Desexing And Growth

[Steve]

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially

immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems. The number of health problems associated

with neutering may exceed the associated health benefits in most cases.

On the positive side, neutering male dogs

eliminates the small risk (probably <1%) of dying from testicular cancer

reduces the risk of non-cancerous prostate disorders

reduces the risk of perianal fistulas

may possibly reduce the risk of diabetes (data inconclusive)

On the negative side, neutering male dogs

if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a

common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.

increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6

triples the risk of hypothyroidism

increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment

triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems

quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer

doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers

increases the risk of orthopedic disorders

increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations

[Guest rhapsodical78]

Dobes looks so much better with their ears cropped, IMO.

Steve, that's awesome. I finally have recourse for all those people who demand to know why I haven't desexed my dog. Just to clarify, all those risks are associated only with early desexing, not desexing itself?

[jacqui835]

Dobes looks so much better with their ears cropped, IMO.

Agreed. I'm moving to Europe in a couple of years and I will finally hopefully be able to own my cropped dobe

As for the desexing, if you can last until 2 years with an undesexed male dog and managed to cope, I'm not sure that you'd need to worry about it. To be honest with you, I've only ever had female dogs desexed, I've also seen the studies posted and I just don't believe it's necessary or better for the dog health-wise. If you can control your dog and stop him from reproducing, I don't see the need and I prefer my dog to be as nature intended.

For anyone who then says, "yeah but you want to crop their ears," that's because dogs originally all had upright ears, we just thought it made them look cute to selectively breed for floppy ears, so I don't see that as the natural state.

[saxonspride]

Steve, that's awesome. I finally have recourse for all those people who demand to know why I haven't desexed my dog. Just to clarify, all those risks are associated only with early desexing, not desexing itself?

i agree steve!!! thank you!!! you have just saved saxons nuts for a few more months at least!!!

[luffy4688]

it seems its very noticeable in dobes, male dobes desexed before 6 mths are alot more leggy and lanky compared to being desexed at 18 months.

heres an example using some forum members dogs from another forum.

This is Quentin, he was desexed before 6 months

and this is Red, he was desexed at 17 months

there is a noticeable difference in the builds of both dogs, even Peaches running with Quentin in the first photo shows a difference in build.

I know this is off topic, but they are gorgeous!! Can I have them? Pretty please?? haha :laugh:

[Steve]

Ok I have heard that desexing a male dog at a young age makes them grow bigger than if they were desexed later. I have also heard that if a dog was to be desexed around 6 months old they may grow taller and more leggy than if they were left until say around 12 to 18 months old, as it affect the hormones which are used/produced during this time.

Anyone have any experience to back this up or contradict this, particularly with Rottweiler type (large) dogs

Vanessa

Dont get me wrong Im not advocating not desexing I just happen to think dog owners should be educated and make their own choices based on what they think is best for their dog with knowledge.

[Diablo]

Dobes looks so much better with their ears cropped, IMO.

Agreed. I'm moving to Europe in a couple of years and I will finally hopefully be able to own my cropped dobe

As for the desexing, if you can last until 2 years with an undesexed male dog and managed to cope, I'm not sure that you'd need to worry about it. To be honest with you, I've only ever had female dogs desexed, I've also seen the studies posted and I just don't believe it's necessary or better for the dog health-wise. If you can control your dog and stop him from reproducing, I don't see the need and I prefer my dog to be as nature intended.

For anyone who then says, "yeah but you want to crop their ears," that's because dogs originally all had upright ears, we just thought it made them look cute to selectively breed for floppy ears, so I don't see that as the natural state.

In the last 20 odd years, we have only had males and are yet to desex one to this day. I can honestly say that we have never experienced any of the supposed behavioral issues associated with entire males or experienced a situation where obedience training didn't proof them to a bitch in season either. They are easily trained to wee on command at walks and don't wee on every second tree or post or mark anywhere else. I totally agree with Jacqui's opinion, once they are trained over their first two years, there is no necessity. I would be more inclined to have a vasectomy done to prevent accidental pregnancies than a total neuter.

[Kirty]

Kyliegirl, that black dobe looks EXACTLY like my grandparents Dobe, and he was desexed when he was about 10 years old (for medical reasons). He was tall and leggy, and didn't have a boof head either. He was a pedigree and his parents were show winners. I think comparing dogs is very difficult because who knows what role genetics have played.

[chichihuahua]

I have a question, I heard that if you desex your dog at a really young age then they stay puppish for life, always bouncy and playful and slightly mischievous. I don't know if this is true or not but my dog was desexed at 10 weeks. He is now 2.5 years old and while still young, he is still really playful and we jokingly refer to him as an ADHD dog. My friend's dog who is also half mini foxie like mine was desexed at 1 year old and he is much more relaxed, more calm and gentle.

I don't know if dog personality has anything to do with this but IMO that theory kind of makes sense - if you desex your dog at a young age I would think that certain mental? or hormonal changes would never take place therefore resulting the dog to mentally be perpetually youthful. Anyone else can shed some light? I kind of regret desexing my boy so young, don't get me wrong I love his personality and all but sometimes I do wish that he was a bit more mature!

[Kirty]

I don't think the early desexing would have made a difference. He is a cross breed, so you can't compare him to other breeds, even similar crosses because each one can be very different (genetically, mentally and/or physically). My dog was desexed at 18 months and is now 7yo - he STILL acts like a huge, stupid puppy.

[tdierikx]

I'm not sure of the bone cancer finding Steve... of the male Rotties I've known that developed it, all were intact... including my own boy Connor... I've not known any desexed female Rotties that have developed bone cancer either...

T.

[sas]

In Great Danes they seem to grow taller and be leggier if desexed earlier. Although I don't see what the problem is really, just the same as an entire Great Dane that was bred poorly...

From what I understand, desexing earlier can keep the growth plates open.

[kyliegirl]

In Great Danes they seem to grow taller and be leggier if desexed earlier. Although I don't see what the problem is really, just the same as an entire Great Dane that was bred poorly...

From what I understand, desexing earlier can keep the growth plates open.

thats what I have read about the growth plates, I dont plan to desex until 12 or so mths for this reason

Edited September 29, 2009 by kyliegirl

[Gayle.]

My Aussie Shepherd boy was desexed at 4 1/2 months. He is now 2 1/2 years old, and definitely isn't leggy. He's at the top end of height for the breed, but he's in proportion, and has a solid, masculine head, broad chest and shoulders as a male should. Early desexing doesn't seem to have made any difference to his masculinity, he does all the same things the entire boys do (except mate) and he looks very much like a male dog of his breed should look.

His frame has filled out as it should and he gaits like a well put-together dog. Which he probably wouldn't do if he was leggy.

[Odin-Genie]

Dobes looks so much better with their ears cropped, IMO.

Agreed. I'm moving to Europe in a couple of years and I will finally hopefully be able to own my cropped dobe

As for the desexing, if you can last until 2 years with an undesexed male dog and managed to cope, I'm not sure that you'd need to worry about it. To be honest with you, I've only ever had female dogs desexed, I've also seen the studies posted and I just don't believe it's necessary or better for the dog health-wise. If you can control your dog and stop him from reproducing, I don't see the need and I prefer my dog to be as nature intended.

For anyone who then says, "yeah but you want to crop their ears," that's because dogs originally all had upright ears, we just thought it made them look cute to selectively breed for floppy ears, so I don't see that as the natural state.

They do look better with the ear cropped. However, does that have any health benefit?

Also, when you say that dogs originally all had upright ears, which breed does that refer to? I believe Shih Tzu, Afghan Hounds, Tibetan Terriers are all ancient breeds that had floppy ears.

[whippets]

I have 3 whippet litter sisters here. They are all different heights. One is quite leggy at the moment. They are all entire. If that leggy one was desexed early I bet people would blame her legginess on being desexed early.

How can you know that your dog is "taller" because it was desexed early when the other variable could be that is the genetic make up of that dog to be slightly longer in leg anyway.

I'm one of those people that never takes things on face value and search for other possible causes before jumping on the bandwagon.

Same goes for the "inbreeding" debate and lowered immunity. These scientists that are so desperate to get their names journaled don't offer other variables to lowered immunity such as: over vaccination, over worming, processed food and other environmental factors.

[jesomil]

I think early desexing is very obvious in some dogs.

Its mainly large dogs, but i can pick from a distance alot of the time, the ones which have been done early. Not a good look. They are generally taller with less bulk.

Much better to let large breeds mature a little.

ETA the difference is only noticable in males. No difference in females.

Edited October 1, 2009 by jesomil

[neatz]

I'm not sure of the bone cancer finding Steve... of the male Rotties I've known that developed it, all were intact... including my own boy Connor... I've not known any desexed female Rotties that have developed bone cancer either...

T.

There were studies to show there was a protective effect in males if left entire (against a variety of illnesses but bone cancer topped the list for the Rott's). I have read the referenced article in a veterinary book we have at work (it has an online version). A lot of large breeds were mentioned including my own Dobermann (although they seem to get mentioned quite a bit in veterinary books, seems they're prone to everything :p ).

Also in answer to the original question it is due to the delayed closure of the growth plates and early desexing may cause your dog to grow slightly taller than it normally would have.

[The Spotted Devil]

Sorry if it's been covered, but the absence of sex hormones due to spey/castration before maturity delays growth plate closure of the long bones, resullting in a very slightly taller dog (emphasis on very slightly). The reduction in muscle bulk due to the abscence of hormones may accentuate this. There is no clear evidence that this affects function...study results are very conflicting. Hope that helps :p

Edited October 1, 2009 by The Spotted Devil

[Bullbreedlover]

Dobes looks so much better with their ears cropped, IMO.

Agreed. I'm moving to Europe in a couple of years and I will finally hopefully be able to own my cropped dobe :p

One of the most barbaric surgery proceedures that can be done on a dog and you think it is a good thing?????????????????????????????????????????