What Is Good And What Is Not?

[Seven]

Getting a pup in around 5 weeks and I have been doing alot of research on training etc.

My question is there is alot about crate training etc and it seems that to do it right alot of time is spent almost confined to quarters.

Is it ok to pen an area in the backyard for the pup as well and if out for a while to leave pup in this area. I am wanting an inside / outside dog and feel sorry for dogs that don't have alot of space etc.

Is it just while the dog is a pup that they should spend alot more time in a crate or a pen and at what age is a pup going to need more space.

Sorry just getting alot of different views and it does seem that if you cant watch your pup then it should be crated. My thoughts is if I made a pen in the backyard if needed it can spend time in there as well and only use the crate more so at night or while indoors.

But then at what age do you not keep the dog in a pen and let him have run of the backyard like majority of the uninformed pet owners out there that whinge about chewing problems etc.

Sorry for the rant and rave just dont want to be cruel to the pup by confining if not needed.

[nickojoy]

Chewing problems - don't leave anything around for the dog to chew - problem solved

Crates are for all size and all ages, not only a pup. As they grow up, they know the crate is their space, my dogs get fed in their crates and sleep in their crates, when they are naughty they get sent to their crates.

Why do you want to confine your pup to only one part of the yard?

[Seven]

Chewing problems - don't leave anything around for the dog to chew - problem solved

Crates are for all size and all ages, not only a pup. As they grow up, they know the crate is their space, my dogs get fed in their crates and sleep in their crates, when they are naughty they get sent to their crates.

Why do you want to confine your pup to only one part of the yard?

Only while a pup I guess and to stop chewing etc. As pup grows up then let have the whole yard on there own, but it seems that this is not always a good idea til they are a adult.

Re your question that is the confusing bit that we are reading about and was wondering when do you trust the dog with the whole yard.

[Czara]

Sorry for the rant and rave just dont want to be cruel to the pup by confining if not needed.

At the risk of getting slammed by all the regular bloggers, "crating" is a fairly recent fad. For thousands of years people have succesfully housetrained their dogs the traditional way, which is what I still do (very successfully without any dramas.) I think keeping a dog in a small cage is very cruel. My personal view. Obviously contary to many on these forums

[alpha bet]

Crating a pup is not an essential part of training. It is just an option.

I haven't ever bothered with crating a pup in the house but in saying that when i put any of the dogs on the back of the ute I put them in a crate and they seem happy to sit and wait. I find it easier as they have an area to lie down and if the weather is hot I can place a cover to protect the dog from the sun.

I do however find that a pen outside is very convenient. It is not a training tool just somewhere that becomes the dogs space. Dogs generally are happy to have pen time especially if they can still see what is going on.

It can be a great idea to invest in a pen for the long term. If you are renting you can purchase a temporary pen (available thru many of the stock/farm suppliers) that you can take with you when you move. A pen will always come in handy, a decent size is best (2m x 4m minimum I would recommend).

for example:

1. Loads of people coming around for bbq and pup gets in the way

2. Sometimes you have visitors who are bad mannered to the dog.

3. Tradesman working at your property going in and out - may leave gates open

4. Dog is now at the teenage stage and you have the washing on the line

5. You are going out and want to ensure dog is contained.

6. You have a bitch in season.

The good thing about Crating and Pens is that the dog learns patience. He learns that he must stay where you put him without complaining.

[Kavik]

In addition to alpha bet's reply crating is very useful for :

* Those of us competing with our dogs So you have somewhere safe to put your dog while setting up/taking down equipment or gazebos, or walking courses in agility etc.

* If your dog gets sick or injured and is not allowed to run around and has to be confined

[poodlefan]

Sorry for the rant and rave just dont want to be cruel to the pup by confining if not needed.

At the risk of getting slammed by all the regular bloggers, "crating" is a fairly recent fad. For thousands of years people have succesfully housetrained their dogs the traditional way, which is what I still do (very successfully without any dramas.) I think keeping a dog in a small cage is very cruel. My personal view. Obviously contary to many on these forums

The idea of crating as a training aid is not about "keeping your dog in a small cage". It's about providing a secure place for a pup to use as a den (hardly a new idea for dogs) and to provide a safe place for when a pup cannot be supervised. That's very useful in a house with children. It's also useful for establishing toilet training.

Most folk I know who use crates sleep their pups in one and feed it there as well. Sleeping and eating in a space trigger a dog's natural inhibtion not to eliminate there. It's that natural inhibition we can use to assist toilet training. Leave the dog in the crate too long and it will eliminate and lose the inhibtion. Crate training is not for the lazy or inattentive owner. When your pup stirs in the middle of the night you get up each and every time. It requires effort to do correctly. the crate must be where you can hear the pup and get up to take it out for toilet breaks. Add crate games to your use of the crate and you can have the basics of sit, wait and release established very quickly - a base line for teaching a pup focus and self control.

I agree that there is a line at which a crate DOES become a cage. Crates, like all training aids are a tool. There are always ways for any training tool to be abused but the tool itself is not at fault there.

If you want to show your dog, travel frequently or do dog sports, a dog that is accustomed and comfortable in a crate is a godsend. For others - its optional.

Either do it properly or don't do it all IMO My lastest pup slept in a crate and was fed in it. He went in there while I had a shower but otherwise he was not crated. He doesn't sleep in one now but I still feed him in there as he is a slow eater and the others would hassle him.

Edited September 6, 2009 by poodlefan

[raz]

At the risk of getting slammed by all the regular bloggers, "crating" is a fairly recent fad. For thousands of years people have succesfully housetrained their dogs the traditional way, which is what I still do (very successfully without any dramas.) I think keeping a dog in a small cage is very cruel. My personal view. Obviously contary to many on these forums

Deary me.

Crating is great, seven. It gives your pup a safe little 'den', a safety mechanism in the car and if ever he is injured and needs to be confined while he recovers, god forbid, -

you dont want to suddenly have to lock him in a crate at that point if he isnt used to it.

Goodluck with the new arrival.

Edited September 6, 2009 by raz

[persephone]

Hey, seven- I have never used a crate to train a pup... but I have done so with April, my piglet :D

She is now 4 mths old- and is toilet trained. She slept in the crate alongside my bed- if she squeaked, I'd take her outside...

Same in the Kitchen .When she was inside.. she was in the crate most of the time..and if she sqeaked- it was outside, toilet, and back in for a play/feed, then crate again.

No accidents on the floor... she is very happy to run into her crate/pen...and doesn't mind at all being on her own.

i know- not a dog.. but similar

IF I lived in a city again, and not in the bush... and had a puppy - a crate would definitely be on the list of must-haves.

When your pup is desexed...the crate means that there is no running around unsupervised

When you have to duck out in a hurry..pup goes in crate with a toy...safe and sound .

When you have kids to visit, and don't want pup to be overwhelmed/over excited..

pup goes in crate, and kids are taught that puppies NEED time alone- and the crate is a kid-free zone!!

I do not approve of leaving a pup crated for long periods while someone is at work.. that seems cruel.puppies need to run and explore and dig...

A secure, roofed, pen outside , with good shelter, is a great idea!

[Seven]

Thanks for all the replies

I have a crate and intend to use it pretty well the way people have said. Eg While pup is inside more so while I can't give all our attention. Dont want mistakes and don't think pup should be left unattended at such a young age.

However I plan to make a pen area outside for more while a pup and if we go out long periods, so the pup cant get hurt or into trouble. We have and area suitable around 6m x 4m that I intend converting.

Just wondering is it cruel while out that pup to even adult dog be left in a penned area like that for while say we are at work and then when home dog is out.

Eg I work fulltime and wife works maybe 4 hours or so 3 times a week in which time we were thinking a pen. Then when we are home pup would be with us and even at adult stage inside to a point. If we provided enough toys or a kong etc would the dog be ok and not bored etc.

Just thinking out loud that this would stop 90% of problems as the maximum time left alone would be about 4-5hours and then he would have normal walks n exercise.

Hope you don't mind stupid questions

[persephone]

I think a pen is a good idea. provided it is more than just netting/posts

the plan is to make a pen such that the pup has NO chance of escaping. At all. No way. That usually means floor/roof /walls sunk into the ground- whatever...

because......if pup does discover he can dig/chew/climb/barge out....just once....then NEXT time, he will try harder..and so on!

The pen also needs to be his favourite spot Nice bed, some shade, somewhere to dig- stuff to play with...

and , getting in early...

even at adult stage inside to a point.

a dog which sleeps inside, and is around its family often will usually be MUCH calmer, and will not tend to bark at night noises, annoy the neighbours, and invite nasty comments

[Czara]

Crating is great, seven. It gives your pup a safe little 'den',

Dens have opening, through which creatures can come out to stretch their legs or relieve themselves. Cages have bars - all locked, keeping them imprisoned. There is a difference

[huski]

Crating is great, seven. It gives your pup a safe little 'den',

Dens have opening, through which creatures can come out to stretch their legs or relieve themselves. Cages have bars - all locked, keeping them imprisoned. There is a difference

My crate has three flaps that open.

Doesn't look like much of prison to me

Poor beagle, forced to be imprisoned in her crate You can tell she doesn't enjoy it at all

That a crate may not LOOK like a den is not the point. How the dog sees the crate is the point. For my beagle, her crate is her safe place, where she eats and sleeps and goes when she wants to feel secure. If I need to keep her contained for short periods I can put her in there knowing she won't be stressed or in the way. Last night I broke a glass on the floor and put her in the crate while I cleaned it up, it meant she stayed out of the way and didn't walk on broken shards of glass.

If we ever go to training workshops, or in the future when we go to trials, having a crate trained dog means I can put her some where safe where she can relax because she loves her crate and is used to having it and seeing being in there as a positive thing. The vast majority of the time she goes into her crate, she does so out of her choosing.

Edited September 8, 2009 by huski

[Czara]

My crate has three flaps that open.

Doesn't look like much of prison to me

Yep, open flaps makes yours a den I guess ;)

[huski]

My crate has three flaps that open.

Doesn't look like much of prison to me

Yep, open flaps makes yours a den I guess

Like I said, what is important is how the dog sees the crate.

I can zip up the flaps and she's still happy and content in there, doing the flaps up doesn't change the fact that she loves being in her crate

[luvsdogs]

Tilba is the 1st dog I've used a crate for. It's great to use in the car & she travels well in it. I have also used it while we holiday, gives her somewhere familiar to sleep.

Young puppies can get into a lot of mischief while young, so a kennel run would be an ideal outside home while you're not home. I don't have one but I know a lot of breeders use them. As long as you introduce puppy to it gradually. If she's been in one at the breeders, that's a bonus.

[raz]

Ooh yes Daisy certainly looks unhappy while incarcerated, Huski

[poodlefan]

My crate has three flaps that open.

Doesn't look like much of prison to me

Yep, open flaps makes yours a den I guess

The crate in my lounge room has the door open unless Howard is being fed in it. My oldest boy (not crate trained as a pup) can often be found in there when younger visiting dogs are creating a ruckus. He clearly feels more secure in there.

All of my dogs will sleep in their crates at trials. Having a place where dogs will relax regardless of surroundings is wonderful - it means they stay fresher. It also means they are safe from fools who allow dogs to approach tethered dogs at trials - something I see all too frequently.

Edited September 9, 2009 by poodlefan

[Kavik]

poodlefan raises another reason I use a crate at trials. Kaos gets very excited when at trials - lots to look at, smell and do, and he knows he will be doing something fun. If he is in his crate he relaxes and remains fresher for his time in the ring, he has his down time in there. And he would not take kindly to a dog coming up to him if he was tethered.