Loose Lead Walking

[kitty]

i feel a bit bad posting this. I know it's my fault, and i'm not helping the situation, but i'm trying! I've done all the research, we've completed beginner and advanced puppy training, and we simply cannot overcome this hurdle. I know what we need to do, but i feel like i've just hit a brick wall....

Molly, my 6 month old cocker, cannot for the life of her walk on the lead politely.

I have tried not letting her advance forward, but she cannot, or will not give me attention so we can move forward. Molly has literally at times, stood at the full length of the lead, looking elsewhere for 20 minutes. We did a lot of attention work with Molly and puppy school, and we got better for a little while, but loose lead walking still wasn't happening.

I have tried very very gradually to introduce the new environments. I have absolutely perfect loose lead walking in the house, and in the back yard. I have also had perfect LLW in the garage with the doors completely up, and in the driveway. However the second we step onto the footpath, she just loses it. I also will not go on a walk until she sits for about 5 minutes to calm down, and we always start the walk on my terms.

Clicker training we have had success with, but once again, it's that fine line between environments that is the problem.

The only way i can describe it, is a brain snap. (although i KNOW that it's my lack of training etc that is causing it, not Molly!)

It's like we need some kind of middle ground between the driveway and the footpath that i can train on... but there isn't one!

We can't NOT walk her, she needs her daily walks, but i need help on how to handle the situation.

Please DOLers... give me advice! I've persevered with a different ways of getting LLW, but with absolutely no success. Molly is a fantastic dog outside of all of this. She gives a lot of focus, and is very attentive (although her recall still isn't 100%). I want to walk with her in harmony.

[huski]

It can be really frustrating training LLW when you feel like you've tried it all and you don't know what else to do.

I personally found that the change of direction technique worked best for my dogs, coupled with a one on one session with a reputable trainer. It can really help to have someone show you where you are going wrong. Micha pulled on the leash for four years before I went and saw a trainer, we literally had him walking on a loose within a single session.

Edited September 24, 2009 by huski

[kitty]

oh WOW huski - i'm glad i'm not the only one. I feel kind of embarrassed having to ask for help, but if i don't nip it in the bud now, it's just going to get harder the longer i keep doing it.

Huski, noticed you are in brisbane, if you don't mind, could you PM me the name of your trainer who worked such wonders?

The change of direction thing doesn't really work for Molly, she just pulls in the other direction, and eventually i walk in circles. This afternoon, Molly actually started doing a couple of turns mid walk, like chasing her tail type turns. I have a feeling she is just way way way over-stimulated, but i can't find a middle ground....

[corvus]

So, I wasn't quite clear on what happens when you go onto the footpath... Do you wait until she has calmed down before moving off? Is she better if you do that?

[macka]

Yes, go and see a good trainer - you will wish you had done it ages ago! Change of direction combined with a martingale collar is what has worked for us.

[kitty]

Sorry corvus. i wait until she has calmed down, but not just calm, but giving me full attention. but then as soon as i take one step it's all systems go for Molly. Any attempt at stopping for attention after that is gone. She sits perfectly for me to put the lead on, and will sit outside the front door.

ETA. we have an infinite collar on the recommendation from our puppy school trainer , and they have a specialised LLW course coming up, but i feel i either need to do it myself, or get a one on one trainer that doesn't have to worry about 5 other dogs in the class. The infinite made no difference whatsoever.

Nothing i can do seems to stop her at all from just pulling and pulling. and i know it's not her fault, it's mine...

Edited September 24, 2009 by kitty

[huski]

Don't feel embarrassed Kitty. It's very common problem and one many dog owners just put up with and many end up with dogs who never get walked - you should be proud that you want to nip it in the bud now! Have PM'd you.

Sometimes it really is just a case of being shown how to do it in a way that works, and having someone experienced watch you handling her so they can show you where you are going wrong.

Edited September 24, 2009 by huski

[poodlefan]

Sorry corvus. i wait until she has calmed down, but not just calm, but giving me full attention. but then as soon as i take one step it's all systems go for Molly. Any attempt at stopping for attention after that is gone. She sits perfectly for me to put the lead on, and will sit outside the front door.

ETA. we have an infinite collar on the recommendation from our puppy school trainer , and they have a specialised LLW course coming up, but i feel i either need to do it myself, or get a one on one trainer that doesn't have to worry about 5 other dogs in the class. The infinite made no difference whatsoever.

Nothing i can do seems to stop her at all from just pulling and pulling. and i know it's not her fault, it's mine...

What you have is a focus (or lack of) issue in addition to the loose lead one. A good one on one session with the trainer will really help.

There is more that you can do rather than just waiting for the lead to slacken but ANY method is going to take a little time to be effective.

[kitty]

thanks PF.... i have been consistent with my training, and i completely agree that i could use a one on one session with a good trainer, obviously to help me more than help Molly!

i just don't know what to do in the meantime! i feel pretty helpless, like i'm just missing something really obvious!

[Red Fox]

Kitty, have you read the book 'So your dog's not Lassie'? It's got some really good tips in there for focus and loose lead walking. Of all the books I have read I found this one really helpful.

One of the things I did (and still do) with Kei was to take him out to the local oval on a long line (33ft), tie the leash to my waist and let him sniff around doing as he pleases. Then every time he came to me (without being called) praise and treat. PRAISE like your dog has just done the best thing in the world too, really make a big deal out of it.

After a few sessions of that you can try running in the other direction all of a sudden and then if your dog follows you again praise and treat. Eventually they just want to follow you every time you walk off and from there you can teach the heel command ie, one step with me and then treat, two steps with me and treat working your way up.

No substitute for a few sessions with a good trainer but maybe worth a shot

[Cosmolo]

Kitty, don't feel as though you're missing something you should know! Loose lead walking is not easy and certainly doesn't come automatically to most people and most dogs! I think a session or two with Jane Harper will really help

[Nekhbet]

get yourself a martingale collar or even a light check chain. Also have a nice long lead. Now from the sounds of it you are pandering more to her and not giving her an incentive to listen to you. She doesnt have to! Also the dog is to be hungry, no food that day at all and have some super tasty food in your pocket.

just start walking, if she doesnt follow give little sharp tugs on the leash and 'come come come come on pup pup pup' in a high pitched loud voice and she will follow. DO NOT STOP. biggest mistake is stopping, just keep walking, talking, tug tug tug until she catches up then when she does GOOD DOG *TREAT* and keep walking. If she looks at you keep praising the moment she doesnt, stop all praise. If she bolts ahead, do a 180 and same again, tug tug tug and keep moving. I dont want you to stop once. Keep it at a good pace, keep her interested and she will follow you in one small session. She obviously wants interest BUT you have to show her she has to work for it, you are providing everything too easily and there is no repercussion for her ignoring you. She's big enough now to behave and pay attention.

This works on dogs of all ages and I use this with many of my clients. You find you get a natural focus from the dog as it learns to think and treat you as the leader. It also learns it HAS to pay attention or it looses track of where you went and the chance for praise or a jackpot treat (I dont feed constantly I really do not believe in it for this, many dogs can get ill from rich food and romping about. Jackpots for great behavior and thats it)

Edited September 24, 2009 by Nekhbet

[kitty]

thanks for the replies everyone.... I will go to the field this afternoon and keep working on it.

One thing molly does not have is food drive around distractions. At puppy school we wouldnt feed her the day before and still she had no interest in any food, no matter how high the value of the treat.

[JulesP]

The usual reason that the about turn doesn't work is because people don't do it quick enough. The puppy should really know that you have done it! You shouldn't be going in a circle, it should be a straight line. If you end up circling then you aren't turning sharp enough. You turn sharply and you GO, turn sharply and GO.

I don't agree with tug, tug, tugging either. If you are going to use any sort of correction collar then give a couple of really good corrections rather than nagging.

[macka]

I would also add that you need to start in your backyard and she needs to be perfect in the backyard before you take her out on the street where it is all very distracting.

[kitty]

I would also add that you need to start in your backyard and she needs to be perfect in the backyard before you take her out on the street where it is all very distracting.

Molly has absolutely perfect (and i mean perfect - always giving me full attention, and glued to my side) loose lead walking in the backyard.

[:ange:]

My girl was a shocker at 6 months as well.. I've got her walking reasonably well on a flat collar from just the 'zig-zag' direction. It took time and me pretty sure I would fall over from dizzyness sooner or later but it worked. I don't ask a puppy to have complete focus on me when we're walking just reasonably at my side, she's allowed to sniff etc but no pulling. I would have a longer lead (180cm-ish) go to a field with treats and do this until she got with the program that she had to be vigilant of where I was going because at any moment I could turn in the opposite direction and she would get a quick snap. When she caught up I would praise and treat.. I still do it randomly now so that I know she's paying attention to where I'm going.

I think once Molly is older I would be asking for focus when walking - it is GREAT you've got her doing it in the backyard etc.

I can't take Ruby to crowded places without a halti on because her focus is shocking and becomes a ditzy blonde as soon as anything exciting is going on - so using that gives me extra control of her without her pulling me to the ground...

[corvus]

I like long lines. I like them because sometimes they can give you a bit of leeway with loose leash walking. In my mind, the longer a dog can be walking on a loose leash before they hit the end in the learning stage the easier it is to teach them what you want, although that's just my mind. I taught Kivi to walk on leash with a 5m longline to start with, and I liked it so much I'm doing the same with Erik. I think the field idea is a good one. I did that with Kivi as well, and I think it helped him get into some good habits of checking in and listening out for me.

I wonder if there is anything she knows really well that she will do without really thinking about it? We are just starting leashes and walks with Erik at the moment and when he gets all like "OMG, Kivi's way ahead of me and I needs to runtocatchupwithhim!!! I stand there and after a few seconds of carrying on he realises throwing himself forward isn't working, then I might ask for a sit because he's very good at that and when he's sitting he's not pulling. But it sounds like it might not work for your dog. Mine is a good deal less intensely fixated on going somewhere.

Hope the trainer helps you out. Having a dog that walks well on leash makes life so very pleasant.

[kitty]

well i did have some success tonight. When i got home from work it was too dark to take Molly for a walk by myself, so i attached her lead to my training belt, and went out to the front of the house, about a step before Molly's 'breaking point. I got her attention instantly, and worked on treating her whilst on a loose lead around me. she getting very good with offering sit and drops without me asking for them, and tonight i was a little suprised.

After i treated her just for being near me with a loose lead, i started taking one step'(JUST into her breaking point area). If she bounded ahead, i stopped and sharply turned in the other direction and took one step. She actually did pretty well...What i discovered is that if Molly offered me a drop while the lead was still tense, and i ignored it, she walked in closer to me, and offered a drop again. So i think that's a good start.

I did discover one behaviour i didn't like. Molly was staying at my side, but she did start jumping up whilst next to me, to get closer to the treats. I just stopped, sharply turned and ignored the behaviour.

I don't want to push it too far at all, and i think that baby steps are the way to go. I got some good attention etc and i'm pleased with the progress.

[OSoSwift]

Sounds like you are making progress, well done.

I don't to worried about a puppy jumping around at my side looking for treats, they tend to calm down as they age a little and figure out what you are after. If she is persistantly jumping up onto your leg that is a bit different though, you do need to do something about that!