Intermediate Bridges

[corvus]

Who uses them?

I don't at the moment because I'm concentrating on nailing my timing. I think there's a danger in using an intermediate bridge as a bit of a crutch and ending up meeting the criteria a bit messily if other things creep in. I kinda feel like my dogs aren't ready for another level of communication, either. I think I would mess it up and just confuse them. Maybe if we all get really good at marker training I would introduce one. It might be useful for getting the ball rolling and then shaping with the primary marker?

[TerraNik]

I don't think I understand what you mean by an intermediate bridge.. Can you give an example?

[corvus]

Intermediate Bridge: A series of continuous and instantaneous signals marking a progression of successful instants advancing toward a successfully completed behavior. A steady stream of articulated syllables issued as an animal begins to cooperate with a trainer, and continued until the animal begins to deviate from the requested behavior (at which point they are stopped till the animal returns to compliance) or until the behavior is successfully completed, (at which time the string of ibs is punctuated with a terminal bridge).

From here: http://www.synalia.com/articles/bridgesIB.html

[JulesP]

Yes I use them and don't have any issues with them.

[TerraNik]

Well I definitely don't. The only words that come out of my mouth are praise, "try again" (when he's got confused) and a marker (though I usually use a clicker).

Edited September 23, 2009 by TerraNik

[~*Shell*~]

So essentially you continue making noise while the dog is performing the behaviour you want from it? So if you're trying to teach a drop and the dog goes down into a bow but stands back up, you would make noise from the time the dog starts going down till he starts coming back up? I've never heard of it before - how does it stand as opposed to marking something with a clicker? I've found that I've never needed anything other than the clicker to teach Zero a behaviour.

[JulesP]

You would use it for something like a stay. ie stay, click, good stay, good dog, good stay, release. It might not be a constant verbal stream either. For a long stay there might be mins in between.

[~*Shell*~]

That's interesting - if you're only marking sporadically, how does it differ from a normal marker?

How did you condition your dogs to it Jules?

[Diva]

You would use it for something like a stay. ie stay, click, good stay, good dog, good stay, release. It might not be a constant verbal stream either. For a long stay there might be mins in between.

But in that model I'd treat after the click, a click is always a terminal bridge for me. So I might cue stay 'good, good, good' click, primary reinforcer. But not click then use an IB - that sequence is wrong for mine.

[TerraNik]

Actually I lie!!!!!

I have used this for Jedi's dumbbell!!!!!!!!!!!!

He would hold it and I would count ... 1...2....3....4.....5..... etc and then click. Worked reaaaaaaaaaally well!

[JulesP]

I wrote that a bit confusingly Terranik the first click would be for going into the stay position. Talking baby dogs here.

The 'good dog' stuff is the bridge, not the marker. You don't actually condition the dog to it, like you do to the actual marker.

If you are heeling and talking to your dog, ie nice heeling, what a clever dog etc, then you are bridging.

Going through weavers - 'that is right, keep going, good dog' bridging again.

All this is for training btw and gets phased out.

[corvus]

Diva made a good point. An IB is like a signal that tells the dog they are on track to getting a reward, but they have to keep going. The clicker is a terminal bridge that signals that the behaviour is complete. So IB then click would be the way it would work.

In the link the author talks about using an IB, a terminal bridge, and a target all together. The IB is used not only to tell the animal they are on the right track, but to rescue something before failure. The way the author was using it was a continual sound that would stop if the animal got distracted and would start again if the animal looked back at the trainer and would continue if the animal then started on the right track again. The terminal bridge would be used once the behaviour was finished and then the reward.

It is interesting stuff and I think it would make teaching new things very quick. Baby steps for me, though.

[JulesP]

Yes I also use it if the dog is looking confused and needs encouragement. ie running towards the dumbell when first learning.

You often use it as a bridge between 2 behaviors which is why it is called bridging. So click for the sit - bridge during the stay - click the end of the stay.

[Diva]

Yes I also use it if the dog is looking confused and needs encouragement. ie running towards the dumbell when first learning.

You often use it as a bridge between 2 behaviors which is why it is called bridging. So click for the sit - bridge during the stay - click the end of the stay.

I thought both the IB and terminal bridges were 'bridges' between the behaviour and the primary reinforcer, not necessarily two behaviours.

Jules, do you give a primary reinforcer after the first click?

[Vickie]

I certainly use them, but it seems to be about my tone rather than what I actually say.

For a moving performance I tend to make a "psss" noise which means keep going fast

For a stationery performance I use very soft soothing tones, like "that's a very good rest". I use the word good & the name of the behaviour.

For me, the more defined & reliable my release is, the more likely I am to sucessfully use a bridge, so that if they are in a stationary position, they are not to move until I give my release word & I should be able to say whatever I want while they are in that position.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Vickie

[JulesP]

Jules, do you give a primary reinforcer after the first click?

Sometimes. I seem to have been taught marking a bit differently from some other people though. I don't always mark and immediately treat. I use marking as 'something good is coming' rather than 'something good is coming right now'. Works for me.

[corvus]

I understood that a bridge is anything you have conditioned to be reinforcing that you can then use to tell a dog they've done the right thing. I reward every time I click, but not every time I say "good boy", but both are bridges and I use both to mark behaviour. The clicker is stronger though, because a bridge is only as good as the last time you reinforced it. I tend to use "good boy" a bit too much without reinforcing it, so it is a bit on the weak side.

[JulesP]

Some people call marking bridging. I view them as 2 different things. Clicking or saying 'yes' I view as marking and they need to be conditioned. Bridging I don't think needs conditioning as the actual way you do it is encouragement enough for the dogs.

[Seita]

I think I use them in training for things like stays or recalls etc as an encouragement to keep going with what they are doing. But once the behaviour is taught I can't think of any thing that I would use it for.

For example I am training my dog to do a sendaway for UD trialling, I send my dog into the box, and then I tell her to wait or use soothing words to keep her calm and in there because she knows that going into the box gets the reward but I'm trying to increase how long she sits in the box before being rewarded. Once she's got it I will phase that wait command and the soothing tones because she won't need it.

[Diva]

Sometimes. I seem to have been taught marking a bit differently from some other people though. I don't always mark and immediately treat.

That's our point of difference then, to me the clicker or my 'terminal' marker word are always reinforced. Not always with a primary reinforcer as often for my dogs praise, touch and play are meaningful enough, but it's part of my contract with them that they are always reinforced somehow as part of the training game if I click or tell them 'yes'.

I use marking as 'something good is coming' rather than 'something good is coming right now'. Works for me.

So if you click then use an intermittent bridge, but the dog doesn't complete the behaviour, does it still get the 'something good'? If not doesn't your click become 'something good might be coming' which changes the meaning a lot? This is why I don't click then use an intermittent bridge.