Protective But Not Aggressive Breeds

[Staranais]

OK thanks! Will be interesting.

[Diablo]

When I was looking for my dog, I visited a lot of doberman breeders and many of them told me they believed that dobermans in Australia didn't have the protective side anymore, and were effectively "labs in doberman clothing". So I kept looking.

"Golden Retrievers dressed in GSD uniforms" was the saying told to us when searching for a well balanced GSD, a GSD that had the ability to fulfill the working roles that the breed is supposed to be able to achieve. It took some searching to find a breeder who strives to maintain the type of GSD that reflects the breeds working history.

[carlibud]

Hi everyone,

I live in a suburban area although we walk to the river and through parks every day so my GSD has lots and lots of exercise (both on and off-leash)

I have had two very bad incidents in the past and that was a factor in choosing a GSD as my breed. have always felt safe with my GSD as I believed that most people would choose not to attach someone with a scarey looking dog. He also has a huge, deep bark that would deter most (if not all) would be burglars.

Anyway, last week there was an incident when a mentally disturbed man attacked me verbally and then attempted to punch me. I ducked to avoid hima nd let go of my GSD's leash. My 4 year old GSD promply bolted and left me to try and avoid this guy.

I love my dog as he is and do NOT want him attack-trained etc BUT I did feel that a natural protective instinct would kick in if he believed I was in actual danger.

Are there any breeds of dogs that are naturally protective but not aggressive eg like a Maremma? I have owned a Maremma before andc loved that I wasn't afraid theyw ould attack someone but that they would do what it took to protect me. Unfortunately living in such a suburban area as I do I doubt that a Maremma would be happy there.

Any other suggestions please?

Strangely only last night in another thread, I was having this very discussion about weak nerved GSD's bred for show/pet purposes and the "exact" discussion that I mounted was "when it comes to the crunch, the weak nerve GSD's will run away, they won't protect you" and everyone wanted to argue about it telling me I was wrong???.

It's not the breed Brooke, it's the breeding of your dog to produce weak nerved, soft temperament more socially acceptable animals free of civil aggression. My GSD would have taken the guy's arm off before he raised it, infact the guy wouldn't have been game enough to approach us once he was switched into defence drive. With a hard temperament and strong nerve dog, the training is preventing them from barking,chasing, attacking, not teaching them to react which is the difference. A GSD from a breeder perhaps a working line or a strong showline that do produce dogs capable of protection/security work would suit your requirements, but such breedings are difficult dogs to control and require training practices by professional people with experience in handling them correctly.

Sorry Rex but I think not being aggressive can NOT be taken as WEAK NERVED GSD's. My dogs have all had beautiful temperments, Would they protect me if someone attacked me ? I dont know cause they dont feel threatened by people.But have never had to put them in that position, thank goodness.

My old girl that I had was the softest natured dog you could ever meet. But we had a party one night and a friend was mucking around gave me a squeeze and Tash was between us and glaring him and wouldnt let him move a muscle till he moved away form me, and was there every time he came towards me, he laughed as he has GSd's but I felt safe. Another time our next door neighbour was in and out of our house Tash just sat and watched, then my husband walked across the road and as he was coming back here was the neighbour backing up saying OK OK I'm not coming in, There was no way she would of let him in without us being there, never bit anyone of course, but had that dont even think about it look

Brydee well she is only 12months old but I'm sure she would just give you a cuddle

[Diablo]

Hi everyone,

I live in a suburban area although we walk to the river and through parks every day so my GSD has lots and lots of exercise (both on and off-leash)

I have had two very bad incidents in the past and that was a factor in choosing a GSD as my breed. have always felt safe with my GSD as I believed that most people would choose not to attach someone with a scarey looking dog. He also has a huge, deep bark that would deter most (if not all) would be burglars.

Anyway, last week there was an incident when a mentally disturbed man attacked me verbally and then attempted to punch me. I ducked to avoid hima nd let go of my GSD's leash. My 4 year old GSD promply bolted and left me to try and avoid this guy.

I love my dog as he is and do NOT want him attack-trained etc BUT I did feel that a natural protective instinct would kick in if he believed I was in actual danger.

Are there any breeds of dogs that are naturally protective but not aggressive eg like a Maremma? I have owned a Maremma before andc loved that I wasn't afraid theyw ould attack someone but that they would do what it took to protect me. Unfortunately living in such a suburban area as I do I doubt that a Maremma would be happy there.

Any other suggestions please?

Strangely only last night in another thread, I was having this very discussion about weak nerved GSD's bred for show/pet purposes and the "exact" discussion that I mounted was "when it comes to the crunch, the weak nerve GSD's will run away, they won't protect you" and everyone wanted to argue about it telling me I was wrong???.

It's not the breed Brooke, it's the breeding of your dog to produce weak nerved, soft temperament more socially acceptable animals free of civil aggression. My GSD would have taken the guy's arm off before he raised it, infact the guy wouldn't have been game enough to approach us once he was switched into defence drive. With a hard temperament and strong nerve dog, the training is preventing them from barking,chasing, attacking, not teaching them to react which is the difference. A GSD from a breeder perhaps a working line or a strong showline that do produce dogs capable of protection/security work would suit your requirements, but such breedings are difficult dogs to control and require training practices by professional people with experience in handling them correctly.

Sorry Rex but I think not being aggressive can NOT be taken as WEAK NERVED GSD's. My dogs have all had beautiful temperments, Would they protect me if someone attacked me ? I dont know cause they dont feel threatened by people.But have never had to put them in that position, thank goodness.

My old girl that I had was the softest natured dog you could ever meet. But we had a party one night and a friend was mucking around gave me a squeeze and Tash was between us and glaring him and wouldnt let him move a muscle till he moved away form me, and was there every time he came towards me, he laughed as he has GSd's but I felt safe. Another time our next door neighbour was in and out of our house Tash just sat and watched, then my husband walked across the road and as he was coming back here was the neighbour backing up saying OK OK I'm not coming in, There was no way she would of let him in without us being there, never bit anyone of course, but had that dont even think about it look

Brydee well she is only 12months old but I'm sure she would just give you a cuddle

I would have to agree that in many show breedings, much of the drives required for a GSD to be trained effectively in protection work is missing unfortunately. The breedings are definitely becoming softer especially with lines where the breeders are not purposely maintaining the breeds working capabilities favouring conformation over workability in their search for producing show winning examples. Generally speaking, the lines having the desired drives to be easily protection trained are usually a bit more lively, dominant and can be more suspicious and hostile towards people outside of their pack and can be difficult to handle for the average pet owner lacking the experience in training more serious dogs.

The nerve of the dog is how it copes with pressure which is different to it's willingness to aggress where a dog that is reactive in aggression can do so from fear caused by weak nerves where some of the quietest most layed back GSD's can have extremely hard nerve, but in a dog trainable in protection requires both nerve and drive and either doesn't work effectively without the other. Some working lines are bred with over the top drives which wins in dogsport competition but doesn't always provide the correct balance for protection work either which is a rather complex balance of drive, nerve and specialised training to achieve such a dog.

[Guest rhapsodical78]

Hi everyone,

I live in a suburban area although we walk to the river and through parks every day so my GSD has lots and lots of exercise (both on and off-leash)

I have had two very bad incidents in the past and that was a factor in choosing a GSD as my breed. have always felt safe with my GSD as I believed that most people would choose not to attach someone with a scarey looking dog. He also has a huge, deep bark that would deter most (if not all) would be burglars.

Anyway, last week there was an incident when a mentally disturbed man attacked me verbally and then attempted to punch me. I ducked to avoid hima nd let go of my GSD's leash. My 4 year old GSD promply bolted and left me to try and avoid this guy.

I love my dog as he is and do NOT want him attack-trained etc BUT I did feel that a natural protective instinct would kick in if he believed I was in actual danger.

Are there any breeds of dogs that are naturally protective but not aggressive eg like a Maremma? I have owned a Maremma before andc loved that I wasn't afraid theyw ould attack someone but that they would do what it took to protect me. Unfortunately living in such a suburban area as I do I doubt that a Maremma would be happy there.

Any other suggestions please?

Strangely only last night in another thread, I was having this very discussion about weak nerved GSD's bred for show/pet purposes and the "exact" discussion that I mounted was "when it comes to the crunch, the weak nerve GSD's will run away, they won't protect you" and everyone wanted to argue about it telling me I was wrong???.

It's not the breed Brooke, it's the breeding of your dog to produce weak nerved, soft temperament more socially acceptable animals free of civil aggression. My GSD would have taken the guy's arm off before he raised it, infact the guy wouldn't have been game enough to approach us once he was switched into defence drive. With a hard temperament and strong nerve dog, the training is preventing them from barking,chasing, attacking, not teaching them to react which is the difference. A GSD from a breeder perhaps a working line or a strong showline that do produce dogs capable of protection/security work would suit your requirements, but such breedings are difficult dogs to control and require training practices by professional people with experience in handling them correctly.

Sorry Rex but I think not being aggressive can NOT be taken as WEAK NERVED GSD's. My dogs have all had beautiful temperments, Would they protect me if someone attacked me ? I dont know cause they dont feel threatened by people.But have never had to put them in that position, thank goodness.

My old girl that I had was the softest natured dog you could ever meet. But we had a party one night and a friend was mucking around gave me a squeeze and Tash was between us and glaring him and wouldnt let him move a muscle till he moved away form me, and was there every time he came towards me, he laughed as he has GSd's but I felt safe. Another time our next door neighbour was in and out of our house Tash just sat and watched, then my husband walked across the road and as he was coming back here was the neighbour backing up saying OK OK I'm not coming in, There was no way she would of let him in without us being there, never bit anyone of course, but had that dont even think about it look

Brydee well she is only 12months old but I'm sure she would just give you a cuddle

I would have to agree that in many show breedings, much of the drives required for a GSD to be trained effectively in protection work is missing unfortunately. The breedings are definitely becoming softer especially with lines where the breeders are not purposely maintaining the breeds working capabilities favouring conformation over workability in their search for producing show winning examples. Generally speaking, the lines having the desired drives to be easily protection trained are usually a bit more lively, dominant and can be more suspicious and hostile towards people outside of their pack and can be difficult to handle for the average pet owner lacking the experience in training more serious dogs.

The nerve of the dog is how it copes with pressure which is different to it's willingness to aggress where a dog that is reactive in aggression can do so from fear caused by weak nerves where some of the quietest most layed back GSD's can have extremely hard nerve, but in a dog trainable in protection requires both nerve and drive and either doesn't work effectively without the other. Some working lines are bred with over the top drives which wins in dogsport competition but doesn't always provide the correct balance for protection work either which is a rather complex balance of drive, nerve and specialised training to achieve such a dog.

Beautiful post. What comformation is doing to the temperament of working breeds is lamentable.

[Diablo]

'

rhapsodical78' date='28th Sep 2009 - 03:29 AM' post='4009343'

Beautiful post. What comformation is doing to the temperament of working breeds is lamentable.

Sad but true in too many cases. The GSD in particular is a working dog without getting into a working lines versus show lines debate, a GSD is a GSD one breed only and ultimately it must be able to work first and foremost. The "Schutzhund Test" (not to be mistaken as the sport of Schutzhund) was developed specifically to test the working ability of the GSD where dogs unable to pass the test were considered faulty and could neither be shown or bred. The Schutzhund Test was the entrance pass into the show ring which clearly confirms that workability has priority over conformation in the breed with the champion dog being the best in conformation of the dogs that have working ability.

Some countries including Australia decided that the Schutzhund Test should not be included in determining temperament and workability which has left us with champion dogs in conformation which is only part of the breed standard and fails to evaluate and rate the complete dog as intended unfortunately.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Diablo

[Xaiver III]

Hi everyone

This thread is really exciting. I can't wait for the results!

My family are considering getting a GSD in a years time (after years of deciding what dog to get )

You guys and gals mentioned (I think it was Jeff Jones?) that essentially getting a trained protective dog is better then a family pet in regards to "protecting" the owner.

Anyway there is only 3 people in my family, but I want a nice, friendly dog who will not bite or be be aggressive to small kids, our friends and essentially most strangers.

However one reason we do want a GSD is to protect our house and us in case of burgulries etc. (Dad goes on a lot of business trips, so often mum and I are alone in the house)

Jeff Jones was talking about training a dog with commands which will make the dog growl and essentially look very scary and menacing towards strangers and a command which stops this behaviour to let the dog know it is ok (saying "watch/growl" and then saying "stand down")?

Just to clarify, am I right in saying this is possible? Is it possible to train the dog to growl and then not too?

Is there any serious implications of training a dog to do this (behavioural and psychological problems)?

The only thing I want the dog to do is to growl and "look" scary BUT I don't want it to attack.

I've looked up some dog training centre sites and they all mentioned an "attack command". I don't want this.

Would I by right in saying that these commands can only be taught by a professional dog trainers only?

Also how would this affect the dogs natural instinct of detecting when it's owner or property is being threatened??

When Kaiser was a younger dog and we did alot of walking at night and early in the morning. If someone was approaching us I would say watch and loosen the lead slightly, he would go from heal to infront of me and put his ears forward and watch the person. It must have been intimidating as most people took a wide berth after this. Once someone was following me, which I was unaware of as I was listening to my ipod. Kaiser stopped at a tree and turned and looked at the person and didn't move until he crossed the road, I like to think he saved me that day.

This is exactly what I want Good boy Kaiser

Did you teach him to do this?

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

Hi I have at the moment 2 cross cattle dogs and a rottie , having lived with these breeds I have always been disappointed when people have shown fear when walking past my well behaved and placid pets , most dogs will react to aggressive behaviour be that of a human or another dog some will run and some will challenge the aggressor , neither reaction from the dog is under control or safe either for the owner or the aggressive person , would suggest that your dog is your companion and that you might want to attend self defence classes , perhaps if your GSD's boss feels a little more confident then he will to , remember we are there to protect and look after them , we are the smart humans after all

[Diablo]

Hi everyone

This thread is really exciting. I can't wait for the results!

My family are considering getting a GSD in a years time (after years of deciding what dog to get )

You guys and gals mentioned (I think it was Jeff Jones?) that essentially getting a trained protective dog is better then a family pet in regards to "protecting" the owner.

Anyway there is only 3 people in my family, but I want a nice, friendly dog who will not bite or be be aggressive to small kids, our friends and essentially most strangers.

However one reason we do want a GSD is to protect our house and us in case of burgulries etc. (Dad goes on a lot of business trips, so often mum and I are alone in the house)

Jeff Jones was talking about training a dog with commands which will make the dog growl and essentially look very scary and menacing towards strangers and a command which stops this behaviour to let the dog know it is ok (saying "watch/growl" and then saying "stand down")?

Just to clarify, am I right in saying this is possible? Is it possible to train the dog to growl and then not too?

Is there any serious implications of training a dog to do this (behavioural and psychological problems)?

The only thing I want the dog to do is to growl and "look" scary BUT I don't want it to attack.

I've looked up some dog training centre sites and they all mentioned an "attack command". I don't want this.

Would I by right in saying that these commands can only be taught by a professional dog trainers only?

Also how would this affect the dogs natural instinct of detecting when it's owner or property is being threatened??

When Kaiser was a younger dog and we did alot of walking at night and early in the morning. If someone was approaching us I would say watch and loosen the lead slightly, he would go from heal to infront of me and put his ears forward and watch the person. It must have been intimidating as most people took a wide berth after this. Once someone was following me, which I was unaware of as I was listening to my ipod. Kaiser stopped at a tree and turned and looked at the person and didn't move until he crossed the road, I like to think he saved me that day.

This is exactly what I want ;) Good boy Kaiser

Did you teach him to do this?

GSD's are a good deterrent to the average criminal due to their reputation in police and protection work as the presence of a GSD can never be determined what it's capabilities may be and everyone knows what a GSD looks like with it's distinctive features.

However, selecting the dog to best suit your requirements is a difficult task when looking for protective qualities as such dogs are instinctively suspicious and stranger aggressive requiring experienced socialising and training to be gentle and friendly from an early age and are difficult for the inexperienced to handle. The softer GSD breedings that are instinctively friendly and gentle can be unsteady in nerve and frighten easily when it comes to the crunch to take a protective stance, will turn tail and run. Having said that though, a dog can easily be trained to bark on command or bark if strangers approach the property which in most cases provides enough deterrent for the job to be done.

GSD litters marketed as hard temperament with police and security type ancestor lines, to be understood by potential buyers in belief of these types answering their protective requirements, they will, but are a lot of dog to handle and train, untrained can be a total liability

Edited October 10, 2009 by Diablo

[Diablo]

Hi I have at the moment 2 cross cattle dogs and a rottie , having lived with these breeds I have always been disappointed when people have shown fear when walking past my well behaved and placid pets , most dogs will react to aggressive behaviour be that of a human or another dog some will run and some will challenge the aggressor , neither reaction from the dog is under control or safe either for the owner or the aggressive person , would suggest that your dog is your companion and that you might want to attend self defence classes , perhaps if your GSD's boss feels a little more confident then he will to , remember we are there to protect and look after them , we are the smart humans after all

I am sorry Schmoo's boss, but I disagree with your comment advocating that we should be protecting our dogs, taking self defence classes which doesn't suit everyones requirements. Protection dogs do have a role in society and anyone is free to own one if they desire which is not a crime and in some cases owning such a dog for people who have suffered the trauma of home invasions and assaults, a protection dog helps them sleep at night providing the therapy required to help them feel safe again in their own homes. No amount of self defence classes will overcome being woken from sleep with knife held at someones throat where a protection dog can stop such offenders getting in, or at a minimum bark, wake and alert someone to an offender on the premises.

[Kavik]

Hi everyone ;)

This thread is really exciting. I can't wait for the results!

My family are considering getting a GSD in a years time (after years of deciding what dog to get )

You guys and gals mentioned (I think it was Jeff Jones?) that essentially getting a trained protective dog is better then a family pet in regards to "protecting" the owner.

Anyway there is only 3 people in my family, but I want a nice, friendly dog who will not bite or be be aggressive to small kids, our friends and essentially most strangers.

However one reason we do want a GSD is to protect our house and us in case of burgulries etc. (Dad goes on a lot of business trips, so often mum and I are alone in the house)

Jeff Jones was talking about training a dog with commands which will make the dog growl and essentially look very scary and menacing towards strangers and a command which stops this behaviour to let the dog know it is ok (saying "watch/growl" and then saying "stand down")?

Just to clarify, am I right in saying this is possible? Is it possible to train the dog to growl and then not too?

Is there any serious implications of training a dog to do this (behavioural and psychological problems)?

The only thing I want the dog to do is to growl and "look" scary BUT I don't want it to attack.

I've looked up some dog training centre sites and they all mentioned an "attack command". I don't want this.

Would I by right in saying that these commands can only be taught by a professional dog trainers only?

Also how would this affect the dogs natural instinct of detecting when it's owner or property is being threatened??

When Kaiser was a younger dog and we did alot of walking at night and early in the morning. If someone was approaching us I would say watch and loosen the lead slightly, he would go from heal to infront of me and put his ears forward and watch the person. It must have been intimidating as most people took a wide berth after this. Once someone was following me, which I was unaware of as I was listening to my ipod. Kaiser stopped at a tree and turned and looked at the person and didn't move until he crossed the road, I like to think he saved me that day.

This is exactly what I want Good boy Kaiser

Did you teach him to do this?

You have to carefully look at what you want from the dog AND the sort of dog you can handle/how much work you are prepared to put in. If you are only looking for a deterrent and do not have a lot of experience with challenging dogs, I think you probably only need a pet GSD. People are intimidated by the breed, their size, reputation and appearance. They also have a big bark, you could train to bark on command.

Anything more serious than that, any type of personal protection training for the dog, is a big committment and requires a dog with a much stronger temperament than you would require of just a pet dog and requires more skill to control and manage.

[Staranais]

Anything more serious than that, any type of personal protection training for the dog, is a big committment and requires a dog with a much stronger temperament than you would require of just a pet dog and requires more skill to control and manage.

Agree.

If you get a strong working line dog, and don't socialise, train and manage him or her correctly, your family and friends can be in more danger from the dog than from whatever the dog is supposed to be protecting you against!

It sounds to me like you just want to put on a show to deter potential burglars. Any large, confident, tough looking dog trained to bark could do that, and be a good pet at the same time.

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

Hi I have at the moment 2 cross cattle dogs and a rottie , having lived with these breeds I have always been disappointed when people have shown fear when walking past my well behaved and placid pets , most dogs will react to aggressive behaviour be that of a human or another dog some will run and some will challenge the aggressor , neither reaction from the dog is under control or safe either for the owner or the aggressive person , would suggest that your dog is your companion and that you might want to attend self defence classes , perhaps if your GSD's boss feels a little more confident then he will to , remember we are there to protect and look after them , we are the smart humans after all

I am sorry Schmoo's boss, but I disagree with your comment advocating that we should be protecting our dogs, taking self defence classes which doesn't suit everyones requirements. Protection dogs do have a role in society and anyone is free to own one if they desire which is not a crime and in some cases owning such a dog for people who have suffered the trauma of home invasions and assaults, a protection dog helps them sleep at night providing the therapy required to help them feel safe again in their own homes. No amount of self defence classes will overcome being woken from sleep with knife held at someones throat where a protection dog can stop such offenders getting in, or at a minimum bark, wake and alert someone to an offender on the premises.

HI Diablo

I agree that working protection dogs do have a place , under the control of a competent handler and working police , security and armed forces , but for family homes i do have to question , not the dogs ability to follow his training but the owners ability to handle him nervous owners tend to make for nervous dogs and make mistakes in judgment that can cost their pets their lives ,

Self defence can help people who have suffered this type of trauma to develop confidence and a dog with a confident pack leader will stand not run

[Diablo]

'Schmoo's boss' date='11th Oct 2009 - 08:20 AM' post='4038973'

HI Diablo

I agree that working protection dogs do have a place , under the control of a competent handler and working police , security and armed forces , but for family homes i do have to question , not the dogs ability to follow his training but the owners ability to handle him nervous owners tend to make for nervous dogs and make mistakes in judgment that can cost their pets their lives ,

Self defence can help people who have suffered this type of trauma to develop confidence and a dog with a confident pack leader will stand not run

People tend to believe that for example, a hard temperament GSD capable of protection work is dangerous to it's owners or family pack and they are not, quite the opposite. In fact they are generally safer in family homes more steady and predictable nerves, don't spook or fear bite and can handle adverse pressure. Sensing fear in their pack they react more voilently and can attack and bite and can also react to things that are not genuine threats when untrained which becomes the liability. Most attack trained police and security dogs live in a family environment and are gentle and affectionate pets within their own family pack.

[Nekhbet]

xavier I sent you a PM

I agree diablo, a weak nerved dog is a bigger liability then a well bred working dog. Pressure of any sort can be its biggest enemy and too many times I see flighty, fear biting dogs that are hard to control through weak nerves and mixed bag breeding when it comes to the dam/sires temperaments

Unfortunately here there is too big a distinction between working and pet lines. In Europe the line is blurred - this breed is meant to be both a family pet AND guardian hence the dogs need defense as well as a family friendly temperament, tolerance and stable nerve.

[mantis]

I guess some breeds are better, but I think it is more the dogs personality & how they think of their humans.

Kenny is a Neopolitan Mastiff X APBT, he is very gentle & loves all humans, BUT, if anyone tried to hurt me, he would knock them down & hold them down. He did this to my EX who he adored, but when he jumped the back fence drunk one night while I was in bed, Kenny stopped him. Kenny didn't bite him, just wouldn't let him up until I called him off, after hearing my Ex yelling, let go Kenny it's me Daddy over & over again.

OH & if a guy tries to put his arm around me while Kenny is there, he jumps & pushes them away, lucky I am happy being single these days.

[Diablo]

xavier I sent you a PM

I agree diablo, a weak nerved dog is a bigger liability then a well bred working dog. Pressure of any sort can be its biggest enemy and too many times I see flighty, fear biting dogs that are hard to control through weak nerves and mixed bag breeding when it comes to the dam/sires temperaments

Unfortunately here there is too big a distinction between working and pet lines. In Europe the line is blurred - this breed is meant to be both a family pet AND guardian hence the dogs need defense as well as a family friendly temperament, tolerance and stable nerve.

Having experience primarily with GSD's Nekhbet, it's most disappointing to see the amount of breedings undertaken with dogs of faulty temperament considered "pet temperaments" due to their weakness which in my opinion is competely wrong. A weak nerved GSD is something in a pet I would never consider steady enough for a family environment. A "pet temperament" is an excuse for a litter that should have never been bred and this problem in the GSD is escalating as time evolves unfortunately.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Diablo

[Xaiver III]

You have to carefully look at what you want from the dog AND the sort of dog you can handle/how much work you are prepared to put in. If you are only looking for a deterrent and do not have a lot of experience with challenging dogs, I think you probably only need a pet GSD. People are intimidated by the breed, their size, reputation and appearance. They also have a big bark, you could train to bark on command.

Anything more serious than that, any type of personal protection training for the dog, is a big committment and requires a dog with a much stronger temperament than you would require of just a pet dog and requires more skill to control and manage.

Yeah, I too defiantly believe in what you are saying. After all I want a dog because for a companion and to be a family pet.

I will put the time and money into training (that's why I'm getting the dog next year when I finish school), but I am a first time dog owner (well as in the first dog that I will raise from a puppy)

I suppose what really got me wondering and worrying is because of this thread, in particulary weak nerved dogs.

Having talked to many people about german shepherds, they have allways said that GSD have distinct protective insticts.

However weak nerved dogs never crossed my mind. Having a weak nerved dog is going to be, as others have said, a big liability.

I certainly don't want to get sued by a stupid robber for my dog biting him, and more importantly, my dog being put down because of it.

With the breeding practices changing (breeders not wanting to hear the word "Schutzhund", if I get a show breed dog from a reputable GSD breeder and take the puppy to a professional dog trainer, would I have a chance of getting a "protection dog" i.e the things I wanted in my initial post?

I suppose it can only be determined by finding a puppy with the right temperment? Wow, I have got a lot to learn about finding the right GSD puppy

A little off topic, but why don't breeders like to test for Schutzhund?

xavier I sent you a PM

I agree diablo, a weak nerved dog is a bigger liability then a well bred working dog. Pressure of any sort can be its biggest enemy and too many times I see flighty, fear biting dogs that are hard to control through weak nerves and mixed bag breeding when it comes to the dam/sires temperaments

Unfortunately here there is too big a distinction between working and pet lines. In Europe the line is blurred - this breed is meant to be both a family pet AND guardian hence the dogs need defense as well as a family friendly temperament, tolerance and stable nerve.

Having experience primarily with GSD's Nekhbet, it's most disappointing to see the amount of breedings undertaken with dogs of faulty temperament considered "pet temperaments" due to their weakness which in my opinion is competely wrong. A weak nerved GSD is something in a pet I would never consider steady enough for a family environment. A "pet temperament" is an excuse for a litter that should have never been bred and this problem in the GSD is escalating as time evolves unfortunately.

Yeah, this is what I'm worried about and am thinking really hard about getting a puppy from a breeder who Schutzhund the dogs (as kindly mentioned by Nekhbet)

Whilst initially I presumed that breeders who breed "guard dogs" were just dogs who were aggressive, I am now thinking otherwise?

BTW would be kicked out of the GSD thread if I mentioned that I wanted a puppy who's parents were Schutzhund tested?

[Diablo]

'Xaiver III' date='12th Oct 2009 - 01:44 AM' post='4040653'

I want a dog for a companion and to be a family pet.

With the breeding practices changing (breeders not wanting to hear the word "Schutzhund", if I get a show breed dog from a reputable GSD breeder and take the puppy to a professional dog trainer, would I have a chance of getting a "protection dog" i.e the things I wanted in my initial post?

I suppose it can only be determined by finding a puppy with the right temperment? Wow, I have got a lot to learn about finding the right GSD puppy

A little off topic, but why don't breeders like to test for Schutzhund?

Yeah, this is what I'm worried about and am thinking really hard about getting a puppy from a breeder who Schutzhund the dogs (as kindly mentioned by Nekhbet)

Whilst initially I presumed that breeders who breed "guard dogs" were just dogs who were aggressive, I am now thinking otherwise?

BTW would be kicked out of the GSD thread if I mentioned that I wanted a puppy who's parents were Schutzhund tested?

TEMPERAMENT - The German Shepherd Dog must be of well balanced temperament, steady of nerve, self assured, absolutely free and easy, and (unless provoked) completely good natured, as well as alert and tractable. He must have courage, combative instinct and hardness, in order to be suitable as companion, watch, protection, service and herding dog.

Xaiver,

That's the breed standard (above). You have every right to ask a breeder if their dogs comply and if not, they are obviously breeding, faulty dogs

You also have the rights to ask how they determine compliance without ever trialling their breeding stock in the relevent workability (Schutzhund) tests.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Diablo

[Nekhbet]

Diablo there is a breeder in WA who has Sch titles even on their 'show lines' which I find VERY impressive.

Xavier some countries such as Germany demand their dogs be tested in a different manner to ours before breeding. Here is Australia, technically, a dog simply has to be on Main Register papers in order to be bred from. In Germany dogs have to pass BH, Sch1 (to prove temperament and workability - so they have good temperament, no weak nerves, can do agility, obedience, tracking and protection work) in order to breed. Imported dogs, even show lines, will have at least Sch 1 on them. This is why I pointed you to a breeder, and have sent you a PM with a recommendation, who has Sch in their dogs titles. These dogs are proven to be capable of at least a Sch 1 and are well conformed to do the job so aim for that.

Because german shepherds were banned in Australia at one point they GSDC wants a family friendly look to the breed. So no schutzhund or protection work is to be done by members of the club which I think is a great shame but that is just my opinion. You wont be thrown out of the thread but you will be hard pressed to find people on here who have or still do Schutzhund.

You also have the rights to ask how they determine compliance without ever trialling their breeding stock in the relevent workability (Schutzhund) tests.

as I've been told, the show ring

Edited October 11, 2009 by Nekhbet