Bite Inhibition.

[luffy4688]

Hi!

I currently have a 9 week old puppy Bailey. I would like to understand more about bite inhibition. He tends to bite quite a bit when he's playing or excited.

My question is. Do I correct him only when the bite stings or there is a slightest bit of pain or do i correct him whenever he bites, no matter it hurts or not? Am I suppose to be training him to bite softly or not to bite at all?

Thank you all in advance.

Regards,

Ryan.

Edited August 29, 2009 by luffy4688

[Luke W]

Hi!

I currently have a 9 week old puppy Bailey. I would like to understand more about bite inhibition. He tends to bite quite a bit when he's playing or excited.

My question is. Do I correct him only when the bite stings or there is a slightest bit of pain or do i correct him whenever he bites, no matter it hurts or not? Am I suppose to be training him to bite softly or not to bite at all?

Thank you all in advance.

Regards,

Ryan.

Dunbar says you gradually reduce the acceptable threshhold to teach a 'soft mouth'

This means - discouraging the puppy from nipping hard at first, then reducing the level which the dog is allowed to bite. Eventually, the dog will just 'mouth' and not bite or nip.

By the way - a 'correction' should only be a 'yelp' from you or disengaging from the pup. No loud, harsh words and certainly no physical admonishment. IMO.

Before and After You Get Your Puppy:

http://www.siriuspup.com/pdfs/BEFOREphotos.pdf

http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/AFTER%20...our%20Puppy.pdf

Edited August 29, 2009 by Luke W

[Trojanowski]

L

Edited August 11, 2010 by Trojanowski

[persephone]

Hi- In our household- there is NO teeth on humans at all.

puppies are 'gruffed' at,and moved aside (usually by the scruff) if they try it....bearing in mind most of ours are born here- so we can train them from the word 'go'

here-have a read http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/puppybiting.htmI don't believe that a well timed and carefully carried out physical correction..like a quick scruff grab ,will automatically cause an escalation.with our pups, I have never found it to do so.A scruff grab or nose tap or other procedure carried out without the skill/knowledge needed may well do so!Any correction, or for that matter,reward, must be timed to perfection to be effective!!

Edited August 29, 2009 by persephone

[luffy4688]

Hi- In our household- there is NO teeth on humans at all.

puppies are 'gruffed' at,and moved aside (usually by the scruff) if they try it....bearing in mind most of ours are born here- so we can train them from the word 'go'

here-have a read http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/puppybiting.htmI don't believe that a well timed and carefully carried out physical correction..like a quick scruff grab ,will automatically cause an escalation.with our pups, I have never found it to do so.A scruff grab or nose tap or other procedure carried out without the skill/knowledge needed may well do so!Any correction, or for that matter,reward, must be timed to perfection to be effective!! ;)

Thanks for the replies. Keep them coming! He seems fine when he's calm. Just that he has a tendancy to nip quite hard on our heels when he's running about, excited. He's a herding breed, so could this be his herding insticts? Or is that too young for a 9 week old pup?

I've been trying the 'ouch', then ignore for 15-30 seconds before continuing like normal. He tends to jump on me playfully when I ignore him and sometimes continue biting. Any ideas how to counter that? He's going to puppy school next Saturday. The trainer has been over to teach us some basics which has been working great. Biting inhibition seems to be the only thing that's taking longer. I know it can take quite a while to get the idea to him, just want to know if I'm on the right track.

[Cosmolo]

I would stop any mouthing on you (especially because the dog is likely to be in drive) and 20-30 seconds later redirect to a toy. Dogs need to learn bite inhibition but they don't need to learn bite inhibition by mouthing people in my opinion. Well timed correction, settle the pup and redirect a little later

[Aidan]

I've been trying the 'ouch', then ignore for 15-30 seconds before continuing like normal. He tends to jump on me playfully when I ignore him and sometimes continue biting. Any ideas how to counter that?

Leave the room and shut the door behind you.

[luvsdogs]

Your puppy is still young & you will find the time lines suggested by Dunbar in bold type.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/teach...ibitionTeaching Bite Inhibition

Please read this section extremely carefully. I shall repeat over and over: teaching bite inhibition is the most important aspect of your puppy's entire education.

Certainly puppy biting behavior must eventually be eliminated. We cannot have an adult dog playfully mauling family, friends, and strangers in the manner of a young puppy. However, it is essential that this be done gradually and progressively via a systematic two-step process: first, to inhibit the force of puppy bites and second, to lessen the frequency of puppy mouthing.

Ideally, the two phases should be taught in sequence, but with more active puppy biters you may wish to work on both stages at the same time. In either case, you must teach your puppy to bite or mouth gently before puppy biting behavior is eliminated altogether

Inhibiting the Force of Bites

The first step is to stop your puppy from hurting people: to teach him to inhibit the force of his play-bites. Physical punishments are certainly not called for. But it is essential to let your puppy know that bites can hurt. A simple "Ouch!" is usually sufficient. When the puppy backs off, take a short time-out to "lick your wounds," instruct your pup to come, sit, and lie down to apologize and make up and then, resume playing. If your puppy does not respond to your yelp by easing up or backing off, an effective technique is to call the puppy a "Bully!" and then leave the room and shut the door. Allow the pup a minute or two time-out to reflect on the association between his painful bite and the immediate departure of his favorite human playmate. Then return to make up. It is important to show that you still love your puppy, only that his painful bites are objectionable. Have your pup come and sit and then resume playing once more.

It is much better for you to walk away from the pup than to physically restrain him or remove him to his confinement area at a time when he is biting too hard. So make a habit of playing with your puppy in his long-term confinement area. This technique is remarkably effective with lead-headed dogs, since it is precisely the way puppies learn to inhibit the force of their bites when playing with each other. If one puppy bites another too hard, the bitee yelps and playing is postponed while he licks his wounds. The biter soon learns that hard bites interrupt an otherwise enjoyable play session. He learns to bite more softly once play resumes.

The next step is to eliminate bite pressure entirely, even though the "bites" no longer hurt. While your puppy is chewing his human chewtoy, wait for a bite that is harder than the rest and respond as if it really hurt, even though it didn't: "Ouch, you worm! Gennntly! That really hurt me, you bully!" Your puppy begins to think, "Good Heavens! These humans are soooooo sensitive. I'll have to be really careful when mouthing their delicate skin." And that's precisely what you want your pup to think: that he needs to be extremely careful and gentle when playing with people.

Your pup should learn not to hurt people well before he is three months old. Ideally, by the time he is four-and-a-half months old — before he develops strong jaws and adult canine teeth — he should no longer be exerting any pressure when mouthing.

Decreasing the Frequency of Mouthing

Once your puppy has been taught to mouth gently, it is time to reduce the frequency of mouthing. Your pup must learn that mouthing is okay, but he must stop when requested. Why? Because it is inconvenient to drink a cup of tea or to answer the telephone with fifty pounds of wriggling pup dangling from your wrist. That's why.

It is better to first teach "Off" using food as both a distraction and a reward. The deal is this: once I say "Off," if you don't touch the food treat in my hand for just one second, I'll say, "Take it" and you can have it. Once your pup has mastered this simple task, up the ante to two or three seconds of non-contact, and then to five, eight, twelve, twenty, and so on. Count out the seconds and praise the dog with each second: "Good dog one, good dog two, good dog three," and so forth. If the pup touches the treat before you are ready to give it, simply start the count from zero again. Your pup quickly learns that once you say "Off," he can not have the treat until he has not touched it, for, say, eight seconds, so the quickest way to get the treat is not to touch it for the first eight seconds. In addition, regular hand-feeding during this exercise encourages your pup's soft mouth.

Once your pup understands the "Off" request, use food as a lure and a reward to teach it to let go when mouthing. Say, "Off" and waggle some food as a lure to entice your pup to let go and sit. Then praise the pup and give the food as a reward when he does so.

The main point of this exercise is to practice stopping the pup from mouthing, and so each time your puppy obediently ceases and desists, resume playing once more. Stop and start the session many times over. Also, since the puppy wants to mouth, the best reward for stopping mouthing is to allow him to mouth again. When you decide to stop the mouthing session altogether, say, "Off" and then offer your puppy a Kong stuffed with kibble.

If ever your pup refuses to release your hand when requested, say, "Bully!" rapidly extricate your hand from his mouth, and storm out of the room mumbling, "Right. That's done it! You've ruined it! Finished! Over! No more!" and shut the door in his face. Give the pup a couple of minutes on his own to reflect on his loss and then go back to call him to come and sit and make up before continuing the mouthing game.

By the time your pup is five months old, he must have a mouth as soft and reliable as a fourteen-year-old working Labrador Retriever: your puppy should never initiate mouthing unless requested; he should never exert any pressure when mouthing; and he should stop mouthing and calm down immediately upon request by any family member.

Whether or not you allow your adult dog to mouth on request is up to you. For most owners, I recommend that they teach their dog to discontinue mouthing people altogether by the time he is six to eight months old. However, it is essential to continue bite inhibition exercises. Otherwise, your dog's bite will begin to drift and become harder as he grows older. It is important to regularly handfeed your dog and clean his teeth each day, since these exercises involve a human hand in his mouth.

For owners who have good control over their dog, there is no better way to maintain the dog's soft mouth than by regular play-fighting. However, to prevent your puppy from getting out of control and to fully realize the many benefits of play-fighting, you must play by the rules and teach your dog to play by the rules.

Play-fighting teaches your puppy to mouth only hands, which are extremely sensitive to pressure, but never clothing. Shoelaces, ties, trousers, and hair have no nerves and cannot feel. Therefore you cannot provide the necessary feedback when your pup begins to mouth too hard and too close to your skin. The play-fighting game also teaches your dog that he must adhere to rules regarding his jaws, regardless of how worked up he may be. Basically, play-fighting gives you the opportunity to practice controlling your puppy when he is excited. It is important to establish such control in a structured setting before real-life situations occur.

Adapted from AFTER You Get Your Puppy by Dr. Ian Dunbar

[Nekhbet]

I recommend that they teach their dog to discontinue mouthing people altogether by the time he is six to eight months old. However, it is essential to continue bite inhibition exercises.

IMO a dog should stop mouting in a couple of weeks not in a few months.

I dont like graduation for the average dog owner it introduces too many grey areas.

no mouthing is acceptable EVER. Simple, clear and easy for the dog to remember. If a pup ever tried to even put its teeth on me it was growled at and GRRR NO, if it ignored and bit/nipped it was scruffed and growled at then ignored.

It's something you nip in the bud quickly, not over a period of time. By 6 months most people are tearing their hair out at the fact the dog is STILL exhibiting the behaviors. It can stop quickly and it wont traumatise your dog. In fact it is better earlier as you are instilling RIGHT behaviors during the pups critical learning period, before 14/16 weeks of age.

[persephone]

no mouthing is acceptable EVER. Simple, clear and easy for the dog to remember. If a pup ever tried to even put its teeth on me it was growled at and GRRR NO, if it ignored and bit/nipped it was scruffed and growled at then ignored.

I agree totally.

With our pups- they may try it when several weeks old- they are stopped and corrected quickly and effectively- usually only takes a couple of corrections/redirects.

Gosh- if a nursing bitch taught HER pups to at first bite , then bite softer, then mouth, then stop.......... she would be nibbled raw

She tells them off loudly and with enough "oomph" to make them stop & think..... and they just don't do it again.They have respect...they learn quickly!

[Cosmolo]

I'm with Nekhbet on this one. 2 of my dogs have incredibly soft mouths with amazing bite inhibition and they were never allowed to mouth people. I think its confusing for the dog and owner and the potential for their to be issues increased when a dog is still allowed to mouth at 5, 6, 7 months of age. I think its particularly important for working breed dogs to learn not to mouth as they're usually in drive when they're doing it so the behaviour is always potently rewarded.

[Kelpie-i]

I'm with Cosmolo and Nekhbet here. No teeth on skin...ever! This is a strict rule which all my dogs have learned when they were puppies.

Personally I think the yelling "ouch" technique is too slow and I have seen people (young kids) try to do it and the pup just goes in harder as he thinks its a game. Nothing wrong with a quick correction even by way of squirt from a water bottle to stop the behaviour dead in its tracks.

[Nekhbet]

For owners who have good control over their dog, there is no better way to maintain the dog's soft mouth than by regular play-fighting. However, to prevent your puppy from getting out of control and to fully realize the many benefits of play-fighting, you must play by the rules and teach your dog to play by the rules.

Play-fighting teaches your puppy to mouth only hands, which are extremely sensitive to pressure, but never clothing. Shoelaces, ties, trousers, and hair have no nerves and cannot feel. Therefore you cannot provide the necessary feedback when your pup begins to mouth too hard and too close to your skin. The play-fighting game also teaches your dog that he must adhere to rules regarding his jaws, regardless of how worked up he may be. Basically, play-fighting gives you the opportunity to practice controlling your puppy when he is excited. It is important to establish such control in a structured setting before real-life situations occur.

OK I just read this bit properly. What was he thinking when he wrote this? Yeah fabulous idea. We are not dogs, we are people. It only takes once for the dog to become over excited and bite you hard.

Grey areas in dog training are a no go. There is no maybe, there is yes or no.

Think of it this way, if you don't think a behavior will be particularly 'cute', 'funny' or 'painless' when in a few months it escalates in size and intensity you nip in in the bud IMMEDIATELY. Instead of then letting a list of complaints grow and trying to break bad habits you could extinguish before they even come to be.

[Rusky]

how do you know your dog has bite inhibition if it has never been tested? If a dog is taught bite inhibition as per Dunbar then if your dog becomes lost and threatened or injured or afraid and it has not been taught the power of jaws on human flesh it won't know how much pressure to use. it will use the same pressure it needs to tell another dog 'leave me alone' .

[Nekhbet]

If a dog is taught bite inhibition as per Dunbar then if your dog becomes lost and threatened or injured or afraid and it has not been taught the power of jaws on human flesh it won't know how much pressure to use. it will use the same pressure it needs to tell another dog 'leave me alone' .

sorry but I dont agree. If a dog is injured or frightened sometimes no matter what the training it will bite you and hard.

I know my dogs have bite inhibition, I trained them myself. It has been tested as my rottie, although in a lot of pain, warned but did not dare bite a veterinarian. He knows its not allowed. So no, I dont agree with dunbar.

As I said dogs dont think in degrees, they think yes or no.

[luffy4688]

Hi, thanks for all the responses and advices. We have already decided that mouthing on humans will not be allowed and will be working on correcting him. Will keep you guys updated on how it goes.

[princesszelda]

Would love to hear how it goes....we are having the same issue with our 9-week old Bernese!

[Rusky]

If a dog is injured or frightened sometimes no matter what the training it will bite you and hard

that means the dog has not been taught bite inhibition which is what i was was trying to say. There is a massive difference in the power of the bite if the dog has been taught bite inhibition.

Our skin is much more sensitive than a dogs which is the reason babies are born without teeth. Puppies teeth are razor sharp. I haven't read all of luvs dogs Dunbar article here today but the only reason a puppy has sharp teeth is becasue they hurt. They learn from play how much pressure to apply whilst with their mum and their litter mates. They may well have good dog bite inhibition but if they lack socialisation in the first 8 weeks with people...and many many puppies do they will hurt if they bite. Ian Dunbars research has shown that teaching bite inhibition with humans significantly reduces bite injury.

One thing he states which really pees him off is dogs PTS in shelters who lunge, bite. don't break skin...they are the good guys who do gummy warnings.

His articles about bite inhibition are very interesting and his lectures even better. His own dog who he puts his hand in the mouth was a very people aggressive dog who bit badly, he rescued the dog and did masses of work, the dog is now well socialised, still mouthes ( he explains is is most definitely harder the older they get) but he works regularly with the dog encouraging mouthing and correcting.

I particularly liked his no sensation, no mouthing around humans. The outcome for a puppy should be no touching the body or clothing or shoes or anything around humans. I think the article though it is good is missing heaps of his teaching and reasoning.

I didn't always think this way but when stuff makes sense and the reasoning behind it I read and learn as much as I can till I an convinced. There really is only a subtle difference in the training.

The objective is that if a dog is forced to bite it won't leave any marks.

[Nekhbet]

baby puppies also dont have teeth either. The reason we and they grow teeth is to start eating solids.

the only reason a puppy has sharp teeth is becasue they hurt.

Where did this pearl of wisdom come from? Some tiny breeds barely grow teeth until later then larger breeds. So what, they dont need BI? Pups teeth are baby teeth, they need to be sharp (like our own baby teeth) to poke through the gum and allow the pup to EAT. In the wild they would be eating regurgitated meat and gnawing on left overs from the adults and hence would wear those points a bit faster then we have them when on sloppy puppy foods.

that means the dog has not been taught bite inhibition which is what i was was trying to say.

The objective is that if a dog is forced to bite it won't leave any marks.

A dog is a dog is a dog. If it is put in an extreme situation it will behave as an animal will - unpredictable. It may be nice or it may be in so much pain it bites the person.

Bite inhibition is not the only thing that will dictate the power of a bite. A dogs nerve, drive, previous training (and I'm not talking bite inhibition) and personality will. A hard, dominant, massive male allowed to mouth people? Get ready for shreds to be taken off if he's cornered.

Again this has nothing to do with allowing your dog to bite you. It's a rediculous concept. Especially his 'human aggressive' dog ...

His own dog who he puts his hand in the mouth was a very people aggressive dog who bit badly, he rescued the dog and did masses of work, the dog is now well socialised, still mouthes ( he explains is is most definitely harder the older they get) but he works regularly with the dog encouraging mouthing and correcting.

Sorry I really cannot take this seriously. I had a severely human aggressive dog given to me once and there was no way she was allowed to think about mouthing me let alone doing it. She learned very quickly and in the FIRST DAY that rule was learned. She went on to never even try again. So to ENCOURAGE a dog to mouth IMO is 1) negligent especially to the average dog owner and 2) very very silly.

I read and learn as much as I can till I an convinced

you dont have to agree with everything. Feel free to disagree sometimes with someone instead of convincing yourself they are right. Pieces of paper on a wall, books, tv shows etc etc does not make someone a logical, followable human.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Nekhbet

[persephone]

Is bite inhibition training so good that it overrides the instinctual bite from an animal in agony, or one who is in fear of its life?

serious question....

I have never studied bite inhibition as such.. if a puppy(usually a few weeks old) nips-..... it gets scruffed and gruffed at... and that is usually the end of teeth on humans.Full stop.

I still expect them to try and bite if they are injured or very fearful.... and approach them accordingly..I don't think I would trust ANY dog to remember to be soft mouthed in a very stressful/painful situation ....

So do/can they?