Should Small And Big Dogs Behave The Same?

[Blackdiamond73]

I don’t think that anyone is disputing the level of harm potentially caused, relating to size of dog?

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I think people are asking if manners/training/behavior should be consistent for all dogs, regardless of size?

And if so, why are larger dogs not allowed to react?

Who says they're not allowed to react? They shouldn't have to tolerate aggression from any dog.

However, when was the last time you saw a large breed dog confronted by another dog that weighed more than 10 times what it did? No dog should be forced to defend itself but the frequency that larger breeds feel the need to may be less than for small dogs.

I personally believe that if every dog owner took responsibity for the control and safety of their dogs, we'd have a lot fewer of the "small dog vs big dog" threads we see here. They're all dogs and sometimes people need to remember that.

I think PF has hit the nail on the head.

Sometimes a simple thing like a playful wayward paw from a big dog can really hurt a small dog. Big dog owners (and small dog owners too) quite often can't understand this, and the fact that 'he's just playing' doesn't really make any difference.

However, it is up tot he small dog owner to protect their dog from situations like this too, which is why my dog only plays with dogs I know, because he already has fear issues mainly resulting from being hurt by big dogs playing with him (thank you puppy school).

That said I do think small dogs get away with a lot more and I don't necessarily think they should. All dogs should have manners.

[LDR]

All dogs should have manners, agreed. No doubt on that at all.

My boy has lovely on and off lead manners (he's 4kg) thanks to one on work with a trainer from puppydom (best money we EVER spent, we were first time dog owners and the knowledge instilled was just priceless!).

What I do like large breed owners to appreciate though is that their dog is up to, or more then, ten times the size of my boy and is always going to be seeming to be dominant (even if they aren't) to him as he's always going to have to look up to them.

Also, injuries from playing etc are more likely as the sheer weight of a large breed can cause injury, and it has happened to my boy - boofy Benson (an enormous cross breed puppy at the park, gentle as!) caused musle strain.

[montall]

I think it's unrealistic to expect big dogs and little dogs to act in exactly the same way. I have had both over the years and the little ones are usually more fearful, and with good reason, they are dwarfed by the bigger ones. When we first brought Monty home the GSD next door threw itself at the fence trying to get at him time and time again, even though he wasn't in it's face or even acknowledging it's existence.

[wuffles]

I think the same expectations should be in place for any size of dog.

My big dog gets terrorised by smaller dogs quite regularly on our walks (barking, snarling, lunging) and although he tolerates it, it really confuses him. He is a soft boy with a strong flight reflex so he won't retaliate. I hate seeing him shy away from the pomeranians down the street because they constantly bark at him

In saying that, I'm sure that many small dog owners get terrorised by big dogs regularly, hence why I think the same expectations should apply.

[Diva]

Well said, Staranais. Strength & size count in extent of responsibility in the human world, too. If you're going to get a punch in the face, who would you choose to do it...big, beefy bloke who's a mountain of muscle or a dainty little lady?

I'd expect both to be charged with assault, not the little lady excused and laughed about because she is little. That is too often what happens for little dogs.

And if little dog owners are worried about the harm a wayward big paw can do, they need to be as watchful as I am - I don't let my guys go off lead around little unknown dogs and owners and just run up to them, but that caution isn't reciprocated.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Diva

[kritta]

I have always treated/trained my dogs big or small the same. There is nothing cute about a dog jumping all over you, big or small.

Whatever the size they are all dogs.

[mita]

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I think people are asking if manners/training/behavior should be consistent for all dogs, regardless of size?

/quote]

I suggest that socialisation is the elephant in the room re dog behaviour, whatever the size of the dog. The research supports that. Early socialisation of puppies is the base for later manners/training/behaviour. And lack of early socialisation is linked with proneness for later aggression.

Size becomes relevant when it's linked with particular 'at risk' situations. For example, the widespread mis-belief that small size dogs will automatically be non-aggressive & potentially harmless to babies & very small children. And the reasonable belief that small dogs will be at a disadvantage in any argy bargy with big dogs....whatever the dynamics that led to it.

Edited October 13, 2009 by mita

[Danois]

Yes they should.

I am sick of owners of smaller dogs thinking it is ok for their small dog to rush up to mine, aggress and generally behave in an unsocial manner. If the tables are turned - I suspect the small dog owner would have a massive issue if my large dog ran up to theirs and acted in the same manner. I suspect I would have the council ranger on my doorstep before I could say boo.

From what I have seen, many large dogs become reactive to smaller dogs because of repeated instances of this type of behaviour.

[mita]

Well said, Staranais. Strength & size count in extent of responsibility in the human world, too. If you're going to get a punch in the face, who would you choose to do it...big, beefy bloke who's a mountain of muscle or a dainty little lady?

I'd expect both to be charged with assault, not the little lady excused and laughed about because she is little. That is too often what happens for little dogs.

And if little dog owners are worried about the harm a wayward big paw can do, they need to be as watchful as I am - I don't let my guys go off lead around little unknown dogs and owners and just run up to them, but that caution isn't reciprocated.

I expect you went on the read the rest of my quote. Where I said that, in certain situations the dainty little lady would be far more to be feared. And that not all beefy blokes have the mind to do others harm.

The point was extent of harm....& type of harm....& what would be the 'at risk' situations involving each size. Whether humans or dogs.

[wuffles]

And the reasonable belief that small dogs will be at a disadvantage in any argy bargy with big dogs....whatever the dynamics that led to it.

I know in most situations this assumption is correct, but I can almost guarantee that my 40kg dog would come off second best in a fight with a smaller dog. He doesn't defend himself.

[Agility Dogs]

I think I agree with just about everyone in that I think all dogs, regardless of size SHOULD be expected to act the same way. Sadly the reality of it is that the ramifications of bad behaviour for a medium or large dog are much greater than for a small dog. This is what we have to deal with, not the ideal.

On a happy note, I was out walking the other night and we came across a lady with two fluffies. One of them just wanted to say hello (and was being quite polite about it looking to mum for approval), the other one was a terror - barking, snarling and growling at my two BC's.

Mum asked if the little one could say hello and we had a very nice meeting.

Xena never notices other dogs and couldn't care less, but CK can be a policeman when other dogs are rude. In this case though he behaved beautifully and said a very nice hello to the polite little dog, all the while ignoring the barking snarly dog (that was being kept out of harms way).

The lady knows she has a challenge and was really glad of the opportunity to let her nice dog say hello. I thought to myself at the time - what a pleasant change from the usual head bowed heading the other way with the growling dog bouncing around on the end of the lead. She is committed to helping her aggressive dog and I'm looking forward to seeing her next time to see the progress.

[mita]

And the reasonable belief that small dogs will be at a disadvantage in any argy bargy with big dogs....whatever the dynamics that led to it.

I know in most situations this assumption is correct, but I can almost guarantee that my 40kg dog would come off second best in a fight with a smaller dog. He doesn't defend himself.

Well, in that case there'd be no argy bargy. Which is what I was talking about....an actual 2-sided altercation.

[Staranais]

I can actually never recall an incident where I have been annoyed by illegally offleash small dogs. I can remember several incidents where I've been harassed by illegally offleash medium or large breed dogs though.

Perhaps small dogs owners round here are just very polite compared to small dog owners elsewhere. Or perhaps the small breed dog owners we ran into just weren't silly enough to let their small dogs tangle with a staffy since they knew they'd come off second best.

But I think it's a generalisation to say that small dogs tend to have worse manners or be less well controlled than large dogs. That certainly hasn't been my experience, though I have no doubt it must happen sometimes.

[Diva]

But I think it's a generalisation to say that small dogs tend to have worse manners or be less well controlled than large dogs. That certainly hasn't been my experience, though I have no doubt it must happen sometimes.

Not silly enough to let their small dogs tangle with a staffy? You are blessed. In my neighbourhood they are quite happy to let their small dogs leap to bite the faces of two adult sighthounds weighing 45 kg and 36 kgs respectively. They must assume my guys are gentle giants who will take all and any crap without retaliating, but they too are just dogs, and have their limits. I won't be aplogising if they get pushed past them.

[grumpette]

I think I agree with just about everyone in that I think all dogs, regardless of size SHOULD be expected to act the same way. Sadly the reality of it is that the ramifications of bad behaviour for a medium or large dog are much greater than for a small dog. This is what we have to deal with, not the ideal.

I so agree with this comment. The ramifications of bad behaviour for owners of larger breed dogs and their dogs, is definitely a motivator for responsible owners to ensure that their dogs are under control and well behaved AT ALL TIMES.

If a larger breed dog is unruly, if they rush or jump then they are deemed “dangerous”, council rangers are notified and the dogs are declared.

However, if a smaller breed of dog is unruly, if they rush or jump then they are deemed “annoying”, council rangers are NOT notified and the dogs are allowed to continue their behaviour.

Society does not currently make these owners’ accountable for their dogs’ actions.

I totally acknowledge that larger dogs can do more damage than smaller dogs, but all dogs, regardless of size, can and do cause injuries.

So, should not society expect the same good manners from ALL DOGS?

[raz]

However, if a smaller breed of dog is unruly, if they rush or jump then they are deemed “annoying”, council rangers are NOT notified and the dogs are allowed to continue their behaviour.

Really? What Council?

[Diva]

I expect you went on the read the rest of my quote. Where I said that, in certain situations the dainty little lady would be far more to be feared. And that not all beefy blokes have the mind to do others harm.

The point was extent of harm....& type of harm....& what would be the 'at risk' situations involving each size. Whether humans or dogs.

My point was really that the rules should by the same. I don't think it's OK to be bitten by a small or large dog, nor to have my dogs attacked by either, and the risk of harm does not excuse.

I don't think you were saying it does, but it's such a common excuse and one I am very sick of - if the aggression of small dogs damages my young large dog's attitude to dogs in the future, that's harm and harm that it's going to take me a lot of effort to reverse. If small dogs react differently to large I don't care, as long as their reactions are not inflicted on me and mine.

I am mainly talking about on lead walking along footpaths and suburban pathways - in an off lead area there is always the risk of a badly behaved dog and I take that into account. But I shouldn't have to be dodging small out of control dogs on flexi leads or dogs rushing out of yards whose owners think it's all 'cute' and 'harmless'.

Years ago one of my dogs reacted to such an attack by picking the small dog up in his canines and throwing it about 3 metres away. The owner was shocked, but lucky her JRT got away with just 4 puncture wounds. Had my dog wanted to do harm as opposed to just get shot of the pest, the result would have been very different. I can't understand why some people think the onus is on me to protect their dogs because mine are bigger, when mine are on leash, calm and legal, and theirs are off lead, aggressive and out of control. Defies logic.

Apologies for venting, it was a bad weekend for aggro little dogs around here .

Edited October 13, 2009 by Diva

[SwaY]

Yes they should.

I am sick of owners of smaller dogs thinking it is ok for their small dog to rush up to mine, aggress and generally behave in an unsocial manner. If the tables are turned - I suspect the small dog owner would have a massive issue if my large dog ran up to theirs and acted in the same manner. I suspect I would have the council ranger on my doorstep before I could say boo.

From what I have seen, many large dogs become reactive to smaller dogs because of repeated instances of this type of behaviour.

+1

[grumpette]

However, if a smaller breed of dog is unruly, if they rush or jump then they are deemed “annoying”, council rangers are NOT notified and the dogs are allowed to continue their behaviour.

Really? What Council?

Deemed "annoying" by the residents involved and society in general.

The fastest way to get a reaction regarding dog behaviour from councils, media or society in general is to say that the dog involved was "big and black". You do not get the same reaction if you report an attack by "a small black dog".

I acknowledge that previous "reported" incidents’ involving certain breeds is the main reason for this community perception and not just the size of the dog involved.

[MaKoda]

If a large breed acted the same as a small breed it would be seriously frowned upon & deemed dangerous.

And so it should - in either direction. My small dogs have been victimised in the local off leash park by larger dogs. The owner turned to me and said 'oh they're just playing'. Crap. I dont care what size a dog is - they're either well behaved or the owner is at fault. If one of my small dogs acted the same he'd be taken straight home and sin binned.

Its just unfortunate that IME all small dogs get away with this. The sentence you quoted was also refering to mine ALWAYS being on a leash when this happens to me !!

Yes they should.

I am sick of owners of smaller dogs thinking it is ok for their small dog to rush up to mine, aggress and generally behave in an unsocial manner. If the tables are turned - I suspect the small dog owner would have a massive issue if my large dog ran up to theirs and acted in the same manner. I suspect I would have the council ranger on my doorstep before I could say boo.

From what I have seen, many large dogs become reactive to smaller dogs because of repeated instances of this type of behaviour.

ABSOLUTELY !!

That last sentence hit the nail on the head for those small dog owners that dont understand the consquences of their dogs actions. These actions & altercations from small breeds cause long term effects on our large dogs.

And if so, why are larger dogs not allowed to react?

Who says they're not allowed to react? They shouldn't have to tolerate aggression from any dog.

However, when was the last time you saw a large breed dog confronted by another dog that weighed more than 10 times what it did? No dog should be forced to defend itself but the frequency that larger breeds feel the need to may be less than for small dogs.

I personally believe that if every dog owner took responsibity for the control and safety of their dogs, we'd have a lot fewer of the "small dog vs big dog" threads we see here. They're all dogs and sometimes people need to remember that.

I think PF has hit the nail on the head.

Sometimes a simple thing like a playful wayward paw from a big dog can really hurt a small dog. Big dog owners (and small dog owners too) quite often can't understand this, and the fact that 'he's just playing' doesn't really make any difference.

However, it is up tot he small dog owner to protect their dog from situations like this too, which is why my dog only plays with dogs I know, because he already has fear issues mainly resulting from being hurt by big dogs playing with him (thank you puppy school).

That said I do think small dogs get away with a lot more and I don't necessarily think they should. All dogs should have manners.

I bet the % or number of experiences of small dogs rushing/being agressive to large dogs is far greater than the other way. I have always owned large breeds & this is always a major problem, in fact the only problem with owning them.

But I think it's a generalisation to say that small dogs tend to have worse manners or be less well controlled than large dogs. That certainly hasn't been my experience, though I have no doubt it must happen sometimes.

Not silly enough to let their small dogs tangle with a staffy? You are blessed. In my neighbourhood they are quite happy to let their small dogs leap to bite the faces of two adult sighthounds weighing 45 kg and 36 kgs respectively. They must assume my guys are gentle giants who will take all and any crap without retaliating, but they too are just dogs, and have their limits. I won't be aplogising if they get pushed past them.

Wow yes you are lucky, for my Malamute every incident/attack was from a Staffy. His first was at 8mths when we were down the beach & a female Staffy latched onto his throat for no reason, in fact she dragged 2 toddlers several metres (who were holding her on a rope) just to get to him... Nice "effective control" of your dog on their part hey.