Protective But Not Aggressive Breeds

[Nekhbet]

yes you have joined the dark side You are now officially a Mali Nut mmmwwwaaaaaahahahahaha

trust me, call me 5 1/2 years into the future and tell me it;s all been roses ;) I love her to bits but they can just get on your nerves every now and again ...

and yet we keep going back for more

and more

there is a new condition .... I think it's called MaliMasochism ... the overwhelming desire to be around working Malinois

Edited September 16, 2009 by Nekhbet

[SparkyTansy]

Just wondering if anyone who has been involved in training personal protection dogs ever seen a weimaraner in action?

nope. I cant see any aussie weims being able to cope with it at all most I have seen do not have the temperament at all. Considering they are not bred primarily for it I would think the ones that are doing it are the flukes of the lines, of course I could stand corrected.

you are right, they werent bred primarily for it but they also weren't bred primarily as a bird dog either... weims were bred with three things in mind, companion, hunter (blood tracker and bringing down large game) and protection... You are right I think there are few if any weims in australia that would be able to handle the work but I have heard that the German ones are something else altogether... i was just curious if anyone had come across one before who could do the job... they breed them softer now just like many other breeds out there.

[Nekhbet]

such is the pity sparktansy

I was asked about airedale's the other day ... they were surprised when I told them I had a whole book of muzzled airedale piccies as they were war dogs and ferocious defenders they must have thought I had gone a bit potty

thats why I want to branch out into rare and primative breeds the cotton wool brigade hasnt watered down the genetic cordial yet and made them into soggy saladas. Wow workability there's a novelty - the europeans love it, we here run from it.

[mita]

Friends of ours say they have the perfect protection team for their property & family. He's a builder with a lot of valuable tools, too.

His dog is a Dobe & his wife's dog is a Tibbie. The Tibbie is a brilliant alert dog that lets them know when there's a stranger around (only time it seriously barks), then the Dobe saunters out to take a look, scaring anyone with evil intent.

What the evil intender doesn't know, is that the Dobe is a real sweetie, & was a nanny dog to their children. Tho', thanks to his visual put-off, he's never been put to the test by anyone attacking.

Both dogs have only been trained with the usual pet-dog obedience.

Edited September 16, 2009 by mita

[SparkyTansy]

Yes you are right Nekhbet I guess the difference here with Weims anyway is that in Germany only those who have proven to be dedicated to the breed, and plans to work it, or has experience in working it, is allowed to own a Weimaraner... Here, anyone can own one.

I am not defending the breeders who have watered it down, as such, but just think in general it was inevitable given their evolved working history from blood tracker/hunter to bird dog...

Some of the instincts hold up though... not saying my weim would be suitable at all for protection work but she certainly has some interesting characteristics which i would say are more a fluke of the lines as you put it

[Jeff Jones]

So the utube clip of the Malinois, is that dog protection trained?

Yeh, those dogs belong to the Groupe d'Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale (GIGN) their main purpose is Counter Terrorism and Hostage Response missions. You can read up on them via this link http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/F...IGN/default.htm

Just wondering if anyone who has been involved in training personal protection dogs ever seen a weimaraner in action? I believe they are used quite a lot in Germany or they were... not sure if they are now. I would say the temperament of most in Australia wouldn't lend themselves well but the working ones in Germany might

I have not seen one in person trained as a personal protection / police dog but many European country's have dabbled in the use of various different breeds as police / personal protection dogs over the years including the weims, labradors and giant schnauzers to name a few. Most Europeans country's are now using Belgian / Dutch Shepherds.

[Aidan]

. You are right I think there are few if any weims in australia that would be able to handle the work but I have heard that the German ones are something else altogether...

It wouldn't surprise me at all, they generally have quite solid temperaments and plenty of energy and that has to come from somewhere up the line. Many breeds have working lines, particularly in Europe - Boxers, Airedales, Giant Schnauzers etc

[Wazzat Xolo]

Yes, I can't imagine any personal protection scenario that would require my dog to drag someone out of a car windows!

Well if someone was in my car and they were not supposed to be there it may help!!

J ;)

Sorry I just had too!!

[Guest rhapsodical78]

Anyone have any idea if the Airedales in this country are still up to the task?

Edited September 16, 2009 by rhapsodical78

[Akayla]

Awww you guys beat me - I was going to say anti terrorist type dogs (always sounds weird when you say that ) They say the way to tell the difference (this is just hearsay) is that a AT dog doesnt have a release word like the normal Police/defence dogs. They basically have to be torn off. That what Ive heard anyway

Anyone seen that vid with the GSD that runs straight up the front of a van, onto a roof to get a guy (training of course). Its just awesome watching this HUGE dog from inside the van and then over head as it seems to just run straight up no problems! Looks at Lakota - I think we need to go for another run Lakota neither of us could even make it to the top of the van ;)

Ive always thought it would be a great job to be a dog handler - problem is convincing other people I can manage the dogs No one wants to let the under 5 foot lady take the 60kg dog? Whats with that

Edited September 16, 2009 by Akayla

[Rex]

By the way she already owns a GSD, how many more 'protection breeds' does she need? The point is if you are going to rely on the fact the dog is an X breed alone to protect you then you are simply deluding yourself.

This is the bit I don't understand with the expectation that another breed could be more effective than a GSD for what the OP requires in a dog. From a visual deterrent perspective, a GSD given it's reputation in protection especially in handler deployed attack training is to a large extent the top of the tree. Perhaps a Rottweiler or Doberman may provide a similar visual effect to deter a potential attacker in a well known guardian breed. Understanding that the OP's GSD failed her at a time of need, wouldn't it fair to say that her individual dog failed her, not the breed??? Perhaps the GSD she has trained accordingly could result in what she needs???.

[Rex]

Most of you have reading comprehension and anger management issues it seems. Also, the garbage proliferated by you that no dog other than a protection trained dog will ever be useful in a threatening situation is just pure, unadulterated crap.

My GSD is "extremely" effective in a non protection trained dog and useful in a threatening situation as he is instictively a stranger aggressive dog. However, I would be less confident in non aggressive friendly dog's reaction in the same circumstances.

[Tilly]

I have had rotties and GSD's and I know they will protect me (because they are trained security dogs) but I still don't rely on them for my personal safety when out walking at night.

A dog attacking to defend it last resort - I do rely on the dogs to warn me of things I can't see. One nights I was walking our then elderly rottie when he started growling and looking towards a block of trees beside the path I was walking on. I looked and couldn't see a thing so I decided to play it safe and called out something like "if you can stay where you are, I will walk around as I don't have my dog muzzled". Next minute a couple of young men ran off in the opposite direction.

Maybe look at working line GSD as they tend to be more vocal and protective.

[Staranais]

So...

What were the results of the tests, Jeff?

[Akayla]

Ummm as far as I know some havent been done yet since the person and trainer have to agree on a date time ect.

[jacqui835]

When I was looking for my dog, I visited a lot of doberman breeders and many of them told me they believed that dobermans in Australia didn't have the protective side anymore, and were effectively "labs in doberman clothing". So I kept looking.

No I didn't want an aggressive dog, but all the dogs I've had so far in my life have been protective and I didn't want a dog who would run and hide in a dangerous situation. I've had rotties and german shepherds, fox terriers, staffies etc, all have been protective, none have been aggressive. Studies have shown that people are more scared of dogs (perhaps it's an instinctive thing) than they are of guns, so having a dog who doesn't hide behind you is an enormous deterrent.

I've never had any issues with dog aggression, and I've never had a dog that I couldn't control. When someone comes to my house, all the dogs I've had have given warning barks. They then usually watch how I react to the person. If I like the person, my dogs have liked them too. If I don't, the dogs have made it obvious they want the person gone too. Sometimes I've had sales people at my door, and the dog can obviously sense I don't like them and continue to step up the threatening behaviour, but I have always been able to just say enough and go away and the dog does. It's just interesting because my dogs can read me so well.

After over a year of looking for a breeder, I found one who felt the same way I did, and now I have what I consider the perfect dog.

My advice to you (the OP) would be to keep looking for a breeder who understands exactly what you're looking for. Make sure though that you are prepared and understand the responsibilities of owning a powerful breed who still has its protective instincts. My dogs have training every day for their entire lives, they are dogs first then whatever else I want them to be and they live in an environment where nothing comes for free.

You can be lucky and end up with a mixed breed rescue/pet shop dog that has natural protective instincts, but I think you have a better chance if you manage to find a breeder who is looking for the same thing in their dogs as you are.

Hope this helps.

[huski]

When I was looking for my dog, I visited a lot of doberman breeders and many of them told me they believed that dobermans in Australia didn't have the protective side anymore, and were effectively "labs in doberman clothing". So I kept looking.

No I didn't want an aggressive dog, but all the dogs I've had so far in my life have been protective and I didn't want a dog who would run and hide in a dangerous situation.

What do you class as a dangerous situation, though? How do you know your dog would follow through with its "protectiveness"?

[jacqui835]

When I was looking for my dog, I visited a lot of doberman breeders and many of them told me they believed that dobermans in Australia didn't have the protective side anymore, and were effectively "labs in doberman clothing". So I kept looking.

No I didn't want an aggressive dog, but all the dogs I've had so far in my life have been protective and I didn't want a dog who would run and hide in a dangerous situation.

What do you class as a dangerous situation, though? How do you know your dog would follow through with its "protectiveness"?

A dangerous situation as far as I'm concerned would be one where there is a threat to either myself, any friend/family member with me or my property.

I suppose I don't know that they would follow through as I've fortunately never been in a position to test it. That said, we once had some painters in our house, and they seemed a bit suss. (Turns out they were running an illegal pirating dvd service amongst other things but we didn't know this at the time, they just gave off suspicious vibes). Anyway, either the dog could tell I thought they were a bit odd or thought they were himself, and whilst normally when we have servicemen/women in the house the dogs go and lie back down, in this case, they continued to follow them around. Not too closely, but just were always in the same room. Anyway, I was in my bedroom at the time, and when one of them came in and started asking what movies I'd like to watch, saying he could get any for me even ones that hadn't come out at the cinemas yet, my dog started growling and positioned himself between me and the guy. It possibly sounds fine, but, at the time, it just felt a bit weird and I didn't really want the painters coming into my bedroom etc. The guy tried to shoo my dog out of the way, quite aggressively too, but my dog didn't move, and eventually the painter left. This was a rottie by the way and back when I was younger and still living with my family, but I was home alone at the time.

So I can't say for sure whether my dog would have followed it up or not, but he had both myself and the painter convinced that he would. I've never had one of my dogs hide from a situation, or leave my side when a stranger is at the door, but I deliberately seek out breeders who strive to produce these qualities in dogs. Never aggressive, never dominant (well that comes from the training), only protective. They learn to recognise what's normal and what's not if you socialise them properly, and they also learn to read you.

[Jeff Jones]

So...

What were the results of the tests, Jeff?

Ummm as far as I know some havent been done yet since the person and trainer have to agree on a date time ect

That is correct the first couple should be done by late next month, the others will be a few months away. The results will be posted as soon as all of them are available.

[KaiGSD&Cav]

When Kaiser was a younger dog and we did alot of walking at night and early in the morning. If someone was approaching us I would say watch and loosen the lead slightly, he would go from heal to infront of me and put his ears forward and watch the person. It must have been intimidating as most people took a wide berth after this. Once someone was following me, which I was unaware of as I was listening to my ipod. Kaiser stopped at a tree and turned and looked at the person and didn't move until he crossed the road, I like to think he saved me that day.