tomas Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I have freinds with a new puppy who want to feed raw to their new dog. I feed raw and gave them all the info they needed,I have raised 6 dogs on raw with no problems. However,once they put down a meal of meaty bones they freaked. Dog was going to choke and die etc etc. So now they want to do half dry and half raw. I said pick one as it's too easy to get it wrong either way. But they are adamant they want to feed half and half. I am sure some of you out there do this with much success so am asking for a little info. 1. Do you split the dry food and meat or bones up,like feed separately? 2. How do you feel like you are achieving a balance of nutrients? Any help is much appreciated . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 A good quality kibble balanced with some RMBs would be a well balanced diet for a dog. If the dog is not getting offal etc then a balanced kibble will be required. I'd keep the processed and raw meals separate. This is basically how I feed these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 A good quality kibble balanced with some RMBs would be a well balanced diet for a dog. If the dog is not getting offal etc then a balanced kibble will be required. I'd keep the processed and raw meals separate. This is basically how I feed these days. Tahnks for that. What RMB's do you use and do you add meaty meat and offal at all,say at those separate meals? What is the ratio of dry and raw you use,alternate meals? Also any digestive upsets? Would ground chicken carcasses work as well,as they are bone phobic,yet I said puppy would LOVE to chew on bones or thier shoes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leo01 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Hi Thomas, I feed both, keep the processed and raw meals separate too. I do a cup of dry in the morning then raw at night. My raw is based on a prey model diet- 5-10% organs (Liver and kidney), 10-15% edible bones, 80-85% muscle meat...... TBH I simply try to feed prey model, as close as what he would eat naturually in the wild, as this makes sense to me. However with the back up of the kibble this simply helps to ease my mind that he isnt missing out on anything essential. Leo also gets fruit/veg sometimes, i would say 2-3 times a week but not set amount what/amount to give him- left over seamed beans, carrot skins and capsicum bits as i cut them up for dinner and frozen peas usually Plus fish every week or 2 -Either tin sardines or fresh white fish when we are eating it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Hi Thomas, I feed both, keep the processed and raw meals separate too. I do a cup of dry in the morning then raw at night. My raw is based on a prey model diet- 5-10% organs (Liver and kidney), 10-15% edible bones, 80-85% muscle meat...... TBH I simply try to feed prey model, as close as what he would eat naturually in the wild, as this makes sense to me. However with the back up of the kibble this simply helps to ease my mind that he isnt missing out on anything essential. Leo also gets fruit/veg sometimes, i would say 2-3 times a week but not set amount what/amount to give him- left over seamed beans, carrot skins and capsicum bits as i cut them up for dinner and frozen peas usually Plus fish every week or 2 -Either tin sardines or fresh white fish when we are eating it) Really appreciate your info leo01,as I have never fed dry I have NO idea! I feed prey model too Seems like it's best to keep the meals separate then. I have heard dry and raw are digested at different rates. How do you work out HOW much raw you feed ? Also do your guys look around for bones at all after eating the dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 1. Do you split the dry food and meat or bones up,like feed separately?2. How do you feel like you are achieving a balance of nutrients? I quite often combine the two in the same meal,usually a barf patty + a cup of evo + an egg or a tin of sardines.The rest of his meals are stuff like lamb necks,roo tails,fresh sardines and chicken frames stuffed with lamb heart. The simplest way is to alternate days of quality kibble with days of raw.I think this can take a lot of the guess work out and can put an 'overthinkers' mind to rest. There is a member of another forum that I frequent who feeds this way,one day of kibble-one day chicken frames,and her dogs look really incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 1. Do you split the dry food and meat or bones up,like feed separately?2. How do you feel like you are achieving a balance of nutrients? I quite often combine the two in the same meal,usually a barf patty + a cup of evo + an egg or a tin of sardines.The rest of his meals are stuff like lamb necks,roo tails,fresh sardines and chicken frames stuffed with lamb heart. The simplest way is to alternate days of quality kibble with days of raw.I think this can take a lot of the guess work out and can put an 'overthinkers' mind to rest. There is a member of another forum that I frequent who feeds this way,one day of kibble-one day chicken frames,and her dogs look really incredible. Thanks Jamie, I think they would like to have some dry and some raw at every meal...I told them I was worried about a tummy upset etc. Glad to know it can be done. Gee I have had dogs for like 12 years and have so little idea about this,so am learning stuff here today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) What RMB's do you use and do you add meaty meat and offal at all,say at those separate meals? What is the ratio of dry and raw you use,alternate meals? Also any digestive upsets? I feed turkey wing pieces, chicken wings and legs, lamb flaps(ribs), necks or shankds and larger beef bones for recreation. I do feed the odd meal of gravy beef or lamb without bone just to up the red meat component of their diet. I used to make up my own "barf mix" with fruit/veg pulp and offal but haven't lately. One of my boys doesn't handle lamb all well and another gets the runs if fed too much beef. I just manage that. I feed two days raw, one day kibble. The Whippet is still on 2 meals a day so he gets more kibble. Would ground chicken carcasses work as well,as they are bone phobic,yet I said puppy would LOVE to chew on bones or thier shoes! Yes, chicken pet mince is a good substitute nutrionally but without something to chew on in their pup's diet, they'll have ongoing dental issues and I suspect destructive chewing around the home also. If they are phobic the answer is simple - feed bones too large to swallow in a gulp and supervise the meal. They can also feed chewable dog treats like kangaroo or beef tendon but these also could be choked on. Dogs can choke on kibble too! Edited September 9, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leo01 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Really appreciate your info leo01,as I have never fed dry I have NO idea!I feed prey model too Seems like it's best to keep the meals separate then. I have heard dry and raw are digested at different rates. How do you work out HOW much raw you feed ? Also do your guys look around for bones at all after eating the dry? TBH, i really not to picky, I simply go by look/feel of Leos weight (Leo is a 26kg Staffy BTW). I meat shop once a month and find I need around 12-14kg of meat a month to feed Leo, so I buy: - around 2kg or so of kidney/Liver (I split this up into bags and once a week he gets in a meal with boiled liver/kidney plus some muscle meat as he wont touch it raw still!), - Lamb heart around 4kg, Lamb tounge around 2-3kg, meaty lamb off cuts which has small amount of bone also around 3kg (These are fed together as a meat, such as 1-2 lamb hearts and a meaty lamb off cut with a bit of bone) plus raw meaty bones such as lambs neck, ribs/flaps or chicken frames with offals attached, and chicken merrylands (These I feed as a whole meal) I used to weigh every thing/anything raw I gave him! To make sure he was eating around 2% of his body weight daily but it just seemed so silly! re-weighing over and over to get spot on daily amount and then bag and freeze. Now, as i said, i just try to get the months worth of meat 'balanced' in terms of prey model feeding, bag, freeze then feed whichever way is most convenient/qucikest. I feel as long as it is balanced over time, plus added nutrients from the kibble & veg bits, and making sure that looking/feeling him i can feel the last couple of ribs and he isnt looking to skinny/to fat ect, he does ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I feed raw and kibble in the evenings and raw only in the mornings. I don't have any issue with it and neither do any of the dogs. I don't feed bones though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 I feed raw and kibble in the evenings and raw only in the mornings. I don't have any issue with it and neither do any of the dogs. I don't feed bones though. Really happy to know that some people feed the raw and kibble together and don't have issues. I am thankful for all the help you guys are giving me,going to make an email of all the info and send to my friends. By the way they have a Neo mastiff pup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Yes, chicken pet mince is a good substitute nutrionally but without something to chew on in their pup's diet, they'll have ongoing dental issues and I suspect destructive chewing around the home also. If they are phobic the answer is simple - feed bones too large to swallow in a gulp and supervise the meal. They can also feed chewable dog treats like kangaroo or beef tendon but these also could be choked on. Dogs can choke on kibble too! I am hopeful they will give him some bones....it has been a struggle to get get them sorted,first time puppy owners. I just want their baby to have the best possible start as he is a large breed and I said no matter what they do,they just need to do it right as joint issues could arise if they don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Yes, chicken pet mince is a good substitute nutrionally but without something to chew on in their pup's diet, they'll have ongoing dental issues and I suspect destructive chewing around the home also. If they are phobic the answer is simple - feed bones too large to swallow in a gulp and supervise the meal. They can also feed chewable dog treats like kangaroo or beef tendon but these also could be choked on. Dogs can choke on kibble too! I am hopeful they will give him some bones....it has been a struggle to get get them sorted,first time puppy owners. I just want their baby to have the best possible start as he is a large breed and I said no matter what they do,they just need to do it right as joint issues could arise if they don't! Damn right! If they bought from a responsible breeder, that person is probably the best source of information on this topic. You only get one chance to get it right with a growing pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavandra Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 There can be "issues" with feeding both. The fake food is much more difficult for the dog to process, and therefore sits in the stomach much longer than raw food does.........Some dogs get seriously sick due to the raw food staying in the gut too long & bacteria gets time to grow........salmonella etc..... That is why it is recomended that if you feed both to feed them at seperate meals....as the raw diet will be processed far more quickly & easily, while the fake foods will keep the raw in the gut too long. Hope you know what I mean LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 There can be "issues" with feeding both. The fake food is much more difficult for the dog to process, and therefore sits in the stomach much longer than raw food does.........Some dogs get seriously sick due to the raw food staying in the gut too long & bacteria gets time to grow........salmonella etc.....That is why it is recomended that if you feed both to feed them at seperate meals....as the raw diet will be processed far more quickly & easily, while the fake foods will keep the raw in the gut too long. Hope you know what I mean LOL I DO know what you mean,I made the choice to feed raw for that reason. But as they just don't feel they can do a raw diet justice they came up with the idea of mixing both. I am trying to get as much info as I can together for them,they have done some internet reseach but are not on DOL,so I thought I would ask the experts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Damn right! If they bought from a responsible breeder, that person is probably the best source of information on this topic. You only get one chance to get it right with a growing pup. Their breeder feeds dry only and they seem to think they will get the best of both worls if they feed a mixed diet...not sure if that is logical though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampy Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) I also feed dry and raw in the same meal and have had no problems. I don't feed bones. My dogs are feed once a day and they get kibble topped up with kangaroo, vegetables and fruit most days. To mix things up I also give cooked chicken, raw beef, raw lamb, sardines, yoghurt, eggs etc. Our homeopathic vet has said that if you feed half or more of their daily requirement of kibble you should be fine and not need to worry about supplements. If you feed less then half kibble then you have to add supplements like calcium etc. While she would prefer we fed raw, she believes that if you are going to feed dry you should supplement with fresh meat, vege, fruit etc. She also has no problem doing this in the same meal. Ultimately it is the condition of our dogs that tells us we are on the right track. They visit their breeder regularly and she is very happy with how they look, their weight and their coats. Good on you for caring for your friend's pup. Hope they work out their feeding routine. ETA - I'm not sure if the half kibble ratio would work for a pup. I would veer towards feeding the prescribed amount of kibble and using raw as a top up. Just watch for weight gain. Edited September 9, 2009 by vampy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I also feed dry and raw in the same meal and have had no problems. I don't feed bones. My dogs are feed once a day and they get kibble topped up with kangaroo, vegetables and fruit most days. To mix things up I also give cooked chicken, raw beef, raw lamb, sardines, yoghurt, eggs etc.Our homeopathic vet has said that if you feed half or more of their daily requirement of kibble you should be fine and not need to worry about supplements. If you feed less then half kibble then you have to add supplements like calcium etc. While she would prefer we fed raw, she believes that if you are going to feed dry you should supplement with fresh meat, vege, fruit etc. She also has no problem doing this in the same meal. Ultimately it is the condition of our dogs that tells us we are on the right track. They visit their breeder regularly and she is very happy with how they look, their weight and their coats. Good on you for caring for your friend's pup. Hope they work out their feeding routine. ETA - I'm not sure if the half kibble ratio would work for a pup. I would veer towards feeding the prescribed amount of kibble and using raw as a top up. Just watch for weight gain. I would be very cautious about adding calcium to a pup's diet. Tomas, if your friends aren't going to feed an appropriate (ie containing bone) raw diet, their pup will do better on a good quality kibble. I would suggest they seek advice about whether to feed a "puppy" or an "adult" formula as many giant dog breeders are cautious about the high levels of calcium found in such formulas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampy Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) Thanks poodlefan! I hesitated to post because I have little experience with puppies. My advice would be better for when the pup is older. eta - spelling Edited September 9, 2009 by vampy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampy Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) double post Edited September 9, 2009 by vampy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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