Every Breeders'/dog Owners' Nightmare.......tenfold

[memrabull]

First let me say how terribly sorry I am to hear of this tragedy. It truly is every breeder’s nightmare.

I have been breeding since 1983 and know many breeders who were 20 years in front of me. In all that time, I have only ever heard of one breeder, that I know, losing one litter to parvo and that was about 20 years ago. Thankfully, it is a very rare occurrence and that is probably why there has not been any advice from anyone who has been in the same situation. Every breeder I know personally has always vaccinated at 6 weeks and 12 weeks with an occasional extra vaccine at 16 weeks depending on how much parvo is around at the time.

Having a very active breed, the puppies are always outside from about 4-5 weeks onwards and the level of quarantine varies between breeders. When raising a litter, some never take any of their dogs off the property, always take their shoes off at the door and don’t allow anyone else to wear shoes in. They don’t allow other dogs to visit or have friends visit if they have been to shows or training. At the other end of the scale are those who continue to show every week, have lots of visitors and take puppies out to socialise from 8 weeks.

Personally I have always been about in the middle but take particular care (especially with the shoes off at the door rule) when the puppies are aged between 5 and 7 weeks. I believe that is when they are most likely to be vulnerable if the immunity from their mum is wearing off and the immune system is compromised for several days after that first vaccination. I take puppies to the vets to be vaccinated but carry them in one at a time or get the vet to come out and do them in the car.

With your litters, my “guess” would be that someone walked the virus in at the time that the puppies were vaccinated. If their immune systems were coping with the first vaccine or the second one in two weeks, at the exact same time as they were exposed to the virus then they would have had no chance of fighting it. The vet may have been treating parvo cases that had not had not been diagnosed as parvo. Not all dogs get drastically ill from it and if they recover quickly, the diagnosis may never be confirmed. Maybe someone else walked it in or one of your other dogs brought it in if they had been off the property. They can carry it on their feet and coat without being affected by it themselves.

The newest vaccination protocols from the AVA do not give a recommended age for first vaccination but do state that the final puppy vaccination should not be before 16 weeks. Quoted from the AVA site:

“Because of maternally derived antibody and the variability in its level and duration between

individuals, vaccines should ideally be administered two to three times to puppies and kittens,

with timing of the final dose being variable but not earlier than the age of 16 weeks (the

suggested age varies with the manufacturer and the vaccine). If cost is an issue and only one

vaccine is possible, it should be at the age of 16 weeks or older.”

How to make sure you avoid it in future? Other than following the strictest quarantine measures you can think of, you can only cross your fingers and hope it never comes your way again.

Hi......Thank you so much for your answer......it has a double effect for me.....

Firstly, it seems as if I have been doing things pretty much the 'right' way with my babies, so helps to put my mind at ease that I raised them the best way I could........but secondly.......it kind of makes me feel pretty isolated & questioning that age old question "Why Me!!"......not that I would want anyone else to go through it, but why did it have to hit my gorgeous babies??

Thanks again

[memrabull]

Sorry.....another thing.......

Even though I am doing everything to 'kill' the Parvo at our place........what stops it being 'dragged' in here again at a later date??

Are we to always use a footbath just to enter our property??

If Parvo is so prevalant, how are we to avoid it other than what we have already been doing as responsible dog owners - vaccinations, etc, etc?

It is soooo frustrating to see so many dogs roaming the streets, never getting sick or injured, and we love & care for our dogs, & this happens.

Sorry.......I am obviously getting in a frustrated & negative mood (which in itself is frustrating......I am usually a very Positive person!!)

When you find this out can you please tell me the secret???

We always tell people up here to never take their pup outside their property until after their 3rd vaccine. Even people that have followed this advice to a T have ended up with a pup with parvo.

Its a horrible virus, you have no idea where it is and when it will strike. You can take every single possible precaution and still end up with infections.

Doesn't give us Dog Lovers much peace of mind does it......it's like a monster lurking in the dark, just waiting to pounce on poor innocent dogs.

Do you find that the larger breeds are hit any harder than other types of breeds.

The more research I have done (including ringing & emailing vets in Australia & overseas), the more I am being told that the Giant breeds are more susceptible to Parvo.....not necessarily at more of a risk catching it (although some think this also), but much more susceptible of dying from it.

What has been your experience?

[Rysup]

So sorry for your loss.

For years we gave the first vaccs at 6 weeks, but I have changed my methods the last few years and do not give the first until 8 weeks.

I think by giving a 6 week vacc when they are potentially still covered by their mums antibodies (which effectively cancel each other out), and lowering their immune system, we are then inviting them to catch whatever disease is going around. I think it is better to wait a bit longer, until mums coverage has worn off, before we vaccinate. So the vaccine can 'take' at a time when we are reducing their immune system.

[Cavalier]

Sorry.....another thing.......

Even though I am doing everything to 'kill' the Parvo at our place........what stops it being 'dragged' in here again at a later date??

Are we to always use a footbath just to enter our property??

If Parvo is so prevalant, how are we to avoid it other than what we have already been doing as responsible dog owners - vaccinations, etc, etc?

It is soooo frustrating to see so many dogs roaming the streets, never getting sick or injured, and we love & care for our dogs, & this happens.

Sorry.......I am obviously getting in a frustrated & negative mood (which in itself is frustrating......I am usually a very Positive person!!)

When you find this out can you please tell me the secret???

We always tell people up here to never take their pup outside their property until after their 3rd vaccine. Even people that have followed this advice to a T have ended up with a pup with parvo.

Its a horrible virus, you have no idea where it is and when it will strike. You can take every single possible precaution and still end up with infections.

Doesn't give us Dog Lovers much peace of mind does it......it's like a monster lurking in the dark, just waiting to pounce on poor innocent dogs.

Do you find that the larger breeds are hit any harder than other types of breeds.

The more research I have done (including ringing & emailing vets in Australia & overseas), the more I am being told that the Giant breeds are more susceptible to Parvo.....not necessarily at more of a risk catching it (although some think this also), but much more susceptible of dying from it.

What has been your experience?

My personal experience has been its all random. Off the top of my head the breeds which have died from parvo this year in our clinic are a Shar Pei (x2), Mastiff X, Chihuahua X, and a couple of mixed breed camp dogs.

We have treated a very wide range of breeds for parvo - it doesnt seem like any particular breed is more susceptible. What is consistant though in all our cases is either

1. owners have taken their dogs out walking before their final vaccine - this is the biggest one

2. the dogs were not vaccinated as pups at all (my oldest parvo case was 8 years old)

3. the owners have recently moved into a new house (very common up here - being a mining town) and then got a new pup - in these cases there was probably a pup with parvo there before them.

[memrabull]

Sorry.....another thing.......

Even though I am doing everything to 'kill' the Parvo at our place........what stops it being 'dragged' in here again at a later date??

Are we to always use a footbath just to enter our property??

If Parvo is so prevalant, how are we to avoid it other than what we have already been doing as responsible dog owners - vaccinations, etc, etc?

It is soooo frustrating to see so many dogs roaming the streets, never getting sick or injured, and we love & care for our dogs, & this happens.

Sorry.......I am obviously getting in a frustrated & negative mood (which in itself is frustrating......I am usually a very Positive person!!)

When you find this out can you please tell me the secret???

We always tell people up here to never take their pup outside their property until after their 3rd vaccine. Even people that have followed this advice to a T have ended up with a pup with parvo.

Its a horrible virus, you have no idea where it is and when it will strike. You can take every single possible precaution and still end up with infections.

Doesn't give us Dog Lovers much peace of mind does it......it's like a monster lurking in the dark, just waiting to pounce on poor innocent dogs.

Do you find that the larger breeds are hit any harder than other types of breeds.

The more research I have done (including ringing & emailing vets in Australia & overseas), the more I am being told that the Giant breeds are more susceptible to Parvo.....not necessarily at more of a risk catching it (although some think this also), but much more susceptible of dying from it.

What has been your experience?

My personal experience has been its all random. Off the top of my head the breeds which have died from parvo this year in our clinic are a Shar Pei (x2), Mastiff X, Chihuahua X, and a couple of mixed breed camp dogs.

We have treated a very wide range of breeds for parvo - it doesnt seem like any particular breed is more susceptible. What is consistant though in all our cases is either

1. owners have taken their dogs out walking before their final vaccine - this is the biggest one

2. the dogs were not vaccinated as pups at all (my oldest parvo case was 8 years old)

3. the owners have recently moved into a new house (very common up here - being a mining town) and then got a new pup - in these cases there was probably a pup with parvo there before them.

Thanks.......

Now another question for you, & I know you probably don't definitely know, but in your experience, is Logan immune to Parvo now, or should I be worried he may contract it again if I take him outside into our Virkoned yard??

I have no doubt that he definitely had Parvo, but it was definitely a lot milder for him (reminds me, where he had his vaccination there is still a lump......could this mean that the vaccination didn't go through his system, therefore his immunity wasn't compromised as much as the other babies??).

This one is really worrying to me......it is unhealthy for him to stay inside 24/7, but is it risky for him to go outside into our yard for some playtime & sunshine??

I really appreciate your imput, & you have obviously dealt with Parvo a lot......thanks for answering my questions.

[memrabull]

So sorry for your loss.

For years we gave the first vaccs at 6 weeks, but I have changed my methods the last few years and do not give the first until 8 weeks.

I think by giving a 6 week vacc when they are potentially still covered by their mums antibodies (which effectively cancel each other out), and lowering their immune system, we are then inviting them to catch whatever disease is going around. I think it is better to wait a bit longer, until mums coverage has worn off, before we vaccinate. So the vaccine can 'take' at a time when we are reducing their immune system.

Thanks for that......I think I have been definitely convinced that 8 weeks is better for their first vaccination......& no more than a C3. I always thought I was doing the right thing by giving them the C4 or C5, but the more I read the more I am convinced that, especially for the first shot, less is better.

[Cavalier]

Best way to know for sure is to get his parvo titres checked. In saying that, I have never known a dog who has recovered from parvo to contract it again.

For dogs to recover from parvo they have to mount a pretty strong immune response, so the likelyhood is your boy will have very high protective titres

[dancinbcs]

So sorry for your loss.

For years we gave the first vaccs at 6 weeks, but I have changed my methods the last few years and do not give the first until 8 weeks.

I think by giving a 6 week vacc when they are potentially still covered by their mums antibodies (which effectively cancel each other out), and lowering their immune system, we are then inviting them to catch whatever disease is going around. I think it is better to wait a bit longer, until mums coverage has worn off, before we vaccinate. So the vaccine can 'take' at a time when we are reducing their immune system.

Thanks for that......I think I have been definitely convinced that 8 weeks is better for their first vaccination......& no more than a C3. I always thought I was doing the right thing by giving them the C4 or C5, but the more I read the more I am convinced that, especially for the first shot, less is better.

Forgot to mention in my post that even though we have always vaccinated successfully at 6 weeks it was only ever with C3. In fact that has been all that I have used on any of my dogs for years until this year when I went travelling with the two dogs I have at the moment, and used the nasal spray KC vaccine as well in case I needed to have them minded at a kennel.

As to why it happened to you? Just sheer bad luck. Sometimes even when we do everything right bad things happen. Hopefully you have now used up all your bad lack and only good things will come to you and your dogs now.