Pack Behaviour Issue

[Tansy]

I have 8 dogs. 4 adult bitches, 2 adult dogs (9yrs and 2yrs) and a younger dog and bitch. This issue is with the two adult boys.

The older boy is desexed and has some serious health problems. The boys aren’t best friends, but I’ve not previously had any issues without some sort of provocation (such as bitches in season). In the last week the young dog has decided to challenge the older dog for his position in the pack. The older dog doesn’t seem to have a problem with that – he seems fine to let the younger dog take his position. The older dog now won’t make eye contact with the younger dog, and will walk the long way round the room to avoid the younger dog.

The problem is that the younger dog is not prepared to leave it at that, and continually wants to challenge the older dog, even though the older dog is being submissive to him. The older dog is miserable – he just wants some peace.

The younger dog is also a bit 'needy' and wants my attention a lot. It was suggested to me that I ignore him and not give him too much attention, but I think this is making the situation worse.

I’ve been keeping them separated – I have separate yards that I use when there are bitches in season. This works fine but is not a long term solution, as they are all house dogs. I’m planning on bringing them back together on leads and rewarding appropriate behaviour and addressing inappropriate behaviour with a verbal reprimand, and if it escalates the younger dog will be put in another room. Try again, and try and get further each time.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

[Nekhbet]

control your dogs. YOu are letting the pack run itself which will end up in that older dog hurt or a fight will break out. It is up to YOU to say what behaviors are acceptable. Yes OK the younger is the better of the two males, that is natural in a pack especially if the older is sicker. But you have let him become pushy, shown with him pushing you for attention. Put them all on the same routine, the same rules etc, and if one stuffs up everyone in the vecinity gets in trouble. Simple.

If he pushes to get attention, push him back and grrrr. He will, in all probability find the older dog and try and have a go, as dogs do when they think their high up and get told off. If he even looks at the other dog crooked just shout 'ARRGHHHH GRR NO'. If he doesnt stop grab him straightaway quietly and put him out of the room until he settles. Let them have their own beds, bowls etc and do not allow pushing off. If one tries to make the other move remove the bed. Dont tell the more dominant one off and make the lesser 'preferential' just remove the bed to show it's neither of their beds it's YOURS. Let them lay on the floor. That is how the dog brain works a little round about but it's resources, especially if you have entire cycling bitches in the house.

[jesomil]

The problem is that the younger dog is not prepared to leave it at that, and continually wants to challenge the older dog, even though the older dog is being submissive to him. The older dog is miserable – he just wants some peace.

Do you allow all this to happen?

I think you need to pop on your pack leaders hat and sort it out. The situation shouldnt be allowed to get to this level. You are the top dog here and you call the shots not the younger dog.

[Erny]

That your older boy has some "serious health issues" could be rendering himself a natural target to your other. In these cases your other dog could well be acting by raw instinct and the only way to safely manage it is to keep them both separated from each other.

That is IF the behaviour is being caused by that.

I've seen it before. Not often. But I've seen it.

One 'clue' that I have seen in each case I have witnessed is the way the 'aggressor' shows strong interest to and at the ill dog before it aggresses.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Erny

[corvus]

I don't know if this is remotely similar, but I have found in the past with one dog that if she felt frustrated she'd immediately turn to the submissive dog and have a go at him no matter where he was or what he was doing. It was rewarding for her because it served as a release for the sense of frustration and the other dog was a safe target because he would just lie down and look submissive. There were subtleties to this behaviour that took me a long time to notice. Sometimes her frustration seemed to be because she was not getting enough one-on-one time with me, which was important to her and something she was used to getting. It would present as generally decreased tolerance of the other dog. If I quietly let her spend more time very close to me, the tolerance for the other dog would increase. It's a tricky one because you don't want to let them dictate to you the terms of their relationship with you and other dogs, but at the same time, it's really hard IME to stop bullying. It's hard because it's rewarding for the dog that bullies and you can't make a submissive dog stand up for itself. You have to punish or interrupt before the bully engages in bullying behaviour. You have to get him when he's thinking about doing it. I found that next to impossible in my situation. It was much easier to try to figure out how to improve the bully's tolerance of frustration, and anticipating when it would be inevitable and making sure the dog was physically incapable of going for the submissive dog (barriers).