What Would You Do?

[Whisper]

okay where to start. at the beginning i guess.

whilst taking my pup for a walk along the beach today with my MIL and her dog we stopped to talk to a couple with there two toddlers staying at the campsite next door.

i left mum talking to them then went up to teach my dog the over trick at the seperation between the campsites. we did this for a few minutes then let him go for a chase of the sea gulls. thought this was great he did.

i called him back and picked up his lead (still attached) and walked over to mum. the little boy came over about eye level with my pup and he attacked him. he jumped up snarled snapped bared his teeth etc. his front paws almost clawed the child's face and i think if he wasn't on the lead he may of bitten this child.

he was severly punished being grabbed by the collar, looked in the eyes and said no, bad dog. he also got a quick slap on his behind which stopped his behaviour. i grabbed his collar kept him to heel and took him back to our campsite and tied him up.

i went back down to the beach luckily the child did not appear to be injured only frightened he was about 2 and likes all dogs. my mum's dog a shitzu helped ease the tension and the children played with him as dog believes he was placed on this planet for everyone's attention.

i was and am still very shaken as the only time i saw him act like this was with the two teenage boys at the park who were trying to kick him and coming to the tip of his nose as they rode by on bikes, other than that he appears to be fine. he is great with adults and us so we didn't think children would be a problem as he plays with my 6 year old sister fine.

i am very glad the couple were nice and the child was not injured in any way and did not scare him away from the other dog. i have decided to muzzle my dog 24/7 incase he gets out (we caretake a campsite, next week we are fully booked out for Christmas with alot of children around) and i can not afford him to jump the fence which he can if he really wants well i guess, he got out one day and nothing was open (i stupidly taught him to jump and to go over things getting a head start on some training).

wondering what you would do in this situation. would you keep the dog muzzled at all times, tie him up, get rid of him, get him put to sleep (prefer not to unless absolutely neccessary(had already decided if he had injured the child i would of)).

i am really nervous having him in the yard, because i am beginning to distrust his temperment.

any advice would be appreciated greatly.

thanks.

P.s he is either a labrador cross border collie (previous owners told us this)

only had him a month

or the vet thinks he is a german shephard cross

Edited December 11, 2004 by Whisper

[cavNrott]

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Edited December 13, 2008 by cavNrott

[Rusky]

you need to read the reply workndog gave you to your feeding problem and use that in conjunction with Annes reply.

You and your puppy need an obedience trainer.

A trainer does not train your puppy but gives you the skills required to train your dog yourself.

Good luck Whisper and to your wee pup

[NorthernStarPits]

Socilization, Socilization, Socilization, prevention is the best cure, but now you have to deal with correction. Do something now ie;profecional training,otherwise you may end up with one of those dogs that" cant go anywear"

[Whisper]

communication with my dog (don't understand sorry)

mum's done the training with the trainer we use that knowledge and the veterinary nurse who was training me at the vet i used to work for was a qualified instructor she gave me heaps of tips for my other dog who passed away, i use the same knowledge for my pup now.

not wanting to start a debate at all or no disrespect intended the smacking stopped the behaviour immediately causing pup to drop to all fours and look at me away from the children.i can see how smacking can be detrimental to pup as well and have not smacked pup in a while until today so am heading everyone's advice here so thanks.

edited to add: when in Perth was at the dog beach and park daily was fine with people there and appeared fine with all the children would let him off lead. is fine with other dogs and pets except chooks different story there though and normally anyone bigger than him.

Edited December 11, 2004 by Whisper

[Tralee]

Hi Whisper.

Well, your dog is still a pup, so there is some training ahead for both of you.

The powers that be are wiser than credited for enacting the 'leash laws' for in this instance they have saved your bacon. So, I wouldn't be too hasty to condemn your pup.

The leash laws were enacted in the first place to protect the public, and in this instance they have done. But more importantly, where we are concerned as dog owners, they were enacted to prevent unnecessary heartache from the inevitable result of an unforseen dog bite.

Dogs are unpredictable and the wise are aware that they can be provoked out of their normal character. Sometimes dogs just act like dogs and bite.

I would view the situation as a perfect opportunity for you and your pup to get going on reinforcing and extinguishing the behaviours he/she needs to have.

Babies and dogs are an explosive combination. Dogs recognize that a baby is just another pup, albeit a human one. I suggest you keep that in mind.

I would expect that you must pen, crate or muzzle (as a last resort) your pup until you are confident he/she will behave.

So, get those babies to work for you, socialize your pup, keep the antecedents positive and your pup should not have any cause to feel threatened.

And good Luck.

Edited December 11, 2004 by pewithers

[Whisper]

yes i am really glad i had the leash on my dog as every day we take him to the beach we let him off have a long run a game of fetch and a swim, but today as i saw they were little kids i kept the leash on him should i need to catch him only letting the leash go when i was some distance away at the campsite seperators.

i'm not sure of what penning or crating is i guess some sought of cage??? where do i go about finding crates etc?? i don't particularily want to lock him up that's why was thinking muzzle but if it is neccessary.

mum put her foot down and said if it happens again whether he bites or not i have to get him put down (praying it doesn't happen again-personally i would try rehome him away from kids)

thanks for the advice am taking it all in. rather this than a law suit and a poor child injured.

[cavNrott]

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Edited December 13, 2008 by cavNrott

[Tralee]

Hey Whisper.

Obviously you are responsible enough to use a leash appropriately and if I was your pup I would think I was in good hands.

I would think that you will need to confine your pup, instead of teathering him/her or muzzling it. If people see a muzzled dog they will think it is vicious and act accordingly. The dog will want to please them and will act vicious. There isn't a single person here who would support you using a muzzle.

A crate is an escape proof compound, whereas a pen also blocks out sights and sounds.

I think your mum is justifiably concerned but if you believe in you pup (and if anyone knows this dog it is the closest one to it) then you have to go in to bat for him/her.

Listen. If you can get your dog to behave for six months then you have a cured dog.

You could just remind mum that it's a dog, not an angel . And we aren't angels either.

I hope this helps.

[cavNrott]

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Edited December 13, 2008 by cavNrott

[Whisper]

i believe the look also corrected my dog's behaviour. i can 80% of the time with words get dog to sit, stay, drop, and come.

if he has been told and disobeys all i need say is uh or ah and looking directly at him commanding his attention into my eyey a little and he stops. i do realise a lok can say a thousand words and it does make it easier to get my dog to obey me. if i command him of something i make sure i am looking him directly in my eyes or i signal where i want him to be.

i know he is testing m e i see it in his eyes he says to me you say that i will try this and see the response i get.

i found the training tips i recieved from the veterinary nurse who as i aid was a qualified trainer at the training around the corner from where i used to live unfortuantely was on a tues night only and i worked.

i have just moved and am yet to find a dog traingin school in busselton don't know my way around much either if oyu know of any wa'ers let me know please as i do want to get him involved in obedience possibly and agility.

he is a avery clever yet trying dog always pushing.

i have been training him since the day i got him correcting him of his past training from previous owners as this is his bad habits they had no discipline as where he was staying it wasn't there dog but the owner lived away in the navy very rarely seeing pup so i don't think he had any basic training what so ever that is why they were giving him away.

i have been trying to correct his disobedience and have worked out several faults, he is now obeying me most of the time.

i notice the two dogs often rumble for pack order not sure of what it is as he is very placid with other pup and kitten all i need say is friends and he calms right down, his little attack took me by surprise today.

[Whisper]

okay so sought of like a high fenced wire cage like the police dogs are kept in?? or is it like a dog carrier only bigger??

i could get one of those placed in the back yard dad will make it if i ask nicely (

okay if muzzling is not reccommended all the time would you reccommend it if i took him for a walk or not at all??

we moved a week and a half ago and before the move we never noticed or noted any really bad behavioural problems, his training seemed to be going well until the move and now his temperment, behaviour etc has changed like all the training we did went out the window.

6 months and he is cured hey is that in or out of the yard as well.

i am 6 months off of getting married and then hope to start a childlike family need to know i can trust my dog with other children i also know to introduce babies slowly and let dog know that he hasn't been demoted so to speak in pack order.

will remind mum as her dog is no angels it thinks chickens are meals on wings tee hee hee bad joke okay sorry but i don't want him to be PTS for something that i agree is not his fault i know the previous family had young children maybe something happened that i wasn't aware of. they were not forth coming with any of his temperment, behavioural problems or anything like that. was very very skittish for first week cowered, wet everywhere, wouldn't have a bar of his leash, couldn't bed him although they had a kennel etc.

thankyou for advice am reading it and drinking it all in.

[Rusky]

I am sure there is a club in Bussleton

Ring Bunbury however and they will give you any info I am sure.

BUNBURY & DISTRICTS DOG CLUB INC Bunbury (08) 9721 4257

[cavNrott]

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Edited December 13, 2008 by cavNrott

[Tralee]

Excuse me whisper.

Hi anne. I'm sorry if I haven't introduced myself.

Your points may be Valid, but counselling and guidance about how to manage dogs must surely be about giving the owner hope and encouragement without condeming them for a lack of knowledge or experience.

Why are people on this forum unable to expand their vast knowledge and experience to communication on a human level without repeatedly talking through people to the dogs?

People don't want to hear others continually intimate that they are idiots and must defer to, and consult professionals. Maybe; if all else fails.

Whisper, the best way to learn how to live with a dog, and get a dog to live with you, is to simply just go and do it.

Chin up.

PS Say high to your pup for me.

[Whisper]

thanks for the bunbury number rusky i will give them a call.

before i go any further please excuse my typing it is attrocious tnite i know.

i reward with food, petting and toys when we are having a training session and he responds well to either. i haven't done any training with him around little little kids as we have had none around. i assumed (guesses this is wrong) that because he is alright with my sister he would be fine with kids. and also as he is fine with the shitzu and my 10wk old kitten again he would be safe.

we only let him off lead if we are around and there is noone else otherwise he stays on the lead and i let it go, (needds to invest in an extendable lead for beach play) so that if need be i can grab it. around the children today i had ahold of his lead.

the trainign has been going well with pup obnly a few hiccups errupt here and there hence what i have written about.

he was only puinshed with collar correction as put today as it was the easiest way with the lead in hand also to keep him to heel heavn't quite trained him to heel yet he still pulls and runs ahead am making progress though. holding his collar meant i had complete control over him.

my dog is pretty strong and i stand a measly 5 foot short i know the dog is already wasit height on me on all fours shoulder height standing up so he can be quite dominating in appearance although i did think he was placid today am not sure though.

hi pewithers i have only had one dog that lived past puppy hood in my life i am only 19 (now this may make people think i am a nuicanse teenager bue i aint i love all animals and i wouldn't want to hurt them) that was a boxer who died five months ago at 11 she choked whilst i was at work i still get tears in my eyes thinking about her.

i wanted another pup from the time she died she wouldn't of wanted me to bne lonely. i wanted a boxer, fiance wanted a rotti we compromised and got a freebie out of paper he was 16 weeks had him a month now, as i said no forthcoming info on pup at all.

i sometimes do feel intimadated at the way people respond i am not a breeder or shower nor wish to be i want a friend for life and thats what i am trainign for. ever dog will have a hiccup no such thing as a perfect trained dog no matter what any one tells me i have seen even police dogs do bad things

thankyou for being so nice and friendly pewithers your advice is justified and i agree with you i will say hi for you, you do the same to your pets please.

thanks so far my knowledge is expanding ( i think

[cavNrott]

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Edited December 13, 2008 by cavNrott

[Whisper]

i am heeding all advice and do not want to cause arguments. i do not want him PTS and i will be putting into practice everything ia m reading to help the situation. if worst comes to worst i hope it doesn't i will try rehome him away from kids. we'll see what tomorrow brings. a new day a new beginnign

[Rusky]

Whisper

only 19 years old but you are so lucky to have the insight to know that you need help.

I watched your defence in other posts but this one makes me realise you really are asking for help.

You need it now as Ann says, read her post well.

Ring the number, I am sure someone will help you.

My feeling is you have given this pup so many mixed messages with the best of intentions that he is now confused and maybe even afraid.

Please reward with food and pats and good boy for good behaviour.

Please feed him separately from the cat and Mums dog, don't let them see each other eating. (I am refering to your previous feeding post)

If he needs a secure run make sure has shade, shelter fresh water, toys, buy him a kong and load with treats like cheese, biscuits, vegemite, etc.

Please don't smack or chain check, he is still too young for collar check, can hurt him. I don't like collar check in any case but even in old style training a pup so young didn't have collar check.

Good luck to you both.

[Guest Tess32]

not wanting to start a debate at all or no disrespect intended the smacking stopped the behaviour immediately causing pup to drop to all fours and look at me away from the children.i can see how smacking can be detrimental to pup as well and have not smacked pup in a while until today so am heading everyone's advice here so thanks.

Be very careful with corrections after such an event. I saw a woman a few weeks ago smacking her rottie in the head with her mobile phone because he was barking at our dog.

There are the issues iwth making your dog afraid of you etc etc, but the reason why

it's very dangerous in *these* kind of situations is that it can make the behaviour worse because he may associate smacking with the child, and that can quickly move to child = bad.

Nat