Protective But Not Aggressive Breeds

[Jeff Jones]

this is ridiculous.

1) you relied on an untrained dog to 'protect' you. Why should the dog put itself at risk at all? It goes against most natural instincts

2) if you want a guarenteed dog that will protect you have to buy a trained personal protection dog.

3) I wouldnt be owning a dog that took it upon itself to decide when to behave in a menacing/dangerous manner

I dont know why people make 'suggestions' there is no guarentee unless the dog is trained.

Most breeds these days can't even fathom having enough natural instinct to do what they were originally trained to do so dont bother listening to 'oh get this breed/that breed etc'.

I agree, I do not know why people with an untrained dog expect it to give a trained response.

To have a dog trained in personal protection to a level where the dog will protect you against most threats takes years of training and development.

[Nekhbet]

I guess because everyone likes to think their doggies love them so much they would protect them to the death.

Not true. And it shows a thorough lack of understanding as to what a protection dog actually is if you prefer a dog that takes it upon itself to decide to 'protect' then to have your dog 'attack trained'. It is not attack training and I resent it being called just that. Personal protection, security dogs etc need a LOT of work, obedience, control etc and I tell you what most of them are a hell of a lot safer then the average pet dogs people have. I know what the dog in my hand will do, how it will react and that I can turn it on and off, then a pet dog that suddenly has a go at a stranger who may mistakenly move in a way that the DOG perceives threatening. Many disabled and elderly people move and behave in weird ways, do you want your dog to decide to attack them too? That is what you are wanting in your dog, the decision.

You will never know what your dog does unless you train it too react X in situation Y. Fact of life. Teaching a dog to bark on command, and teaching it to bark when it feels uncomfortable is two different things and can open cans of worms you might not want or expect.

If your dog barks at a person and the person complains you open yourself up to menacing or even DD slapped on your dog.

[Wazzat Xolo]

AS others have said YEARS of training is needed for a dog to be protection trained and thats daily training and still they are always an animal and will have the instincts of such.

Best protection is to have some self protection device, whistles ( not sure what Laws are in your state re chem agents, mace , spray etc) in WA it is an offence to release a dog on a person, insite an attack and can result in heavy penalties.

Even the best trained Dogs (as in service dogs not pets trained as pretend body guards) can revert to instinct at times.

Maybe protection devices, alternate routes, and a partner to accompany you would be the best course of action, than putting yourself in danger and the dog at risk of being labelled a DD.

J

I guess because everyone likes to think their doggies love them so much they would protect them to the death.

Not true. And it shows a thorough lack of understanding as to what a protection dog actually is if you prefer a dog that takes it upon itself to decide to 'protect' then to have your dog 'attack trained'. It is not attack training and I resent it being called just that. Personal protection, security dogs etc need a LOT of work, obedience, control etc and I tell you what most of them are a hell of a lot safer then the average pet dogs people have. I know what the dog in my hand will do, how it will react and that I can turn it on and off, then a pet dog that suddenly has a go at a stranger who may mistakenly move in a way that the DOG perceives threatening. Many disabled and elderly people move and behave in weird ways, do you want your dog to decide to attack them too? That is what you are wanting in your dog, the decision.

You will never know what your dog does unless you train it too react X in situation Y. Fact of life. Teaching a dog to bark on command, and teaching it to bark when it feels uncomfortable is two different things and can open cans of worms you might not want or expect.

If your dog barks at a person and the person complains you open yourself up to menacing or even DD slapped on your dog.

[all that glitters]

If your dog barks at a person and the person complains you open yourself up to menacing or even DD slapped on your dog.

Just from a bark?

[Nekhbet]

if the dog barks at a person and they feel threatened they have every right to go to the council and complain. Even better if the ranger visits and your dog is behaving the same way. In some councils jumping at the fence and barking can be a reason to give you grief.

I'm not saying its logical. It does exist particularly when a dog feels stressed and you taught it to bark it wont look very good to the 3rd person.

[BJean]

this is ridiculous.

1) you relied on an untrained dog to 'protect' you. Why should the dog put itself at risk at all? It goes against most natural instincts

2) if you want a guarenteed dog that will protect you have to buy a trained personal protection dog.

3) I wouldnt be owning a dog that took it upon itself to decide when to behave in a menacing/dangerous manner

I dont know why people make 'suggestions' there is no guarentee unless the dog is trained.

Most breeds these days can't even fathom having enough natural instinct to do what they were originally trained to do so dont bother listening to 'oh get this breed/that breed etc'.

just because I am procrastinating writing a report I will step in and say

that a central asian WILL protect its owners and you can rely on them to do that - the guarantee is inherent in what the dog is -

however you would need to be aware that you cannot train the level of the dogs defence response

ie: okay fido that's enough now you have the threat pinned

the complication with the cao defence response would be that the intruder would suffer lacertaions etc

(fwiw a cao owner was allowed to keep their dogs when the dogs responded in defence of their owner - the vicitm was in hospital for a while though.)

I'm not advocating a cao to the OP, just pointing out that if someone wanted a reliable dog that they could guarantee would protect them if they were under threat, then a central asian would do the job.

Edited September 12, 2009 by lilli

[Jeff Jones]

If someone wants a reliable protection dog they should get a dog properly trained as a personal protection dog from a proven and experienced trainer. I do not advise anyone regardless of the breed of dog to expect the dog to naturally protect them in most situations.

A dog that is trained in various situations on what to do VS an untrained dog going from natural instincts will offer you better protection. It would be like me walking on to a farm with my untrained Belgian Shepherd and expecting him to herd up the sheep. He may chase the sheep around and look like he knows what he is doing to the untrained eye but in reality he would not be completing the correct task, and it would be wrong of me to rely on him to complete the task as effectively as a trained dog.

A properly trained protection dog goes through years of training and proofing in many different situations and environments which enables you to assess and know your dog’s ability as to what trained/controlled response your dog is capable of. You cannot rely on an untrained dog to be able to offer you the same level of protection as a trained dog regardless of breed.

Corrected some typos...

Edited September 12, 2009 by Jeff Jones

[all that glitters]

if the dog barks at a person and they feel threatened they have every right to go to the council and complain. Even better if the ranger visits and your dog is behaving the same way. In some councils jumping at the fence and barking can be a reason to give you grief.

I'm not saying its logical. It does exist particularly when a dog feels stressed and you taught it to bark it wont look very good to the 3rd person.

I bet it wouldn't be the same result if it were a maltese or chihuahua or other small breed dog cos they are 'harmless'

[GeckoTree]

If thats the case its amazing anyone bothered to create different breeds for protection jobs then, may as well just train dogs for jobs.

[Kavik]

ANY type of dog that is expected to work needs to be trained for it - some breeds have more drive or instinct for the work but that alone is not enough. Jeff gave the example of a sheepdog. There are many sheepdog/herding breeds, but you would not expect a herding dog to do what is asked of it with no training - it might show good instinct (necessary or won't be any good) but you can't expect it to take direction and do exactly as asked with no training. Or retrieving, pointing, etc.

[Jeff Jones]

If thats the case its amazing anyone bothered to create different breeds for protection jobs then, may as well just train dogs for jobs.

I do not recall anyone saying that you can train any dog to be a personal protection dog nor did I or any of the posts I have read imply you could, obviously you need a dog that possesses the correct temperament and drives to commence training. A breed of dog where these traits are purposefully being bred in to is obviously going to give you a greater chance of finding, selecting and developing a dog with the ability to commence personal protection training than one that is not.

The only way to guarantee your dog reacts as desired is to commence training with your dog which is why I said you should contact a proven and experienced trainer, the first thing any personal protection dog trainer should do is assess your suitability for owning / training / handling a personal protection dog and then they should assess whether your dog has the desired drives and temperament to commence training.

You want your personal protection dog to help you control the situation you are in which is why you need to undergo regular training, with an untrained dog you will not be able to effectively control your dog which means it will not offer you any reliable assistance. How can you rely on your dog for protection in most situations when you cannot control your dog and you do not know how it will react?

Through regular training you have a good idea of what you and your dog are capable of and you gain experience with how to appropriately handle and direct your dog. It is no good assuming you and your dog will be able to handle the situation when the time comes.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Jeff Jones

[KitKat]

Both my GSD's have proven that they will stand their ground if someone comes at me, have leapt forward barking and carrying out the 'hounds of hell' impression - neither have been trained for it and neither are 'working lines' as such.

So much comes down to the individual dog itself - i had a Lab that was incredibly protective, but was the sookiest, friendliest dog around. My old LabxRott Harm (rip) was accidently tested for protection work (short version, other dog was aggresive so we wanted to see if we could train him to use it or more to the point stop) and Harm proved to have a strong but calm instinct for it (other dog hid behind me...lol).

Perhaps consider a Bullmastiff? Great dogs for a veriety of reasons not to mention the look of them will deter and they generally have a calm and protective nature...but then again...you could get one that will hide behind you...

ETA - i don't expect my dogs to protect me...in fact beware of me anyone threatening my dogs! But if the dogs start getting antsy they'll settle with a command or two without issues.

Edited September 12, 2009 by KitKat

[Cosmolo]

Just to add, there are some dogs that may bark and react with a threatening person approaching that will still turn tail and run when directly challenged.

[Dogsfevr]

Should also be noted Op has a cocker that has issues

I need to get my Cocker out and interacting with other dogs and was wondering if anyone could maybe meet up at a park nearby with a VERY mellow dog? She is not aggressive but so fearful of strange dogs that she literally ......defecates herself...!! She is fine with our family's other dogs and I have tried taking her to dog training but the club I belong to is pretty intense and serous about training and her screaming, yipping and .....defecating is pretty much un-welcomed!

[KitKat]

If your dog barks at a person and the person complains you open yourself up to menacing or even DD slapped on your dog.

Just from a bark?

In Brissie if you list yourself as having been threatened or frightened by a dogs actions that dog can find itself listed as a dangerous dog without that dog even being on the same side of fence as the 'frightened' person.

[Guest rhapsodical78]

this is ridiculous.

1) you relied on an untrained dog to 'protect' you. Why should the dog put itself at risk at all? It goes against most natural instincts

2) if you want a guarenteed dog that will protect you have to buy a trained personal protection dog.

3) I wouldnt be owning a dog that took it upon itself to decide when to behave in a menacing/dangerous manner

I dont know why people make 'suggestions' there is no guarentee unless the dog is trained.

Most breeds these days can't even fathom having enough natural instinct to do what they were originally trained to do so dont bother listening to 'oh get this breed/that breed etc'.

just because I am procrastinating writing a report I will step in and say

that a central asian WILL protect its owners and you can rely on them to do that - the guarantee is inherent in what the dog is -

however you would need to be aware that you cannot train the level of the dogs defence response

ie: okay fido that's enough now you have the threat pinned

the complication with the cao defence response would be that the intruder would suffer lacertaions etc

(fwiw a cao owner was allowed to keep their dogs when the dogs responded in defence of their owner - the vicitm was in hospital for a while though.)

I'm not advocating a cao to the OP, just pointing out that if someone wanted a reliable dog that they could guarantee would protect them if they were under threat, then a central asian would do the job.

Sanity at last, Lilli!

[Monah]

My honest advice?

Don't rely on a dog for your personal security - take responsibility for it yourself. Buy a personal alarm and avoid areas where your personal security may be at risk.

Unless you have a trained protection dog ANY dog's protectiveness is a big question mark. If you do own a trained protection dog, it's automatically a dangerous dog with all the restrictions that imposes.

I completely agree with this. I protect my dogs, not the other way around.

having said that, I have had a cattle dog (15 years) who was very very protective and a Border collie (working short hair) who is even more protective. Neither were trained to be, neither have ever bitten anyone, BUT they havent' been pushed, one look at their behaviour and no one will attempt anything. Mind you, they are/were very good and when told relax, would be as soft as the softest dog and the best kids dogs ever. I would never tolerate a dog deciding when to take someone on

(that's not aimed at Lilli either, but at people who say they want a dog FOR protection and don't know what they are doing)

Also had a very protective Patterdale terrier when growing up too.

[Guest rhapsodical78]

The Maremma would be happy there as long as you lived with it as part of the family and didnt leave it on its own.

Ive placed Maremmas as pets where they have been in small areas.

Steve, what do you think is the likelihood of a Maremma protecting its owner if the situation required it?

[tdierikx]

I was once in a position of having a very drunk and aggressive flatmate brandish a knife at me... and my totally untrained crossbreed dog got between me and the threat and made it known under no uncertain terms what would happen if he came any closer to me... and she was a medium sized nondescript mutt... the flatmate got the point though... *grin*

My heart dog (Rottie) was sleeping on my bed with me one morning when another flatmate knocked then opened my door to let me know that someone wanted me on the phone - and it was the funniest sight watching this 10 week old puppy stand over me and put on a defensive display at my 6'4" male Maori flatmate... he wasn't intimidated... much... The same dog would regularly stand in front of me if she picked up something strange about anyone approaching us on walks too - but as soon as I let her know I wasn't feeling any threat, she would relax and let them approach and touch her, or whatever. She was NEVER trained to do anything other than very basic obedience...

T.

[Rex]

My GSD would have taken the guy's arm off before he raised it,

Brilliant. Then been possibly put down for being a dangerous dog. Nice going Rex.... Ever stopped to think that if your big tough attack dog actually did bite someone then its good bye dog? Before you add your comments about how he is "trained" and "if its on your property, its not the dogs fault if it attacks" Take a long hard look at some of the recent dog stories in the news. If some small child wanders near your dog or sticks its hands through a fence to reach your dog and it "defends its territory" I doubt people will say "oh leave the dog be, tis defending its territory" Odds on your dog would be destroyed.

especially if you threaten to release the dog if they fail to move on

thank you Mr Burns. "Smithers, release the hounds!"

Rubbish, this is where people need to learn and understand the laws that govern dogs. Sad as it may be, if people don't "train" their children how to behave around dogs and to understand that dogs have teeth that can cause them harm is not my problem. Kids can't stick their hands through my fence in the first place, no gaps in the fences large enough, not an issue. In the instance where my dog is leashed as it is in public and someone wishes to get within it's 2 metres of personal space permitted under the laws of SA and wishes to interfere with me or my dog and gets bitten, bad luck, the dog will not be destroyed at all. Dogs are not fair game for all and sundry to have the right to mess with. My dog, my property leave it alone and if you want a dog to pat and cuddle, buy your own is my stand on the matter.

My dog behaves perfectly within the boudaries of it's leash in public, but rush at me aggressively with my choice not to command the dog to "leave it", watch out, he will fire up, that's how it is.