Flat Coated Retriever

[Guest sharynriding]

Not sure about this country, Skyehaven will probably know but do believe there are some liver Show Champions in the UK.

[skyehaven]

Quick question, has a liver FCR ever attained a Gr. Ch?

no liver flat coats have got Grand Champion. But not heaps have been shown either. I have shown 3, all titled but thats it. Could have Grand championed at least 2 under old rules if i pushed it, but had better dogs, not under new rules though. Bushman have won a group or rubig with one quite a while ago.

Edited November 4, 2010 by skyehaven

[RallyValley]

Quick question, has a liver FCR ever attained a Gr. Ch?

no liver flat coats have got Grand Champion. But not heaps have been shown either. I have shown 3, both titled but thats it. Bushman have won a group or rubig with one quite a while ago.

Your boy Archer is what inspired my question , I was having a look at your website today and he is stunning

[skyehaven]

Quick question, has a liver FCR ever attained a Gr. Ch?

no liver flat coats have got Grand Champion. But not heaps have been shown either. I have shown 3, both titled but thats it. Bushman have won a group or rubig with one quite a while ago.

Your boy Archer is what inspired my question , I was having a look at your website today and he is stunning

Thanks, he is a nice dog, if i had got someone to show him, would have, Chris Clarke titled him in Tasmania, but didn't fit into her plans, and wasn't quite as good as a couple of my black dogs, so wasn't worth me pushing him, he is in a pet home now.

[RallyValley]

Thats a shame about Archer but I am sure he is having just as much of a good time as a pet! I was having a cuddle with Tika last week, she is such a cutie. But not nearly as big as Rebus.

[fetchitup]

Thanks valleyCBR :-) The boys should be taller than the girls but hey I am sure Rebus can't jump as high as Tika can from a stand

I was having a cuddle with Tika last week, she is such a cutie. But not nearly as big as Rebus.

[RallyValley]

Thanks valleyCBR :-) The boys should be taller than the girls but hey I am sure Rebus can't jump as high as Tika can from a stand

I was having a cuddle with Tika last week, she is such a cutie. But not nearly as big as Rebus.

No I think she has that covered She just has the best temprament I bet you can't wait to start sports with er.

[skyehaven]

Thanks valleyCBR :-) The boys should be taller than the girls but hey I am sure Rebus can't jump as high as Tika can from a stand

I was having a cuddle with Tika last week, she is such a cutie. But not nearly as big as Rebus.

No I think she has that covered She just has the best temprament I bet you can't wait to start sports with er.

He can jump pretty high, but his landing needs some work!

[fetchitup]

Don't think Tika will do any dog sports in the near future. Need to control all those happy beans first, so my guess would be 2020

No problems with jumping head high from a stand but who cares about the landing. they all come down somehow :D

[RallyValley]

The AKC (US) standard for the FCR is quite different then that used by FCI. Does anyone in this thread know if they came up with it as a breed club or if they are based on an older UK version?

[YOLO]

Flat Coats, like many breeds, have been bred over hundreds of years for a specific purpose. Hence they were bred from dogs already best equipped, and further refined.

Some dogs were bred to hunt, some to kill other animals, some to kill rats, and unfortunately some to fight.

All dogs are most definitely NOT the same when it comes to bite. Jaws, skull, muscles, teeth, and mouth ALL vary from breed to breed.

Flatties were bred to retrieve downed game, ie birds you had shot. Last thing you want if you've just shot a plump pheasant would be to have your retriever crunch it to a pulp. Hence Flatties have been selected and bred to have big soft floppy mouths, with weak jaws. (Yes, the pressure that dogs can exert with their jaws DOES vary massively between breeds.)

Flatties have a beautiful temperament. As a toddler, our daughter would sit on our aged Flattie Ralph and pull and tug on ears and tail. She basically treated him like a big warm plush-toy. Not only did he tolerate it, but he would seek her out to play and just lay there whilst she bounced on him.

I am a PARANOID parent, but I have never had the slightest cause for concern with Flatties.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Big D

[sandgrubber]

Flatties have a beautiful temperament. As a toddler, our daughter would sit on our aged Flattie Ralph and pull and tug on ears and tail. She basically treated him like a big warm plush-toy. Not only did he tolerate it, but he would seek her out to play and just lay there whilst she bounced on him.

If I were to choose a breed for average temperament, I'd get a flattie . .. .They stand out as the extreme for playful, sociable, and fearlessness in Svartberg's benchmark study of breed temperament. (see attached table, source noted on attachment. This was a huge study . . . something like 15000 dogs put through a standardized behavioral test).

Edited December 13, 2014 by sandgrubber

[Salukifan]

Flatties were bred to retrieve downed game, ie birds you had shot. Last thing you want if you've just shot a plump pheasant would be to have your retriever crunch it to a pulp. Hence Flatties have been selected and bred to have big soft floppy mouths, with weak jaws. (Yes, the pressure that dogs can exert with their jaws DOES vary massively between breeds.)

Again, you are confusing bite inhibition (which must be taught) with jaw structure. Nothing "weak" with a gun dog's jaw. You don't carry large game birds with a weak jaw.

Gundog puppies are notoriously mouthy because they are predisposed to it. Fail to channel that mouthiness in constructive directions and you end up with a real issue with young kids.

NO dog is child proof. Golden Retrievers are high in bite statistics in Canada. My guess is that the idea that they are naturally kid proof and have 'soft mouths' is part of the problem.

I think Flatcoats are an undiscovered gem of a family dog provided the family can channel their energy and need for work in positive directions. An untrained Flatcoat pup or a dog a child is allowed to treat like a big plush toy is a recipe for trouble. They ARE dogs.

[YOLO]

Don't get we wrong, I would never leave a child with ANY dog I didn't know and trust.

Unfortunately I have seen a poor flattie who had been abused and was quite psychotic. I put my hand through the mesh so he could sniff me, and he went nuts and BIT me. Fortunately being a flattie I escaped with only scratches. (Of course I'm a grown man with big tough hands, a child would have been less fortunate.)

So I wouldn't buy any dog and just assume he's going to be ok. However Ralph was with us for around 14 years. Despite being entire, and quite old, he retained the most beautiful temperament, and "wrestling" with a toddler was just his speed.

I have also met some Rottis with beautiful temperaments, including one who was the most placid dog I've ever met.

The difference is that IF a Rotti wants to hurt you, he can do real damage. Our neighbour would bring his young Rotti over to socialise with our kids, but he always had her on a strong leash, and he was a big strong guy capable of controlling her if need be.

The biting problems with Goldies & Labs does stem from their abundance as family pets and the fact that they are so trusted. Personally, I HAVE seen Goldies, particularly older ones, get a bit snappish with children. Fact still remains though that if a dog is going to bite you, a retreiver will do a lot less damage than some other breeds.

That said, my biggest love is still Flatties' temperament, and for that reason they generally make ideal family pets and companions.

the downside is that they don't make good "kennel dogs" or "leave at home" dogs for working couples.

[sandgrubber]

Someone asked about cancer back on page one of this discussion.

Yes, Flatties have high risk of cancer. See:

Review Article

Breed-Predispositions to Cancer in Pedigree Dogs

Jane M. Dobson

Volume 2013 (2013), Article ID 941275, 23 pages

http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/941275

Dodson's data crunching lead to the conclusion that somewhat over half of all flatties die of cancer, putting the breed at #2 for cancer mortality after only the Portuguese water spaniel.

Histiocytic Sarcoma is particularly common, mostly affecting older dogs.

See also

Mortality in a cohort of flat-coated retrievers in the UK

J. Dobson*, T. Hoather, T. J. McKinley andJ. L. N. Wood

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1476-5829.2009.00181.x/abstract;jsessionid=96EA63B5BA3B5944627A599240F7FB76.f03t02

Edited December 24, 2014 by sandgrubber

[YOLO]

Anyone know if Dancingate is still in business? Just curious as I haven't seen them advertising for a while?

[Salukifan]

Anyone know if Dancingate is still in business? Just curious as I haven't seen them advertising for a while?

I seem to recall the breeder resigned from Dogs WA before they could strike her off.

WA folk may know more.

ETA link to previous thread

Edited January 7, 2015 by Haredown Whippets

[melzawelza]

Don't get we wrong, I would never leave a child with ANY dog I didn't know and trust.

Unfortunately I have seen a poor flattie who had been abused and was quite psychotic. I put my hand through the mesh so he could sniff me, and he went nuts and BIT me. Fortunately being a flattie I escaped with only scratches.

This wasn't because of the breed of dog that bit you, it was because the dog had bite inhibition and/or only wanted to warn you to go away, not injure you. These things are due to training and the temperament of that individual dog, not because the dog has some kind of physically weak jaw because of its breed.

Small dogs can easily cause serious, lasting damage to people's hands - people losing fingers, permanent nerve damage etc. A dog the size of a Flatcoat can also do serious damage if it wants to. That dog chose not to injure you severely, it wasn't limited by its jaw.

Edited January 7, 2015 by melzawelza

[YOLO]

Don't get we wrong, I would never leave a child with ANY dog I didn't know and trust.

Unfortunately I have seen a poor flattie who had been abused and was quite psychotic. I put my hand through the mesh so he could sniff me, and he went nuts and BIT me. Fortunately being a flattie I escaped with only scratches.

This wasn't because of the breed of dog that bit you, it was because the dog had bite inhibition and/or only wanted to warn you to go away, not injure you. These things are due to training and the temperament of that individual dog, not because the dog has some kind of physically weak jaw because of its breed.

Small dogs can easily cause serious, lasting damage to people's hands - people losing fingers, permanent nerve damage etc. A dog the size of a Flatcoat can also do serious damage if it wants to. That dog chose not to injure you severely, it wasn't limited by its jaw.

You weren't there and you have no idea what you're talking about.

[melzawelza]

Don't get we wrong, I would never leave a child with ANY dog I didn't know and trust.

Unfortunately I have seen a poor flattie who had been abused and was quite psychotic. I put my hand through the mesh so he could sniff me, and he went nuts and BIT me. Fortunately being a flattie I escaped with only scratches.

This wasn't because of the breed of dog that bit you, it was because the dog had bite inhibition and/or only wanted to warn you to go away, not injure you. These things are due to training and the temperament of that individual dog, not because the dog has some kind of physically weak jaw because of its breed.

Small dogs can easily cause serious, lasting damage to people's hands - people losing fingers, permanent nerve damage etc. A dog the size of a Flatcoat can also do serious damage if it wants to. That dog chose not to injure you severely, it wasn't limited by its jaw.

You weren't there and you have no idea what you're talking about.

I didn't have to be there, it's absolutely ludicrous (and dangerous) to suggest that a medium sized dog is physically inapable of doing severe damage to a hand.

Edited January 8, 2015 by melzawelza