Tracheal Collapse

[Steve]

Just curious - Ive had a poke around and seen some conflicting reports and I thought this would be the best place to ask about

Tracheal collapse.

Some websites tell me it usually shows under one year of age and some others tell me it is sometimes not there until middle age.

For those of you with breeds who suffer with this would you say its usully early onset?

Edited October 15, 2009 by Steve

[puggy_puggy]

From my knowledge chronic trachea collapse it is a middle age or old age condition. That is brought about by other conditions which have made breathing difficult. ie. elongated soft pallet

I believe that 'Goose honking' or 'reverse sneezing' that most brachy breeds do every now and again is a form of the trachea collapsing.

[shortstep]

I have had 2 toy poodles at two different times, both had it. Started early adult, maybe around 3 years old. Both lived to a good age.

[Bindii]

I believe that 'Goose honking' or 'reverse sneezing' that most brachy breeds do every now and again is a form of the trachea collapsing.

That's my understanding too, but wouldn't say it's old/middle age... Hugo's been doing it occasionally since about 6 months old, at other times he has really great breathing (none of that 'pug breathing/snorting' sound), it also got much worse during the time that had kennel cough earlier in the year.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Bindii

[Steve]

Thats interesting - ths speaks about a lack of chondrointin http://www.vetsurgerycentral.com/tracheal_collapse.htm

And - Tracheal collapse is mainly a disease of toy-breed dogs of either sex. Yorkshire terriers are most commonly affected, but Pomeranians, Chihuahuas, poodles, Maltese and pugs are also predisposed. Any age dog can be affected, but the average age at which clinical signs first occur is usually six or seven years.

The complete cause is unknown but many factors are thought to be associated, these

being:

• Generic factor

• Nutritional factors

• Alleges

• Nerve deficiency

• Small airway disease

One theory suggests that the chemical composition of the cartilage is abnormal and unable to support an open trachea. When cartilage becomes weak, the trachea collapses and air cannot move freely in and out of the dog's body.

The reason Im curious is because there does seem to be a correlation between this and patella problems showing so far in the breed survey. I know that PL is more common in toy breeds too but its sparked my interest in the genetics and nutritional areas.

It also seems to be more of a toy thing than a brachy thing so that may be important too.

It opens up a bunch of questions Id like to see expanded on if the survey remains constant in what its already showing.

[dwynwen]

For those of you with breeds who suffer with this would you say its usully early onset?

large breed, started at about age 10, now 12 doesn't seem to be getting worse - the heart condition will probably get her first :-(

[Steve]

Wow - do you mind me asking what breed? Do you think there was any other underlying medical condition,any others in thefamily with it which caused it or is there any other cartildge or joint issues?

Edited October 15, 2009 by Steve

[dwynwen]

Wow - do you mind me asking what breed? Do you think there was any other underlying medical condition,any others in thefamily with it which caused it or is there any other cartildge or joint issues?

Akita - the specialist called it "Tracheal collapse" and said it's part of age related upper respiratory disease. We were there to check her heart and the narrowed airways showed on the xray. She has a nasty cough a few times a day but copes ok. Not sure if it's the same as the condition you're talking about.

I know her breeding and don't know of any problems in the lines BUT it's not something I've gone looking for - she's a pet, never bred. She has a history of seizures, on thyroid treatment for years to raise her levels to high normal. Hasn't had a seizure for quite a while now and I suspect the heart meds fixed it not the thyroxin... She did have two rbb snake bites when she was younger.

I suspect she has too many weirdnesses to be a useful study for any one thing :-)

eta - she has some arthritis and rear end weakness but was a seriously agile escaper when she was young - joints etc pretty good for most of her life.

Edited October 15, 2009 by dwynwen

[~Anne~]

I have had two rescues in with partial tracheal collapse and a foster Pug that had brachy surgery after re-homing and suffered a tracheal collpase and had to have an emergency treacheostomy. One of my foster carers had their elderly Pug die from a total collpase after emergency brachy surgery to try and open up the airways.

In my cases:

Case one had fluid on the lungs and it was assumed it was heart disease. After a specialist consultation and further xrays it was discovered she had a hypoplastic trachea. She had surgery to resect her palate, remove the everted laryngeal saccules and her nares were widened. This was done to help ease the pressure on her respiratory system in the hope that this would ease the pressure on the trachea. She was 7 years old.

Case two also had the palate resected to assit with easing the pressure off the trachea. The trachea walls were weakened due tot he pressure put on them with forced breathing over the years. She was 5 years old.

Case three was a foster dog on behalf of another org. She was re-homed and within a few months had brachy surgery to correct her breathing. Her trachea, already weakend by the strain of breathing was weak and totally collapsed on the second day after surgery. She was raced back to hospital and underwent an emergency tracheostomy. This dog was 4-5 years.

Case four is my foster carers Pug. He was adopted by them at a late age via a friend and suffered symptoms of brachy syndrome. I odfn;t know of any medical details other than he underwent brachy surgery to ease his breathing and he died within days after a tracheal collapse. He was around 10 years of age.

Interestingly, I can not recall any of these dogs suffering from patella issues (not sure about the foster carers Pug though) although I wouldnt neccessarily rule them out.

In my experience, the partial and full collpase has been as a direct result of brachy syndrome. Brachy syndrome also includes narrow and deformed tracheas.

[raz]

One of my terriers has the goose honk. Vet said it's only a doggy hayfever because it basically only happens in spring/summer. Should I have him xrayed?

[Jed]

puggy puggy

I believe that 'Goose honking' or 'reverse sneezing' that most brachy breeds do every now and again is a form of the trachea collapsing.

Do you have any reference to that? My vet doesn't agree with that, and many non-brachy breeds do it.

[~Anne~]

One of my terriers has the goose honk. Vet said it's only a doggy hayfever because it basically only happens in spring/summer. Should I have him xrayed?

Goosehonking and coughing are symptoms of tracheal collapse. They are also symptoms of many other illneses such as heart disease, and elongated palate and irritation of the palate and epiglottis. If your Vet is saying 'heyfever' then I would think he feels it is an irritation of the palate causing the dog to goose honk.

A rescue bitch that I currently have in care, that had her palate resected a couple of weeks ago, goosehonked quite considerably after the surgery due to the irritation of her trachea and soft palate.

Edited October 16, 2009 by PugRescueSydney

[raz]

One of my terriers has the goose honk. Vet said it's only a doggy hayfever because it basically only happens in spring/summer. Should I have him xrayed?

Goosehonking and coughing are symptoms of tracheal collapse. They are also symptoms of many other illneses such as heart disease, and elongated palate and irritation of the palate and epiglottis.

Thanks puggles. Time for a health check I think. This thread has freaked me out a bit - but that's OK. Thanks for the headsup, Steve et al.

eta hmmm while I'm freaking out, as a lot of you know, my pug was diagnosed with a congenital abnormality (narrowing) of her trachea before 12 months of age. She doesnt goose honk. This thread makes me think it is indeed a possibility that she could have tracheal collapse down the track. At what age would I possibly see it?

Edited October 16, 2009 by raz

[~Anne~]

I wouldn't be too concerend with goosehonking. It is rare for a Pug to not goosehonk and not all suffer from such issues as collapsing tracheas.

[raz]

I wouldn't be too concerend with goosehonking. It is rare for a Pug to not goosehonk and not all suffer from such issues as collapsing tracheas.

Yep sure, but it's the narrowing that concerns me for down the track.

Look dont mind me - I freak out if the dogs so much as put their bloody tails down. Worry wart.

[~Anne~]

eta hmmm while I'm freaking out, as a lot of you know, my pug was diagnosed with a congenital abnormality (narrowing) of her trachea before 12 months of age. She doesnt goose honk. This thread makes me think it is indeed a possibility that she could have tracheal collapse down the track. At what age would I possibly see it?

Does she have any other brachy syndrome issues - stenotic nares, elongated palate, everted laryngeal saccules?

It really will depend on a lot of things - her environment, how much she is forced to deal with high temperatures, how fit she is, how much weight she is carrying.

If she hasn't already had surgery to open up her airways as much as possible, assuming there is other brachy syndrome issues, then I would recommend this be done while she is young. The younger they are, the better they deal with and recover from surgery of any kind, particularly brachy surgery.

Best bet is to have a chat to your Vet about it.

[raz]

On the weight issue - nup. It's impossible to put weight on the little bugger. She runs it all off. Very fit little dog.

Nares - yes. Elongated palate - I'm not 100% but dont think it came up.

Thanks for the advice.

eta - elongated palate.

Edited October 16, 2009 by raz

[puggy_puggy]

Interesting correlation Steve. I wonder if it's bad breeding or something much more indepth such as genetic cartliage problems.

puggy puggy

I believe that 'Goose honking' or 'reverse sneezing' that most brachy breeds do every now and again is a form of the trachea collapsing.

Do you have any reference to that? My vet doesn't agree with that, and many non-brachy breeds do it.

Are the non brachy breeds small/toy breeds? I only have experienced it with brachy breeds but I think small/toy breeds such as poodles can have it occur. I am classing any dog with a shortened muzzel as a brachy breed. Pugs, bulldogs, cavs etc.

[raz]

Interesting correlation Steve. I wonder if it's bad breeding or something much more indepth such as genetic cartliage problems.

Why bad breeding?

[puggy_puggy]

Interesting correlation Steve. I wonder if it's bad breeding or something much more indepth such as genetic cartliage problems.

Why bad breeding?

Bad breeding in terms of people breeding less then perfect dogs as it is known that luxating patellas are usually a genetic fault so it might not be far from the truth to think that chronic tracheal collapse is genetic.