been added who is next? American Bulldogs? if you think the list wont grow you are fooling yourself, its a trend that has followed with most bsl countries, to add a few more when they realise that their "quick fix" has infact done nothing.

i really do think that if we work out away to stop firing biased opinions around and then being defensive about what you think is right or wrong.

and if you get sick of getting the same idiotic answers to your suggestions, you have a choice to let that "idiot" bother you or not.

i will say that there is another "idiot" sitting right here that wants your opinions and actually values them, because without them i dont think this will ever move forward.

rant over.

Edited November 25, 2009 by chrisjc

[Nannas]

all I can say is thank god they lifted the GSD ban, just wishing they would learn from back then and lift the APBT ban too...

In about 1984 I bought a 2 GSD on the QLD/NSW border. I moved and was living at Coffs Harbour and Woolgoolga with no problems at all.

When I left one dog was given away and I took one with me. Moving back down through NSW I could NOT find anywhere to rent with my GSD. Everyone was so dead set against her that I was even approached by a policeman, in a small town, and told they wouldn't allow her in town. (Too bad about the job I had there)

Myself, daughter and my dog were basically homeless. Staying in pubs for a few nights here and there trying to find somewhere to live.

Luckily my sister lived on a farm so I went and stayed with her for a while. Poor GSD ended up being PTS as I couldn't have myself and daughter homeless anymore and had ran out of money to keep going town by town trying to find somewhere GSD friendly.

Back then owning a GSD was worse than owning an APBT is now. Some people don't recognise an APBT but everyone knows a GSD right from the get go.

[doit4thedogz]

The thing is, there are those of us out there who do the right thing and follow the rules and have the best outcome for both us and the breed in mind.

Just because there are high numbers of iresponsible owners out there, it doesnt mean that we the good ones dont exist. the problem will allways be there in my eyes but what alot of non owners are doing is saying they are not generalising but when it suits them they do, by saying the same thing over and over again and getting the same response, you say its all about the owners but then when we agree about it and say it about responsible ownership , our other words get twisted around and you say we claim our dogs to be harmless.

i dont know what you're n about.

as the post says above, you are picking on what you class as the faults the poster has made.

highly unfair in my eyes. just because we dont sit there and highlight the negative points in owning one of these dogs doesnt mean we are denying they exist. why highlight the negative parts of the breed? all you would do is jump straight back on us and say how "now your addmiting the dogs are dangerous".

The debate was between myslef and rottidora. and my point was made. Many people jumped aboard rottidoras boat and that is; denial.

i also dont see the points in making a statement so negative about my chosen breed when there are way more positive aspects to owning one.

Did you seriously think we would own such an animal if the bad points were to outweigh the good? i dont think so it would just be ludicrus.

And yes you know i do totally understand that some people do get sick of the same old arguments, but guess what unless youve got something better to bring to the table there always gonna be there.

so instead of doing what has been done, think out of the circle a little. or is as far as your opinions go just your keyboard?

if you feel like your going around in circles, think about what other things you can do, the main issue here isnt APBT owners it is the fact that as what is supposed to be a free country, we are being told what breeds of dog we can or cant own.

i would like to have my son or daughter to be able to have a free choice of what breed they decide on wheather it be a border collie or a presa canario.

Respect the rules of the nation mate. Im sure many people want drugs, euthanasia, street racing, etc to be legal too. The only way to be free is to buy yourself a piece of the ocean, and build yourself an island in top.