Oscar (AmBull) Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Oscar is now almost 6 months old and I am getting really frusterated because I can't walk him. He pulls constantly and I am now at the point where he is almost overpowering me. We have been doing obediance with a trained behaviourist who has been attempting to rectify this issue with us however so far we have had no luck. She recommended a 'Gentle Leader', we have now been trying to introduce this to him for 5 weeks and he absolutely hates it, even more now than when we first began. We haven't taken him on walks with it, just little ones around the house. The most he has ever had it on for is 5 minutes. She encouraged us to try and play games with him to get him used to it. We have tried this and he won't play at all. We give him high value treats and he still won't have a bar of it. He also has quite a short snout, he snores loudly when he sleeps and snorts when he has the gentle leader on. I am unsure if his breathing is being effected when he has the leader on or not. All I really want to do is be able to walk my puppy. If anyone has any other suggestions or products to try it is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 (edited) I'd suggest another trainer. This dog doesn't need games IMO, he needs effective discipline. In the meantime a Sporn or other brand "no pull" harness might assist you. Your boy clearly finds head halters highly aversive. He's only going to get stronger.. you really need a trainer who can get loose lead walking sorted but bear in mind that if he pulls unexpectantly at something, you'll need to be able to hold him. This boy is sounding like a candidate for a prong collar and a some advice from K9Force. There's an SA trainer a lot of people recommend.. hopefully his name will be mentioned here. Edited September 2, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar (AmBull) Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks for the suggestion. The games were suggested as something fun to do, like positive reinforcement while he had the gentle leader on. I was told that a harness may encourage him to pull more, so we haven't tried one yet. How does the Sporn work? We have tried the stop everytime he pulls method but he pulls from the start and doesn't look back at us to go again when we stop. He just stays forward ready to go again. I want to get this sorted as soon as possible, as we have tried for several months now with hardly any imporvement and he is getting stronger by the day. He is great in every other aspect, but the walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks for the suggestion. The games were suggested as something fun to do, like positive reinforcement while he had the gentle leader on. I was told that a harness may encourage him to pull more, so we haven't tried one yet. How does the Sporn work? We have tried the stop everytime he pulls method but he pulls from the start and doesn't look back at us to go again when we stop. He just stays forward ready to go again. I want to get this sorted as soon as possible, as we have tried for several months now with hardly any imporvement and he is getting stronger by the day. He is great in every other aspect, but the walking. The sporn is not a standard walking harness but has straps that go under the legs and tighten if the dog pulls... it's specifically designed to prevent pulling but a really motivated dog can pull on one. A really motivated dog can pull on anything though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Check chain ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar (AmBull) Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks so much again. I think the trainer you are refering to is Mark Singer? I would be interested in people's experiences with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks so much again. I think the trainer you are refering to is Mark Singer? I would be interested in people's experiences with him. Yes, that was him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar (AmBull) Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 I have never used a check chain before so I don't know how to use one properly, some people say they are terrible while others say a god send. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I have never used a check chain before so I don't know how to use one properly, some people say they are terrible while others say a god send. If used properly and it works for you, I'd say you're looking at the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 You need someone who knows how to use one properly to show you where to postion it ( make sure it's the right size and weight for the dog ), how to use it correctly ( the correct motions ) and also the timing. They need not be harsh or cruel and they should certainly not choke your dog. There is also plenty of opportunity to reward the pup when he gets it "right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Woofs Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Best thing I ever did was change to a check chain and just kept on constantly shoving treats in my boys mouth to keep his attention on me. I did this for 2 weeks and now he hardly needs any correction and only gets treats when there is a big distraction like a barking/passing dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melbomb Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks so much again. I think the trainer you are refering to is Mark Singer? I would be interested in people's experiences with him. Justice Shades has used Mark Singer. Her experience with him is in this thread -> http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...30&start=30 I think Cassie has also used Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 The games were suggested as something fun to do, like positive reinforcement while he had the gentle leader on. Dog trainers call it "classical conditioning" - making an association. You pair the GL with "good thing" so that he experiences those "good feelings" when wearing it. Does it work? Absolutely! But if your dog is so shut down while wearing the GL that you can't play the game it is pointless. I teach dogs to "put the GL on themselves". If you put the GL on them, even just for a short time, and they don't accept it willingly you're already on the back foot. You can condition them to wear the GL without complaining, but your job just got much harder. I was told that a harness may encourage him to pull more, so we haven't tried one yet. Harnesses are used by pulling dogs (sledding, weight pull etc) because they are comfortable to pull in and allow the dog to pull harder. They do not CAUSE pulling, per se. Some harnesses do, however, discourage pulling (to some extent). PF has mentioned the Sporn, there are also harnesses which attach at the front which give you some lever advantage. We have tried the stop everytime he pulls method but he pulls from the start and doesn't look back at us to go again when we stop. He just stays forward ready to go again. I like to use a clear target, a family member with food is good, and I back up the moment he starts to pull and keep backing up slowly. Reward "easing up" at first, he doesn't have to turn around, he just has to stop pulling. It takes good timing and a bit of finesse, and you have to be consistent with it pretty much for life. I too recommend that you see someone who can teach you the skills, whatever skills they teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBT Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 the only thing i have done to stop pulling was every time she pulled i would quickly turn in the opposite direction, after a few time they get the idea, and when you turn direction use a command like " NO PULLING" but make sure you keep walking in the direction that you turned for about 20 meters, then repeat until he learns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 the only thing i have done to stop pulling was every time she pulled i would quickly turn in the opposite direction,after a few time they get the idea, and when you turn direction use a command like " NO PULLING" but make sure you keep walking in the direction that you turned for about 20 meters, then repeat until he learns. where's the reward ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I would recommend you contact Steve from K9 Force (as poodlefan mentioned) and do a Long distance Module on Loose Leash Walking with him. Not expensive and very simple to follow. Lots of support and in no time you will have it down pat. Using his method it would really not matter what product you actually use on the dog. The method simply works and is easy to master. Works along the same lines as what APBT says, but goes into excellent specifics and explanations. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 highly recommend Mark Singer I would recommend you contact Steve from K9 Force (as poodlefan mentioned) and do a Long distance Module on Loose Leash Walking with him. why do long distance when hands on and practical training is available? I think your trainer is not the right one for you and your dog. Contact Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amstaffchick Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I have given u advice re this problem in the AST thread but its my opinion that a PRONG collar is not for you! They should only be used by ppl who know what they are doing and they certainly arnt for newbies.... Get a check chain and have a go at the advice i left on the ast thread....Stay away from harnesses ! They are not what an AST should be walked on and they allow a powerful dog even more power thew sporn ones have NO effect on an AST and they are certainly not something i wouldnt ever walk an AST on... You can use a halter with a check chain attacked as back up...( always have the back up as ive seen many dogs slip a halter! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 A leather martingale with a buckle that sits nice and high is my preference :D Combined with training of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBT Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 the only thing i have done to stop pulling was every time she pulled i would quickly turn in the opposite direction,after a few time they get the idea, and when you turn direction use a command like " NO PULLING" but make sure you keep walking in the direction that you turned for about 20 meters, then repeat until he learns. where's the reward ? i only ever rewarded when she walked without pulling on about two walks, i not going to reward every time, no need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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