German Shepherd Dog

[Heidii]

however many of the dogs fall over because they can't use their own back legs to hold them up.

I'd like to see you try and get a shepherd to fall over

[Rantino]

however many of the dogs fall over because they can't use their own back legs to hold them up.

I'd like to see you try and get a shepherd to fall over

I know of a few GSD owners that you might get to fall over without even trying.

[Flaves]

however many of the dogs fall over because they can't use their own back legs to hold them up.

I'd like to see you try and get a shepherd to fall over

I know of a few GSD owners that you might get to fall over without even trying.

:laugh: :laugh:

well we will give it a shot on sunday

[Boots42]

QUESTIONS:

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc)

My parents always had at least one german shep (and generally two, but sometimes the second dog has been "something else" - i.e. rottie/shep cross, dalmatian, etc), and I currently have an 8 y.o. GSD. So I'd say relatively experienced with companion GSDs.

2. Where and why was the breed first developed?

This has been covered well.

3. How common is it in Australia?

This has been covered well. Although I have had a few children shyly come up to me and ask if my boy is a wolf... so maybe not thaaaat common!

4. What is the average lifespan?

This has been covered but I am curious whether there's a different lifespan between working bred and show bred dogs.

5. What is the general temperament/personality?

Watchful, intelligent, expressive.

6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult?

Daily, mine has one-two short walks (i.e. "around the block") and one ramble that involves games or at least one or two bursts of sprinting) and this works for us. Others may need to run alongside a bicycle.

7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with?

If you choose a GSD aiming for a "middle pup" (i.e. not the first or last to greet you), getting a dog from 10+ weeks and from the start regularly take him for bathroom breaks outside (not giving him the chance to have an accident inside), not letting them go in front of you on walks/through doorways, taking it to puppy school than obedience training, regular walks and dog socialisation, keeping it mentally active with games (whether that's hide and seek for yourself or hiding food depending on the dog's motivations....).

So, yes, *if* the dog owner is prepared to learn and put into action a lot more than the average dog owner does.

8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods?

A well-adjusted, well-exercised GSD will most likely snooze and eat. A dog that does not have a clear leader/is not exercised/etc will bark, stress and go a little bonkers.

9. How much grooming is required?

Bah. I have a long-haired GSD. I can spend hours filling up bags and bags and bags with his hair.

10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)?

A young puppy - young adult (up to about 3, maybe even 4) would be unaware of their weight around small children/infirm people but GSDs definitely have an innate understanding that they need to be gentle around these kids/elderly/etc.

There's a particularly good nursing home in Adelaide that I was highly amused to find out that one of the managers has a well-trained GSD that roams the hallways during her shifts, saying hello to the patients and wandering in for pats!

11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of?

Has been discussed earlier.

12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be)

(Has been covered - hip dysplasia is probably no.1)

[angelsun]

however many of the dogs fall over because they can't use their own back legs to hold them up.

I'd like to see you try and get a shepherd to fall over

Yup...easy peasy....I've done specialties in the past.

[Flaves]

however many of the dogs fall over because they can't use their own back legs to hold them up.

I'd like to see you try and get a shepherd to fall over

Yup...easy peasy....I've done specialties in the past.

Just because a dog is in the specialty ring does not mean it will fall over

You exaggerate when you imply all specialty dogs are roached etc

They are not ALL like it, some are sure, but some all breeds gsds are not much better.

You dont like the shape of the specialty dog, and that is fine, some of us do, some of us dont like your style of gsd, but that is what makes the world go round and shows interesting.

however not many of the gsd people on DOL take every opportunity to continually denigrate your style of dog.

I dont like it myself, but you do and that is fine - it is a matter of each to their own

[Flaves]

As for the trotting arguement...there are many trotting breeds out there, but only the GSD is stacked three points. You can however stack a GSD four square like ALL the other breeds and still show the angulation that is required, however many of the dogs fall over because they can't use their own back legs to hold them up like is often the case with the pivot point stand.

:confused: i have not seen a dog fall over when stacked square, nor the 3 point stack.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Flaves

[Pockets]

I attended multiple shows in Albury last year, and Angelsun I believe you had a couple entered aswell, both my friend and myself show specialty where our dogs do quite well. Our dogs also did well in Albury taking out Best of Breed all 3 days at the April/May shows..Interstingly enough the only one I saw fall over was my other friend when he slipped on the corner I certainly did not see any of mine nor other peoples dogs falling over and I have never seen it in my life.

Later in the year we went to Albury again (Internation Judges weekend), this time I brought another of my bitches who is a beautiful example of the breed and well placed in the specialty ring, she took out 3 Best in Groups, 2 of those leading to Best in Show

I also know of others who attended Albury late this year and again were awarded Best of Breed and a Runner up Best In Group again a bitch that competes and shows well in the specialty ring.

I would be interested to know how you think these dogs are exaggerated/falling over and not correct examples of the breed?

[Flaves]

Well said Pockets

[angelsun]

some of us dont like your style of gsd,

GSD's have one standard of perfection...I"ve never seen in the written word, where it calls for a rise in the centre of the spine...unless this has been a recent addition promoted by the specialty clubs?

As for falling over...clearly you've not done or seen enough specialty events...it's sort of like tipping cows...fun but not very nice really. I"ll find some video of dogs that are so weak in the rear during a walk, they step on their hocks, wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble...these have gone on to win groups/bis etc....because few judges walk the dogs, or if they do, pay attention to the weakness.

Way back when.... showed a young dog with sickle hocks....he constantly stumbled during a walk. He could only be stacked a certain way or he would quite simply fall over. He won the group as an adult (still had these issues) and did very well in the puppy ring when younger. Sorry to disagree, but this happens a LOT....the only good thing about this boy was his exceptional head and that he did not have a roach in the spine.

[Scales of Justice]

wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble...these have gone on to win groups/bis etc....because few judges walk the dogs, or if they do, pay attention to the weakness.

There may be individual GSDs whose hocks wobble, but this is a long way from your statement about GSDs who simply cannot stand upright on their feet and fall over completely on the ground.

To continually focus in on the individuals in this breed that have loose hocks and then overlook the fact that there are many more individuals who are correct, it appears you have a beef about the breed for whatever reason and I don't believe this thread is the place to air it.

By the way, I'm sure we can all dig up the dirt on any breed with unflattering videos.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Scales of Justice

[Flaves]

some of us dont like your style of gsd,

GSD's have one standard of perfection...I"ve never seen in the written word, where it calls for a rise in the centre of the spine...unless this has been a recent addition promoted by the specialty clubs?

As for falling over...clearly you've not done or seen enough specialty events...it's sort of like tipping cows...fun but not very nice really. I"ll find some video of dogs that are so weak in the rear during a walk, they step on their hocks, wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble...these have gone on to win groups/bis etc....because few judges walk the dogs, or if they do, pay attention to the weakness.

Way back when.... showed a young dog with sickle hocks....he constantly stumbled during a walk. He could only be stacked a certain way or he would quite simply fall over. He won the group as an adult (still had these issues) and did very well in the puppy ring when younger. Sorry to disagree, but this happens a LOT....the only good thing about this boy was his exceptional head and that he did not have a roach in the spine.

That is correct.

However every single breeder/owner/exhibitor can and does interpret it differently.

I have not said i have done enough specialty shows, but in the last 4.5yrs at not 1 show have i seen a dog fall over because of its hind end. I have seen hockiness that has made me cringe, yes, but not one of those dogs have i seen fall over.

Have you been to any specialty shows recently? I havent seen you at any recently :) There is one at Ballarat next week, you should come and then you will be able to show me which dogs fall over because of their hind angulations or their roaches :)

You have also exaggerated what you have seen because you dont like 'specialty' style dogs. You prefer the 'old style' GSD, which is fine, you can prefer what you like, it is no skin off my nose, but until you can show me that more dogs than not fall over because of their hind angulation, well i dont put much credit in what you say.

And i agree with SoJ - you can find bad in any breed.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Flaves

[lovemesideways]

Can we keep the arguments for another thread please?

[Heidii]

German Shepherds Playing Proof they can stand on 4 feet!

[Heidii]

The 2011 German Seiger Show Open Dog Winner.

I dont see a "rise in the centre of the spine" as angelsun put it??? Check out the movement, doesn't look weak to me??? He didnt fall over either!

[Heidii]

GSD's have one standard of perfection...I"ve never seen in the written word, where it calls for a rise in the centre of the spine...unless this has been a recent addition promoted by the specialty clubs?

As for falling over...clearly you've not done or seen enough specialty events...it's sort of like tipping cows...fun but not very nice really. I"ll find some video of dogs that are so weak in the rear during a walk, they step on their hocks, wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble...these have gone on to win groups/bis etc....because few judges walk the dogs, or if they do, pay attention to the weakness.

Way back when.... showed a young dog with sickle hocks....he constantly stumbled during a walk. He could only be stacked a certain way or he would quite simply fall over. He won the group as an adult (still had these issues) and did very well in the puppy ring when younger. Sorry to disagree, but this happens a LOT....the only good thing about this boy was his exceptional head and that he did not have a roach in the spine.

I think what you need to realise Angelsun is these dogs you are talking about such as "a rise in the centre of the spine, weak in the rear, step on their hocks, wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble" are not what specialty breeders are aiming to breed. Like ALL dogs in the ring none are perfect and all have faults. Now take the German Pinscher for example. Their breed standard states that the forequarters should form an angle of approximately 45 degrees to the horizontal. I have had alook at a few Pincsher breeders webpages both here and overseas and nearly every photo shows dogs whom are practically straight in front with no angulation....it looks as though there forequarters are an extension of their ears....now I could go on about how cruel you Pinscher breeders are for breeding dogs with straight fronts but that would be just stupid now wouldn't it. I am not denying Shepherds need improvements in some areas but take a look at the German Seiger winner from 2011 and go onto the gsdcv website and you will see the top dogs that are winning are not weak in the rear, dont have a rise in the centre of the spine and dont wobble with great abandon! All you are doing is looking at the dogs at the end of the line and being a dramaqueen!

[Wuffies]

Long coats aren't bred for, they just happen. The parents must each carry the gene and then it's a crap shoot. Two years ago, we had a litter with 10 pups and 4 of them were longcoats. It's hard to see them til they are about 6 weeks of age or so, so people sit back and wait to see if they will get one.

Actually Angelsun most breeders can tell which ones are long coat before or by the time pups are two weeks of age and some can tell while pups are still wet.

[Tapferhund]

some of us dont like your style of gsd,

GSD's have one standard of perfection...I"ve never seen in the written word, where it calls for a rise in the centre of the spine...unless this has been a recent addition promoted by the specialty clubs?

As for falling over...clearly you've not done or seen enough specialty events...it's sort of like tipping cows...fun but not very nice really. I"ll find some video of dogs that are so weak in the rear during a walk, they step on their hocks, wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble...these have gone on to win groups/bis etc....because few judges walk the dogs, or if they do, pay attention to the weakness.

Way back when.... showed a young dog with sickle hocks....he constantly stumbled during a walk. He could only be stacked a certain way or he would quite simply fall over. He won the group as an adult (still had these issues) and did very well in the puppy ring when younger. Sorry to disagree, but this happens a LOT....the only good thing about this boy was his exceptional head and that he did not have a roach in the spine.

"Happens a LOT" ? Yeahhh right ;)

AngElsun, I think the E in your username stands for EXAGGERATE :laugh:

Seeing as your avatar is a German Pinscher.......I would assume YOU would be the one not attending EVERY GSD specialty show??? The others posting on here pretty much DO ....attend every specialty show there is....so I would imagine they know and see more in what's correct and not correct than you do when it comes to Shepherds. Yes, there are some not so good specimens of the breed...but that can be said of ANY breed including Pinschers . I am sure there are Pinschers out there being shown that have obvious faults...and I am sure there are judges that put them up over better dogs too. It might not happen overnight , but at least with our Shepherds, most specialist judges, along with most breeders , are aware of and recognize problems and set out to correct those problems .

Edited January 31, 2012 by Tapferhund

[Tapferhund]

GSD's have one standard of perfection...I"ve never seen in the written word, where it calls for a rise in the centre of the spine...unless this has been a recent addition promoted by the specialty clubs?

As for falling over...clearly you've not done or seen enough specialty events...it's sort of like tipping cows...fun but not very nice really. I"ll find some video of dogs that are so weak in the rear during a walk, they step on their hocks, wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble...these have gone on to win groups/bis etc....because few judges walk the dogs, or if they do, pay attention to the weakness.

Way back when.... showed a young dog with sickle hocks....he constantly stumbled during a walk. He could only be stacked a certain way or he would quite simply fall over. He won the group as an adult (still had these issues) and did very well in the puppy ring when younger. Sorry to disagree, but this happens a LOT....the only good thing about this boy was his exceptional head and that he did not have a roach in the spine.

I think what you need to realise Angelsun is these dogs you are talking about such as "a rise in the centre of the spine, weak in the rear, step on their hocks, wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble" are not what specialty breeders are aiming to breed. Like ALL dogs in the ring none are perfect and all have faults. Now take the German Pinscher for example. Their breed standard states that the forequarters should form an angle of approximately 45 degrees to the horizontal. I have had alook at a few Pincsher breeders webpages both here and overseas and nearly every photo shows dogs whom are practically straight in front with no angulation....it looks as though there forequarters are an extension of their ears....now I could go on about how cruel you Pinscher breeders are for breeding dogs with straight fronts but that would be just stupid now wouldn't it. I am not denying Shepherds need improvements in some areas but take a look at the German Seiger winner from 2011 and go onto the gsdcv website and you will see the top dogs that are winning are not weak in the rear, dont have a rise in the centre of the spine and dont wobble with great abandon! All you are doing is looking at the dogs at the end of the line and being a dramaqueen!

Spot On post !

[Pockets]

Angelsun you have yet to reply to my post.... ???

Your information is derived from a few individual animals you have seen god knows how long ago, this does not represent the entire breed. I doubt there is any breed in the Country that you could say are perfect reprentatives of their breed standard, after all the whole reason of breeding is to improve the breed :)