More 'assessed' Dangerous Breeds At Blacktown Pound

[butch's dad]

So, hypothetically, could someone rock up and claim it's their dog. Pay the fines and then go through the BA and TT process?

yes hypothetically you could. However we went through all the official channels and thankfully found the pound manager to plead our case to. This morning we got the news that the Sydney rescue group helping with this fella's rescue was granted a release of the dog (assessed as pitbull x) and will be served with a NOI.

So we are thankful for that outcome and the fact that Blacktown pound saw fit to give this little guy a fighting chance.

Will let you know in 28 days time how his assessment goes and what they come up with for a breed assessment for this guy.

No need to wait 28 days to update us, the NOI will be there next week and you can book the breed assessor of your choice as soon as you get it. The clock is ticking from the day of the NOI and you have 28 days from the date of issue to get the BA and TT done if required.

Good news that a rescue is demonstrating that they are willing to go through the official channels for this one and that the pound has agreed to it. This also means that if the pup passes BA and TT, that he can be adopted out and the person adopting will never have to worry if the dog comes under scrutiny in the future.

SBT123 - the assessor of our choice? I thought that Dogs NSW appointed an assessor after we had contacted them? If this is not the case, where do we get a list of assessors in our area from?

And yes, we do it by the book. That way we may even be able to change the 'trend' for future dogs labelled pitbullx by pound staff.

Off topic - it was wonderful to see a representative from Blacktown Pound at the No Kill conference. Pity other councils weren't so interested.

[WreckitWhippet]

So, hypothetically, could someone rock up and claim it's their dog. Pay the fines and then go through the BA and TT process?

yes hypothetically you could. However we went through all the official channels and thankfully found the pound manager to plead our case to. This morning we got the news that the Sydney rescue group helping with this fella's rescue was granted a release of the dog (assessed as pitbull x) and will be served with a NOI.

So we are thankful for that outcome and the fact that Blacktown pound saw fit to give this little guy a fighting chance.

Will let you know in 28 days time how his assessment goes and what they come up with for a breed assessment for this guy.

No need to wait 28 days to update us, the NOI will be there next week and you can book the breed assessor of your choice as soon as you get it. The clock is ticking from the day of the NOI and you have 28 days from the date of issue to get the BA and TT done if required.

Good news that a rescue is demonstrating that they are willing to go through the official channels for this one and that the pound has agreed to it. This also means that if the pup passes BA and TT, that he can be adopted out and the person adopting will never have to worry if the dog comes under scrutiny in the future.

SBT123 - the assessor of our choice? I thought that Dogs NSW appointed an assessor after we had contacted them? If this is not the case, where do we get a list of assessors in our area from?

And yes, we do it by the book. That way we may even be able to change the 'trend' for future dogs labelled pitbullx by pound staff.

Off topic - it was wonderful to see a representative from Blacktown Pound at the No Kill conference. Pity other councils weren't so interested.

Dogs NSW do not appoint the assessor for you ( although plenty of them are judges and dogs members ) . When you get you NOI, you can call the DLG and they will send you out a list of breed assessors to choose from. This applies to both assessors and temp testers.

You can choose anyone you like from anywhere in the state ( at your expense as you pay for their travel or you travel to them ).

[tybrax]

'butch's dad' date='2nd Oct 2009 - 03:13 PM' post='4020977'

assessed as pitbull x

I am not overly familiar with Bull breeds and would personally struggle to make a cross breed assessment, but I can't understand how it's possible to determine a Pitbull X???. An Amstaff X could easily have Pitbull similarities........and who knows what appearance any crossbreed combination can have the potential to produce??? I seriously fail to comprehend why a Bull breed of unknown origin is so often assumed to contain APBT, a big call which is rather senseless given that it's virtually impossible to determine that "fact"

They can't thats the whole problem with BSL its based on fraud.

tybrax

[GeckoTree]

A few months ago someone had a pup assessed in a Mcdonalds car park of all places, It was the worst story i have ever read on here about how its done, by whome, an amstaff breeder of all people, why, and the outcome.

I wish i could remember the name of who it was that was the OP in that thread, so you could email them to find the name of who not to pick.

Thats the thread tybrax.

I couldnt find it, I looked for ages lol.

Edited October 3, 2009 by GeckoTree

[tybrax]

This is the link your talking about GekoTree?

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=169290

tybrax

[Diablo]

'butch's dad' date='2nd Oct 2009 - 03:13 PM' post='4020977'

assessed as pitbull x

I am not overly familiar with Bull breeds and would personally struggle to make a cross breed assessment, but I can't understand how it's possible to determine a Pitbull X???. An Amstaff X could easily have Pitbull similarities........and who knows what appearance any crossbreed combination can have the potential to produce??? I seriously fail to comprehend why a Bull breed of unknown origin is so often assumed to contain APBT, a big call which is rather senseless given that it's virtually impossible to determine that "fact"

They can't thats the whole problem with BSL its based on fraud.

tybrax

I have personally never seen a dog confirmed as pure breed APBT and the couple that I thought may have been were papered Amstaffs. Given that the APBT is not a common breed due to it's restrictions and the ones in captivity I would assume are well contained due to legislation, the likelyhood of a crossbreed containing genuine APBT in this day and age would be very slim, if at all. The Bull breed experienced people would have more insight into this than myself, but what honestly is the likehood that the crossbreeds supposedly containing APBT are correctly assessed???. Looking at the big picture taking everything into account, would I be correct in the opinion that dogs containing genuine APBT would be in fact few and far bewteen???.

[Juno's Mum]

Oh, this has made me sooooo sad

My husband wont let me get another dog so soon, but this poor little guy :D

He looks so sweet and inocent.

I really hope he is saved somehow.

-Tina

[Kobayashi]

Good news that a rescue is demonstrating that they are willing to go through the official channels for this one and that the pound has agreed to it. This also means that if the pup passes BA and TT, that he can be adopted out and the person adopting will never have to worry if the dog comes under scrutiny in the future.

I was always curious about that part. If a dog makes it through the pound process and adopted out as an amstaff cross, then they cant come back later and change their minds?

[WreckitWhippet]

Good news that a rescue is demonstrating that they are willing to go through the official channels for this one and that the pound has agreed to it. This also means that if the pup passes BA and TT, that he can be adopted out and the person adopting will never have to worry if the dog comes under scrutiny in the future.

I was always curious about that part. If a dog makes it through the pound process and adopted out as an amstaff cross, then they cant come back later and change their minds?

example 1. Puppy that looks to be a run of the mill bull breed cross is put up for adoption by pound, listed as Staffy cross. Pup adopted out and goes to nice home. Dog is later spotted by a ranger ( doesn't matter where in NSW ) and says " that's a restricted breed " and issues an NOI, they will have to prove it's not, regardless of what the pound listed the dog as , when put up for adoption

Example 2. using the pup in this thread. Pup is thought to be a resticted breed. Pound gives rescue the option of taking NOI and going through the BA and TT. Pup passes BA and is said to be "Staffy cross " , pup can never again have breed questioned as the breed assessors decision is final, it's recorded against microchip.

If the pup is assessed as a restricted breed cross, then they have the option of going to temp test, if they pass that, then again it's all recorded against chip and the pup is home free again.

Personally, i think given the current BSL climate, rescue should be requesting NOI's and having all bull breed and crosses assesed prior to adoption, so that the person adopting never has to go through the process of council suspecting their puppy or mature dog is of a "restricted breed or cross ".

[butch's dad]

Good news that a rescue is demonstrating that they are willing to go through the official channels for this one and that the pound has agreed to it. This also means that if the pup passes BA and TT, that he can be adopted out and the person adopting will never have to worry if the dog comes under scrutiny in the future.

I was always curious about that part. If a dog makes it through the pound process and adopted out as an amstaff cross, then they cant come back later and change their minds?

example 1. Puppy that looks to be a run of the mill bull breed cross is put up for adoption by pound, listed as Staffy cross. Pup adopted out and goes to nice home. Dog is later spotted by a ranger ( doesn't matter where in NSW ) and says " that's a restricted breed " and issues an NOI, they will have to prove it's not, regardless of what the pound listed the dog as , when put up for adoption

Example 2. using the pup in this thread. Pup is thought to be a resticted breed. Pound gives rescue the option of taking NOI and going through the BA and TT. Pup passes BA and is said to be "Staffy cross " , pup can never again have breed questioned as the breed assessors decision is final, it's recorded against microchip.

If the pup is assessed as a restricted breed cross, then they have the option of going to temp test, if they pass that, then again it's all recorded against chip and the pup is home free again.

Personally, i think given the current BSL climate, rescue should be requesting NOI's and having all bull breed and crosses assesed prior to adoption, so that the person adopting never has to go through the process of council suspecting their puppy or mature dog is of a "restricted breed or cross ".

I understand where you are coming from SBT123 however this is a costly process and given rescues are working on a shoe string as it is, you would find bull breeds would be looked over for rescue in favour of small dogs with no breed issues.

And why target just rescues, this could also go for breeders. You may be interested to find that I know of a dog (a ridgeback actually) that was labelled a pitbull x in the pound until the breeder came forward and claimed the dog as one of her own that she had rehomed and it was indeed a pure ridgeback.

One of the reasons we have these problems is because pound staff, whether right or wrong, are not properly trained to identify breeds so they make a 'best guess' out of fear that if they don't label a dog a restricted breed x and after release the dog attacks they will be held accountable.

Let's just wipe out BSL and start making owners, regardless of breed of dog, accountable!

[WreckitWhippet]

Good news that a rescue is demonstrating that they are willing to go through the official channels for this one and that the pound has agreed to it. This also means that if the pup passes BA and TT, that he can be adopted out and the person adopting will never have to worry if the dog comes under scrutiny in the future.

I was always curious about that part. If a dog makes it through the pound process and adopted out as an amstaff cross, then they cant come back later and change their minds?

example 1. Puppy that looks to be a run of the mill bull breed cross is put up for adoption by pound, listed as Staffy cross. Pup adopted out and goes to nice home. Dog is later spotted by a ranger ( doesn't matter where in NSW ) and says " that's a restricted breed " and issues an NOI, they will have to prove it's not, regardless of what the pound listed the dog as , when put up for adoption

Example 2. using the pup in this thread. Pup is thought to be a resticted breed. Pound gives rescue the option of taking NOI and going through the BA and TT. Pup passes BA and is said to be "Staffy cross " , pup can never again have breed questioned as the breed assessors decision is final, it's recorded against microchip.

If the pup is assessed as a restricted breed cross, then they have the option of going to temp test, if they pass that, then again it's all recorded against chip and the pup is home free again.

Personally, i think given the current BSL climate, rescue should be requesting NOI's and having all bull breed and crosses assesed prior to adoption, so that the person adopting never has to go through the process of council suspecting their puppy or mature dog is of a "restricted breed or cross ".

I understand where you are coming from SBT123 however this is a costly process and given rescues are working on a shoe string as it is, you would find bull breeds would be looked over for rescue in favour of small dogs with no breed issues.

And why target just rescues, this could also go for breeders. You may be interested to find that I know of a dog (a ridgeback actually) that was labelled a pitbull x in the pound until the breeder came forward and claimed the dog as one of her own that she had rehomed and it was indeed a pure ridgeback.

One of the reasons we have these problems is because pound staff, whether right or wrong, are not properly trained to identify breeds so they make a 'best guess' out of fear that if they don't label a dog a restricted breed x and after release the dog attacks they will be held accountable.

Let's just wipe out BSL and start making owners, regardless of breed of dog, accountable!

ANKC registered breeders and their ANKC registered puppies are exempt from BSL in NSW. If you have ANKC papers and a matching microchip in NSW you have nothing to worry about, it is accepted proof that your puppy/dog is not of a restricted breed or cross.

However if you adopt a bull breed cross from a rescue or from a pound, any ranger from any council in NSW ( be it your own council or another if you are visiting the area ) can suspect your dog to be of a resticted breed or cross. This is why I suggest that rescue go through the process, with any dog that could in the future come under scrutiny and save the new owner a whole lot of hassell and potential heartache.

ANKC breeders , provide the owner with pedigree papers that are proof of breed, surely rescue for $55 can provide new owners with proof what they adopted is not.

[Baz+Rome]

ANKC registered breeders and their ANKC registered puppies are exempt from BSL in NSW. If you have ANKC papers and a matching microchip in NSW you have nothing to worry about, it is accepted proof that your puppy/dog is not of a restricted breed or cross.

However if you adopt a bull breed cross from a rescue or from a pound, any ranger from any council in NSW ( be it your own council or another if you are visiting the area ) can suspect your dog to be of a resticted breed or cross. This is why I suggest that rescue go through the process, with any dog that could in the future come under scrutiny and save the new owner a whole lot of hassell and potential heartache.

ANKC breeders , provide the owner with pedigree papers that are proof of breed, surely rescue for $55 can provide new owners with proof what they adopted is not.

When its the safety of the dogs future, $55 isn't that much to ask really. Rescues should all be educated about BSL now and exactly what it may mean to a dog, esp Bull Breed, that they are rehoming.

I still don't understand why they haven't stamped out xbreeding dogs and creating all these problems in the first place. Pound staff do their best and I sure as hell couldn't be there day in and day out doing what they do.

[superdog]

In the case of a dog that is impounded, council becomes the legal owner after the time is up or in the case of a surrender, as soon as the surrender takes place ... So basically if a dog or puppy ends up in the pound, council gets to decide the animals fate if it goes unclaimed.

The Council NEVER becomes the owner of a stray dog.

The dog remains the property of the present owner until it is sold or destroyed.

If the dog is sold, then the act empowers the transfer from the present owner to the new owner.

If the dog is to be killed, then the act empowers the destruction of the dog and the anullment of the present owner

The Council only obeys the Act.

The Council must follow the provisions of POCTAA which state that:

the unnecessary AND/OR the unreasonable AND/OR the unjustifed ... killing... of an animal ... is an (aggrevated) cruelty to animals offence (Sections 4-6)

With regard to dangerous / restricted breeds, ammendments had to be put into the POCTAA to allow the Council to kill these dogs.

------------------------------

If people want to know what they can do, then email me your contact number so we can chat: [email protected]

Edited October 6, 2009 by superdog

[WreckitWhippet]

In the case of a dog that is impounded, council becomes the legal owner after the time is up or in the case of a surrender, as soon as the surrender takes place ... So basically if a dog or puppy ends up in the pound, council gets to decide the animals fate if it goes unclaimed.

The Council NEVER becomes the owner of a stray dog.

The dog remains the property of the present owner until it is sold or destroyed.

If the dog is sold, then the act empowers the transfer from the present owner to the new owner.

If the dog is to be killed, then the act empowers the destruction of the dog and the anullment of the present owner

The Council only obeys the Act.

The Council must follow the provisions of POCTAA which state that:

the unnecessary AND/OR the unreasonable AND/OR the unjustifed ... killing... of an animal ... is an (aggrevated) cruelty to animals offence (Sections 4-6)

With regard to dangerous / restricted breeds, ammendments had to be put into the POCTAA to allow the Council to kill these dogs.

------------------------------

If people want to know what they can do, then email me your contact number so we can chat: [email protected]

My apologies, I should not have used the word "owner" when referring to the council.

Under the CAA, if your dog or puppy is impounded you have 7 days in which to claim an unchipped animal and 14 days in which to claim a chipped animal. When that time is up, you effectively lose any rights as an owner in determining the fate of that animal, it may be destroyed or sold by council.

(5) Before destroying a seized or surrendered animal as authorised by subsection (1), it is the duty of the council concerned to consider whether there is an alternative action to that of destroying the animal and (if practicable) to adopt any such alternative.

(6) This section does not authorise a council to sell a dangerous or restricted dog.

Once a dog has been declared "restricted " council cannot sell a such an animal.

However in this case, council suspected that puppy to be a restricted cross, which is why I suggested approaching Council and asking them to issue an NOI on that puppy. The suggestion of an NOI is a practical alternative to it's destruction.

Ultimately it is up to Council , as to what they consider to be "practical ".

I just hope to Dog, which ever rescue has this puppy, follows the conditions that go along with an NOI and see the process through to the end. They've been given an opportunity to save a puppy ( that would otherwise have been detroyed ) and to demonstrate that this is a workable alternative to the destruction of dogs that are considered to be of a resticted breed or cross.

If it's successfull this time, Council may well consider allowing others to be released following the same process.

[ozsomerset]

just to answer the original question

pound list them as restricted or cross restricted breed to cover themselves if anything happens.

if they release a "potential" restricted breed and the dog attacks, then councils believe that they will be held responsible by the general public for releasing the dog.

BTW, not all rangers think this way.

[Roguedog]

update - puppy is out of pound and in foster care, going through the NOI process to get him rehomed, will have breed assessment hopefully next week, will let you know how he goes (his name is bruce by the way and he is a fantastic tempered puppy)

[ruthless]

And you're bringing him to Sydney to visit me, aren't you?

[Roguedog]

lol, he is in the Central Coast now but you can come up and meet him anytime you like! trust me though, once youve met this guy, you will want him!! here is a cute one of him for you:

[ruthless]

Thanks He's very cute. Fingers crossed the BA and TT go well.

[Roguedog]

yippeee!!! no need for a TT, he passed the BA with flying colours (reflected what I believe his true breeding is - bull terrier x) now to find him a new home... big thanks go to the person who got him out of the pound and organised the whole NOI thing, you know who you are and you kick arse chicky!!! here is my favourite pic of little Brucey boy...