janiJ Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) I hope someone can help me - my little Maggie (mini schnauzer) who is about 14 and a half years old has congestive heart failure. She also has a mouth full of rotten teeth a problem which I have tried to address for about two years now but the vets were unwilling to give her anaesthetic because of the risk of her dying. She is now taking an antibiotic for the mouth. Since being diagnosed and started on the heart medications I dont really see any great improvement in her condition. No one seems to be able to tell me the quality of life she will have if she does respond to medication; they have asked to review her in 2 weeks at which stage they want to do something about the teeth. Maggie looks most unhappy and sick to me, and I feel that perhaps we have reached the end of our journey together. I am very fond of her and do so want to do the right thing by her but I feel I am being pressured to keep her alive at any cost not to mention subjecting her to an anaesthetic for her teeth (even though they would not do so before now). She will be so stressed at being left at the vets she will probably die anyway. I just dont know what to do for the best - any comments would be most gratefully received. Edited October 18, 2009 by janiJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atua Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Hi JaniJ and welcome to the forum. I cant be of much medical help but I would however suggest you to do what you feel is right by your dog. If you dont see any quality of life left then maybe it is time to say goodbye. I dont understand why the vets are willing to operate on her teeth now though? Seems weird. Another option that I would look at doing as well is going to another vet and explaining the whole situation and getting a second opinion. Either way I am sure you will make the best decision which is right for you and your dog. Best wishes and all the best Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 You know you dog. If you think that it is her time to go then it is the right time. Some vets do seem to push treatments. Don't let the vets make you feel like crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 If you feel that she is suffering and unhappy, then I think you have your answer. Sometimes some vets will try and make you do procedures or proplong lives no matter what the age/condition of your dog. You have the right to say NO and mean it. They should not be making your feel guilty or pressured. She is an aged dog with chronic serious medical conditions. You could always change vets if you are feeling unhappy or worried, even if only to get a second opinion. After having worked in the veterinary industry for years I refuse to prolong my pets lives for myself, I always try to put them first in every decision I make. Best of luck with your girl and I hope you reach a decision with what you would like to do soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Some people are just unrealistic. What is wrong with PTS a 14 year old dog with congestive heart failure? Not to mention the teeth problem. Just tell the vet what you want to do. You're in the best position to make the treatment vs. PTS decision. Can you take someone with you to the vet for support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 if it were my dog I would try the anaesthetic to relieve her body of the burden of infected teeth. Those anaerobic infections can put pressure on the already failing heart. Find a good vet who will let you stay with her until the procedure and then when she wakes up. I may sound blunt but a death under anaesthetic is as peaceful as the needle anyway. She is asleep all the way so her stress will be low and they can prop her up so she doesnt have fluid collecting while she is laying down, then keep her on O2. Just my opinion but do not feel bad in ANY way if quality of life for her is not there. She has had a long, good life with you already hugs and support!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallomph Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 My 14yr old Shih Tzu recently had a rotten molar. I didn't know about it, I hadn't been checking his teeth because he had already had 6 removed in the last year, and I assumed the rest would be OK "for a while". Anyway, over a period of months he got slow, quiet, refused food sometimes (not regularly), vomited occasionally... I just thought he was getting old and slowing down. One day he started limping, so off to the vet we went. It turned out the rotten tooth had caused his lymph nodes somewhere up near his shoulder to swell up and get painful. So he had surgery to extract the tooth. And I could not believe the difference it made to his whole quality of life and general demeanor. He became bouncy, played with his toys again, loves his food... you would swear he was 5 years younger than he is. My point is, if one rotten tooth could make such a difference to my boy, perhaps there is a good chance of much improved quality of life for your dog if the teeth can be attended to. However, there is certainly a risk in the anesthetic, and only you can know if her other problems may make it too much to cope with. Your vet should respect that it's your decision, and if they don't, I'd be finding another vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanglen Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Personally I would have a hard time saying good-bye because of bad teeth. I would do the dental, probably after some further chest rad's and bloods but I would do the teeth, that being said, we are not there with your dogs and cannot see what condition your dog is in so it will always have to be your decision not anyone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavandra Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I would have them done asap. I would find a Vet that understands your issue about stress, they will likely do her first & let you stay til she is knocked out....they use different anaesthetic for heart probs, costs a bit more but worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 if it were my dog I would try the anaesthetic to relieve her body of the burden of infected teeth. Those anaerobic infections can put pressure on the already failing heart.Find a good vet who will let you stay with her until the procedure and then when she wakes up. I may sound blunt but a death under anaesthetic is as peaceful as the needle anyway. She is asleep all the way so her stress will be low and they can prop her up so she doesnt have fluid collecting while she is laying down, then keep her on O2. Just my opinion but do not feel bad in ANY way if quality of life for her is not there. She has had a long, good life with you already hugs and support!! I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 +2 for Nekhbet's advice. It's very hard to decide. The only pressure is that which you place upon yourself. If she's not ready to go, she simply won't. If she is, she'll let you know. Let us know how she goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 My thoughts and prayers are with you. It is a damn hard time when our furkids get health issues. If it were me I would seek a 2nd opinion. I have ghad a 13yo male operated on to remove a lump on the face and the Vet used anaesthetic that they use on premature human babies and you would not have known that he had had a GA. He lived another 1.5 years. Send Charles Kuntz a PM( he is a specialist Vet Surgeon and get his view on this). Whatever decision you make you have given your furkid 14 loving years and they never forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 And another vote for Nekbet, Erny and others advice. Similar situation here but with my mothers old cat. She was very unhappy with the pressure her vet put her under to treat a 16 year old. So together we went to my vet on a Sunday - palliative care for a day or so (while Mum really got used to the idea) and then Georgie went over the rainbow bridge the following Tuesday morning. My vet was brilliant - Mum came away feeling sad but fantastically supported, knowing she had helped Georgie to a pain free existence in the next life - no jabbing in of the green dream here - O2, sedation and then IV green dream - couldn't have asked for more. Big hugs - you'll know when its time - they tell you. Westiemum if it were my dog I would try the anaesthetic to relieve her body of the burden of infected teeth. Those anaerobic infections can put pressure on the already failing heart.Find a good vet who will let you stay with her until the procedure and then when she wakes up. I may sound blunt but a death under anaesthetic is as peaceful as the needle anyway. She is asleep all the way so her stress will be low and they can prop her up so she doesnt have fluid collecting while she is laying down, then keep her on O2. Just my opinion but do not feel bad in ANY way if quality of life for her is not there. She has had a long, good life with you already hugs and support!! I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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