Novice Needing Help With Barking Pup

[Guest tollerblaize]

Hi All,

I am new to this forum. Have been enjoying reading advice etc. I thought it was time to come to you guys for some help.

I am the proud owner of a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever - 13 weeks old. He is doing really well with his training, can come, sit, down and stay fairly reliably. However, he is such a barker. This started about 3 weeks ago and seems to be getting steadily worse. I have been ignoring the barking and only inviting Blaize in or giving him attention when he is quiet.

Balize sleeps in a crate inside at night. In the morning he whines which tells me he needs to go out to the toilet. This happens about 4.30 am which is fine. Usually he comes straight back in and only barks for a couple of minutes before settling back down. I have tried leaving him outside at this time but his barking is terrible. When I go out and he hears the car, Blaize barks. When it's raining, he barks. Blaize barks to be let in and barks to get my attention when inside.

I have been trying to ignore the barking but this just isn't working. What should I do? I have never had a barker before. I have been trying positive reinforcement, e.g. when he's been quiet, treat him, but I just can't keep that up constantly. I need to just stop the insesent barking. Any comments would be very much appreciated.

[Divine Angel]

Is he bored? Try some games and toys. A kong is good.

Alternatively, I think puppy has you trained, not the other way round! He barks, gets your attention, he gets what he wants.

I have a 12 week old puppy (Maremma sheepdog) who barks when she is playing and a) the toy gets stuck under or between something (she thinks barking will make it come out!) or b) when we're playing with her and ignoring her.

I don't want her barking, so I say her name roughly, she gets the message.

Best wishes on the barking! If its gets too bad, you might want to seek professional help (for the dog, not you) from Bark Busters et al.

[Guest tollerblaize]

Divine Angel,

Thank you so much for your advice. We have been using a kong. He gets through it pretty quickly so I need to have a look at what I'm stuffing it with. Would this then replace a meal? He's on 3 meals a day at the moment.

Regarding toys, we have lots around the yard for Blaize. He still seems more intent on being inside with us though. Any more ideas to relieve a bored dog then? I mean, actual examples of things to use? You may be right. It may be boredom most of the time.

[dogdayz]

I have always used the water spray bottle to stop unneccesary barking - just plain water, some people i have known use lemon juice or vinegar but this is not a good idea. The shock of a quick spray in the face usually gets the message through.

The early morning is always hard, I know my dogs get up earlier than i want to, and you hear them playing. This is probably the major playtime of the day for them, and certainly the noisiest. Perhaps you could prepare his breakfast in a kong and give to him then. Usually a full tummy makes them sleep.

He will prefer to be in with you rather than outside with toys, but personally i think a dog needs to learn to spend time alone. I use the kongs, smearing peanut butter in them seems to last as long as anything else. I use a treat ball - some are safer than others, if you search the forums you will find advice on these. Mine also like boxes, there doesnt have to be anything in them its just the fun of jumping and tearing them, so i keep empty beer cases etc and give to them.

My dogs were just got into the habit of being left from an early age, i gave them two small treats and leave. Short duration first, then return when he is quiet - just keep extending the time, and never return when he is barking. When i leave home my dogs come to the gate get their treat and disappear off on their own before i even get in the car.

[soniq]

Just need to say ... Please do not waste your money on Bark Busters. I did and it didn't help much ... my dog thought the chain pillow thing was something to pick up and shake after we threw it near him

[Guest tollerblaize]

I have tried spraying plain water between the eyes and saying no and then moving away but this just seems to excite Blaize even more. I tried this over a period of about 2 days. Went back to ignoring after this which I'm sure confused my poor boy.

I will persist with the kongs. My pup doesn't seem to be interested in the peanut butter thing but I'll keep trying for another couple of days and see what happens.

As for bark busters, I've only heard bad things about them. Does anyone think I should call another trainer in though? Before it gets out of hand? I was thinking DogTech????

[pesh]

Hi Tollerblaize

Good luck some dogs just love to bark. But try these maybe one of these will work?

1. This one takes a little longer. When pup is barking, make a signal (usually the hand) and gently say "Good Bark". When this is learnt, the new one is "No Bark". Works with some dogs, not with others.

2. Time out. Find a place where the dog must stay that is away from everyone, and he can't see you. Start of with short periods. When you return to pup after he has been quiet for a couple of minutes, praise. Repeat this each time he barks. They get the idea pretty quick.

3. A pup that age is really trying you out. If the neighbours aren't too close let hime bark in his pen. He'll get the idea pretty quick that Mum's not coming. Even when you do go out, don't head straight to him. Walk around, hang the washing out, he has to get it into his head that he's not priority when you up and about. He has to wait his turn.

Good luck......

Hope these are of assistance....................

[Guest tollerblaize]

Thanks for the constructive feedback pesh

I agree with all three ideas. I've read about teaching pup to 'speak' and then not to. Will give that a go. Otherwise, I do think Blaize is trying me out and will definately continue with the ignoring etc.

FYI I just let Blaize inside after lunch and he sat here (whilst I was on the computer) and barked and barked at me to get some attention. I just got up and said 'no' and he bolted away, barking over his shoulder. Just like a little child!! I put him back outside for 10 minutes - no barking - and them back in praising him for being quiet. He is now at my feet asleep. Can we keep doing this? I don't want Blaize to think that outside is a punishment. It's a fine line I guess.

[soniq]

Do you have another area you can use for Time out?

[Akitaowner]

he wont think outside is a punishment - just being seperated from u - if u shut him inside and u go outside it will have the same effect he will think about what he has done and try to avoid being seperated in such a way.

he will soon get bored of barking (maybe try this at the w/e after speaking to neighbours!?) and know that u are not going to let him in for a while and go and find somethng to do - hopefully play with toys - investigate the garden etc then let him in when hes been good or go out and play for a while

with the morning whining maybe you could get up a little earlier than he starts to whine then he wouldnt think he was getting attention for it?? with my boy i got up at about 2am after letting him out at 10 for his last pee then into his crate and i was up at 6am to play and feed him and we gradually moved the 2am pee forward until he could hold it thru the night

use ur crate too for time outs he needs to learn that its a good place and to settle down once inside -ie no barking!

with the kong and such toys u really need to start v easy with them we got him used to the fact that it was his and could play with it then put a few little treats inside that would fall out easily - maybe hes more noise orientated than food maybe try the balls and things that make moises when played with

i think ur on the right track if he seems to be getting the idea - he is only a baby and he may have gotten attention from the breeder or other dogs/pups for making a lot of noise?

good luck i hope u have some peace for christmas

[mcboxer]

I had this problem with a dog I was looking after for a few months. Only happened when he was outside. He wasn't bored plenty to do and others to play with. Everytime it occured I would open a door or window and call out in my voice " NO Barking!!" as soon as he heard the voice and tone he would turn to look at me and of course was quiet at that moment, then I would say in my sweet voice " good boy!". At first I was doing this about every ten minutes and after a day or two he stopped. He was a dream after that. It could becharacter of a ' pleaser ' though.

My dogs don't bark for no reason or to get attention, I have taught them all from baby puppies the same way.

Just thought I'd let you know of my experience. Although I'm probably not much help because boxers generally speaking,are not big yappers.

keep trying! I'm sure you'll get there in the end! Have you tried asking the breeder what they would do? or have done in the past?

[Guest tollerblaize]

Hi All,

The saga continues. This is a good example of our problem. I have just fed Blaize. He is outside. He is at the back door and has been barking for 30 minutes. Pretty much non stop. Last week I tried water sprays into his face. I haev also tried saying no gruffly etc. These things actually make Blaize bark more madly.

Again, ignoring is just so hard as it really doesn't seem to be getting better. He has toys in the yard. He has been with me this afternoon. He was exercised this morning. What is going on? I'm really at my wits end here. Help.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Where abouts do you live tollerblaize?

Generally when pups bark like that it is due to boredom + loneliness, just because he has toys in the yard, it doesn't mean he will occupy himself.

Tollers are an extremely energetic dog, and benefit from 2 good walks a day.

'A tired dog is a quiet dog'.

I notice you already have a kong, my guys get theirs for brekky, so I layer dry food and good quality can food (only for the yummy taste) and really squish it in, to make it harder to get the stuffing out.

Other ingredients you could try are dried liver pieces, cream cheese (just a little), meat leftovers etc. You can even freeze chicken stock in the kong by sealing the small end with peanut butter or something and freeze the kong upside down.

There are some good recipes at

Kong company website

Good luck, you have already gotten lots of good advice....bad time of the year with most clubs out for summer, but sounds like you need to get his brain working, even if it's just teaching him some tricks and doing basic training.

Kind Regards,

Mel.

[mcboxer]

It certainly sounds like he's trying to dominate you. Sounds like he's demanding that you give him the attention he wants when he wants it. Hmmmm... That doesn't help to solve the problem much though does it

Have you tried holding his head ( by the cheeks) and growingling at him " No Barking" ?

Maybe hold him still, with a collar or on a lead for a while and growl, or light smack if you believe in that, everytime he tries to bark or move away from your grip.

I know it doesn't help for now but he certainly is dominating, or trying to. I can't remember do you go to obedience classes?

You may also want to try going out in the yard with him for a while and every time he begins to bark go inside. then minutes later outside again and keep it going and hope he gets the picture ;)

Basically I think you need to sit down and figure out what you are prepared to do or not do to teach this dog that you are the pack leader ( Cos I'm sorry to say but at the moment he is) . But you're not alone, cos I have an 11 month old dog that Im still trying to learn to be dominant over. Must be boys! That'd be right!!

Sorry I'm not much help. I'll keep thinking about it.

[Guest tollerblaize]

Thank you so much to all of you for your wonderful ideas and support. I do agree. I think we need to work him harder. We definately didn't have this problem over the weekend when he was out with us basically all day. I am due to start obedience in the new year.

Meanwhile I will persevere with the kong (thanks for the good ideas for breakfast Mel). I guess we try to keep up the exercise as much as possible. I think tonight he just got to the point of no return (rather like a toddler) and could not be consoled. My husband has him out on a long walk now so hopefully that will do the trick.

We just don't want to feel that we HAVE to walk him or we get barked at. When he is inside and barks at me I have tried so many different things, e.g. growling back, big loud 'no', taking him outside etc etc. It all just makes him bark more.

I will keep trying.

[mcboxer]

Good on you The bonus is that he's still so young, and already you're getting on top of it. I'm sure you will have him on track in no time and will enjoy many years with your beautiful, well behaved boy ;)

[Acacia]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but here it is anyway... get a few toys, about 6-8 or something, and give him 3 toys to play with for a day or two. then take those toys away and give him the other ones. He will be happy and more likely to play with his toys longer, it's like a new toy for them! and just continue doing that plus treats in kongs etc.... good luck on the barking, if you are goign to ignore him try not to even make eye contact.

[Divine Angel]

Hmmm gosh. Hard one. I think we've established that there's two reasons for the barking: 1) boredom and 2) attention seeking.

Where do we go from there? I have to say that none of my dogs have ever barked for the fun of it, only when something is happening around them that they want to make me aware of. I don't want to come across as some sort of expert in this field!! All I know is what I've learned from Dr Harry, other people and my own intuition.

I tend to think that a spray of water in the face may be seen as more of a game than a "no" command, unless your dog doesn't like water. That could be why some people mix lemon into it.

Ask your vet- they may have some ideas that we've forgotten to mention.

[mcboxer]

I forgot to ask, and this just came to me when I was lying in bed last night

Do you pick him up and carry him around at all?

The reason I ask is because I'm a shocker with picking up baby puppies. I looove to walk around with a pup in my arms. My dogs just get too big too fast

Anyway, my obedience instructor always tells people " Don't pick the puppy up and walk around with it!!"

She says the dog then thinks that it is equal to you.( height level thing, and the dog being raised to your level)

She says by all means, get down on the floor with the dog let it on your bed, couch, whatever if you like, but don't lift the dog to your level.Get down to it, but then at any stage that it gets cocky, you can raise yourself up and be higher than it at any time you wish.

not sure if that helps ;)

Just came to me.

[pesh]

Time to go to the vets. It could be a sight or hearing problem.

If he's in the house and still barking at you and it's not agressive behaviour. Watch what he's doing, could he be impaired in his sight and/or hearing. Maybe he can only see shaddows or can only hear his own barking. Things to think about, and watch before racing off.

When I spoke about time out, it's NOT to be a family area don't want to scare the little bugger of the share areas at home. Make it a corner out the back or make a pen, where he can't see over it.

Or maybe he's just going to be a hand full.

I know I'm going to be bagged over this suggestion (before casting SHAME on me, look into how it is done, not near as barbaric as it use to be. But still not nice to have to take it that far). If it continues, debarking can be a LAST resort after you have exhausted everything else. Some vets believe in it, others don't. If you live suburbia, it might worth thinking of it when he's older.

Again Good Luck and Keep Us Posted.............................