Raw Meat And Neosporosis

[teekay]

Hi Everyone, there appears to be some very knoweledgeable people on here so I was hoping someone could help put my mind at rest about something.

I am in the process of introducing raw food into Jenna's diet. She is nearly 5 months old now and I have been giving her a chicken thigh and some veggies/fruit for breakfast and her kibble for lunch and dinner. The chicken thigh is swapped for sardines one day a week and lamb's kidney one other day. So far so good, she has eaten everything and her stomach appears to have tolerated everything well.

My slight concern is Neosporosis. My Labrador Holly was pts in April this year suffering from a severe neurological disease. We did not manage to get a definitive diagnosis but one of the tests that came back as "a weak positive" was for Neosporosis. I know this is found in raw meat, especially beef, and wondered if anyone had ever encountered it. It is more prevalent in puppies, so now I am wondering whether I am doing the right thing feeding Jenna raw. I don't give her raw beef and, as you can see, most of her raw diet is chicken with the exception of the Lambs kidneys. I suppose I could give her chicken livers, instead, maybe? Is there a problem only feeding her chicken? Is Neopsporosis definitely not in chicken?

Sorry for all the questions

Cheers

[Nekhbet]

the neosporosis in your lab could have been a secondary infection or was the dog already on treatments for neo before the tests?

if you are feeding human quality food I don't see the problem. Store it like you would your own and dont let the dog drag it around for long periods and on hot days. My dogs get human quality from the butcher as well as rabbits we hunt and eat ourselves, no one has had any problems.

[Staranais]

According to my vet parasite lecturer, they're still not entirely sure which animals Neospora can affect, since they keep finding it in more and more animals. They used to think it was just cycling between dogs and cattle, but they've since found it in other ruminants, in horses, and they can give it to rodents and primates as well experimentally. It's mostly just a problem in cattle though, and to my knowledge not a terribly common one even there.

Human quality meat is much much safer than "pet" quality meat but is still not 100% guaranteed to be free of this type of problem. The meat inspections at the works will pick up any obvious protozoan parasite issues with the meat, but can't 100% guarantee that some cysts won't slip through.

However, I wouldn't want to personally base a raw diet on mostly chicken with little or no red meat. I'd worry that it was low in iron or zinc. Dogs aren't supposed to live on a mostly-bird diet, IMO.

You should be fine feeding lamb or beef meat to your dog, especially if it's human quality meat, and if you want to be sure you can freeze it before feeding to your dogs (at least 7 days below 10 degrees C is supposed to kill the cysts).

It's actually illegal in NZ to feed dogs raw offal or unfrozen sheep or goat meat, mostly due to the hydatids (Echinococcus) and sheep measles (Taenia) problems rather than Neospora, though. Not sure what the case is in Australia.

As for feeding chicken livers instead of sheep or beef livers, the main nutritional difference I know of is that chicken livers are much much lower in copper than cow or sheep livers are, liver is where a raw fed dogs gets most of their copper from so I'm not sure if that could have a negative effect on a dog in the long term. I'd probably rather feed cooked beef liver than raw chicken livers, if it were me making that choice. (What I normally actually do is buy human quality liver and kidney and give it a good freezing then feed raw - a little bit naughty, but I've had no issues so far, nor heard of anyone else doing this having issues).

[teekay]

According to my vet parasite lecturer, they're still not entirely sure which animals Neospora can affect, since they keep finding it in more and more animals. They used to think it was just cycling between dogs and cattle, but they've since found it in other ruminants, in horses, and they can give it to rodents and primates as well experimentally. It's mostly just a problem in cattle though, and to my knowledge not a terribly common one even there.

Human quality meat is much much safer than "pet" quality meat but is still not 100% guaranteed to be free of this type of problem. The meat inspections at the works will pick up any obvious protozoan parasite issues with the meat, but can't 100% guarantee that some cysts won't slip through.

However, I wouldn't want to personally base a raw diet on mostly chicken with little or no red meat. I'd worry that it was low in iron or zinc. Dogs aren't supposed to live on a mostly-bird diet, IMO.

You should be fine feeding lamb or beef meat to your dog, especially if it's human quality meat, and if you want to be sure you can freeze it before feeding to your dogs (at least 7 days below 10 degrees C is supposed to kill the cysts).

It's actually illegal in NZ to feed dogs raw offal or unfrozen sheep or goat meat, mostly due to the hydatids (Echinococcus) and sheep measles (Taenia) problems rather than Neospora, though. Not sure what the case is in Australia.

As for feeding chicken livers instead of sheep or beef livers, the main nutritional difference I know of is that chicken livers are much much lower in copper than cow or sheep livers are, liver is where a raw fed dogs gets most of their copper from so I'm not sure if that could have a negative effect on a dog in the long term. I'd probably rather feed cooked beef liver than raw chicken livers, if it were me making that choice. (What I normally actually do is buy human quality liver and kidney and give it a good freezing then feed raw - a little bit naughty, but I've had no issues so far, nor heard of anyone else doing this having issues).

Thanks for the info about freezing the meat first. I didn't know that

[Jed]

One of the members of DOL had a dog die from Neospora. If you search neospora, Bommy and boxer, you may well get the thread up again.

Always freeze meat.

[Bullbreedlover]

Bovine neosporosis (Neosporum Caninum) is a protozoan parasite which

infects the heart, brain and other tissues of the developing fetus

and can result in abortion. Neospora requires a two-host life

cycle. A dog that has eaten infected placental material or cyst

material from the brain, spinal cord, retina or possibly offal of

infected cattle develops eggs in the intestines which are passed in

the feces, which in turn can be ingested by the cattle.

Adult cattle do not develop clinical disease following infection, but

it can cause abortion of infected foetus or neurological disease of

the newborn or young calf.

Neosporosis caninum does not affect people.

The most common transmission of neosporosis is called Vertical

transmission, which is the passage of parasites from the maternal

blood to foetal blood.

A definite diagnosis of neospora abortion is difficult, the diagnosis

requires submission of a sample of aborted foetus to a diagnostic lab

for microscopic examination before a definite diagnosis of N.

Caninum can be made.

Neosporosis caninum can also infect puppies through vertical

transmission, though it apparently can affect dogs of all ages. The

most consistent sign of canine neosporosis is paralysis of limbs,

especially hind limbs. There are several serological tests that can

detect antibodies to neosporosis infection in dogs. The parasite

causes brain lesions with following neurological problems, and there

is little chance of recovery with most infected dogs being euthanised.

By far the highest incidence of neosporosis caninum in dogs has been

found among farm dogs. One of the main sources of infection for dogs

is eating aborted foetal material or placenta or offal from infected

cattle. It is highly unlikely for muscle tissue to have cysts,

tissue cysts of N. Caninum are not normally observed in muscle tissue

of adult cattle. Raw beef would have little chance of infecting

dogs, and it is considered that freezing would kill it, but cysts

that form in neural tissues are resistant to freezing surviving up to

14 days at 4c but non-infective after 24 hours at

-20c.

There has not been a whole lot of study on Neosporum Caninum, and

there are

conflicting reports on sites on the web, the majority of this

presented information is derived from research Institutes and from

email discussion with a Scottish research scientist.

Her final email states "We believe one of the main sources of

infection for dogs would be eating aborted foetal material or

placenta or offal from infected cattle.

If your feedstuffs do not contain this material and have been frozen

they should not be a major infection source for dogs."

Due to cost, it is no doubt correct to assume that our working

gundogs are fed on frozen dog roll and dry dog food, or frozen MAF

approved fresh meat mixes.

We can only wonder who would allow their dog access to eating

aborted foetal material or placentas, and/or feeds uncooked offal to

their dogs...

[KJ]

I had a lab puppy who, at 6 weeks of age, developed puppy strangles and was put on cortisone, which further weakend her already weak immune system and she was affected by neospora. At 10 weeks old she became paralysed in her hind legs, she did respond to treatment and lots of physio and was up and walking but at 12 weeks, after doing so well, she was again unable to walk and gave me that look that told me she had had enough

She was fed raw human grade beef mince. None of her litter mates were affected.

[Jed]

That's horrible, KJ, I do feel for you and the pup. Such a sad thing to happen

Adult dogs I've heard of with neospora contracted it from beef. I think the dog on here, from human grade beef, not offal or aborted foetal material.

I would not, now, feed any meat to dogs unless it had been frozen and thawed. It's unusual, certainly, but there is sufficient evidence to suggest that meat should be frozen to be quite safe.

Found the thread - there are links to more information there. And I notice the recommendation is to cook the food!! No idea why I thought it should be frozen, must have got that somewhere else?

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...amp;hl=neospora

Edited October 10, 2009 by Jed

[teekay]

That's horrible, KJ, I do feel for you and the pup. Such a sad thing to happen

Adult dogs I've heard of with neospora contracted it from beef. I think the dog on here, from human grade beef, not offal or aborted foetal material.

I would not, now, feed any meat to dogs unless it had been frozen and thawed. It's unusual, certainly, but there is sufficient evidence to suggest that meat should be frozen to be quite safe.

Found the thread - there are links to more information there. And I notice the recommendation is to cook the food!! No idea why I thought it should be frozen, must have got that somewhere else?

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...amp;hl=neospora

Thanks Jed for the link. I have done alot of research on the net about this and alot of reading old posts on DOL. Lots and lots of info out there, most of which still indicates that freezing at -20degreesC should kill the protozoa that causes Neospora. Having said that I still have not fed Jenna raw beef and I'm not sure I will ever be comfortable doing so.

[Erny]

Resurrecting an old thread here, save creating a new one.

My boy is a bit "off and on" his food (reasons why is another story, but we think relates to his stomach becoming irriated). It doesn't seem to be the food itself that causes it, although he doesn't do well with pork and seems to reject lamb more often than not.

So, for a variation to his diet (I'll feed him whatever it is that he will eat, provided it is good for him, other than pork), I picked up some calf liver from the butcher's today.

Can I please confirm with those who know, that I'd be best to freeze this, and then thaw it, before I feed it? Or would it be best to cook it before I feed it? I've read through the posts here, but I'm still being left feeling uncertain.

That's if he'll eat it at all. My question might end up proving to be moot, if he doesn't eat it regardless of what I do with it.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Erny

[Bullbreedlover]

Resurrecting an old thread here, save creating a new one.

My boy is a bit "off and on" his food (reasons why is another story, but we think relates to his stomach becoming irriated). It doesn't seem to be the food itself that causes it, although he doesn't do well with pork and seems to reject lamb more often than not.

So, for a variation to his diet (I'll feed him whatever it is that he will eat, provided it is good for him, other than pork), I picked up some calf liver from the butcher's today.

Can I please confirm with those who know, that I'd be best to freeze this, and then thaw it, before I feed it? Or would it be best to cook it before I feed it? I've read through the posts here, but I'm still being left feeling uncertain.

That's if he'll eat it at all. My question might end up proving to be moot, if he doesn't eat it regardless of what I do with it.

I cook any offal I feed to my dogs Erny. I dont buy huge batches of it but when I do I cook it straight away and then freeze the cooked portions to last 2 days max when thawed.

[Erny]

I cook any offal I feed to my dogs Erny. I dont buy huge batches of it but when I do I cook it straight away and then freeze the cooked portions to last 2 days max when thawed.

Thanks - that's what I've done in the past for my previous girl, although she didn't like it much anyway, so I ended up giving most away or using it as treats for some dogs.

Is cooking better than 'freezing and thawing and then feeding raw', do you know?

[Erny]

Just spoke with Mandela's Naturopath (a bit rough when your dog has one, but you don't ;) LOL) and was advised feed raw, but only after it has been frozen for 2 weeks.

[Bullbreedlover]

I cook any offal I feed to my dogs Erny. I dont buy huge batches of it but when I do I cook it straight away and then freeze the cooked portions to last 2 days max when thawed.

Thanks - that's what I've done in the past for my previous girl, although she didn't like it much anyway, so I ended up giving most away or using it as treats for some dogs.

Is cooking better than 'freezing and thawing and then feeding raw', do you know?

I was trying to think back to when we had dosing days in NZ, Not the same I know as this was hydatids dosing but the requirement way back then (and still is from memory) is at least 2 weeks freezing or thoroughly cook the offal.

I have tried my dogs on a little bit of thawed offal and they refused to eat it LOL . I think cause it was all slippery and they are just fussy buggars who dont like ikky things.

[manthy89]

It's actually illegal in NZ to feed dogs raw offal or unfrozen sheep or goat meat, mostly due to the hydatids (Echinococcus) and sheep measles (Taenia) problems rather than Neospora, though. Not sure what the case is in Australia.

Is it? Im confused, there are many raw dog foods on the market in nz that contain offal of sheep (lamb)