GeckoTree Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Theres a bloke up the road who has an old dog and I talk to him fairly regular, he has an old dog with a golf ball size tumor near its armpit, well its grown huge all of a sudden and in 3 days has grown nearly another half golf ball in size and it's now rock hard. He says its a mast cell tumor and that the vet said for a dog at that age its very limited survival, trhe dog isnt it any pain is happy, eating well, plays and still enjoys life. I suggested he go and get it cut out anyway, but then he said if he does that he may as well put the old boy down as its quality of life wont be worth living having to put the old boy through chemo after surgery. What would you do in this situation? would it be right to let the dog go as long as he can untill he becomes uncomfortable then PTS or try for surgery and treatments, remember this is an old dog and at its end according to its breed standards its a very large dog. It made me think after he said about it affecting the dogs quality of life, that my initial responce of suggesting he get it cut out was really wrong. Edited August 25, 2009 by GeckoTree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I think if it were me, I'd leave the dog alone, it's happy for the moment. It's an old dog as it is. I personaly wouldn't put a dog through Chemo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsur Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 We recently had exactly the same thing happen on our old rescue bitsa. She is almost 12 years old. It came up within a few days and was in between a golf ball size and tennis ball size. Unfortunately hers was quite soft and so it did need something doing. We had it removed and the vet said it wasn't attached to any bone etc. He said no point doing chemo at this age which we wouldn't have put her through anyway. This was about a month or so ago and she's perfectly happy running around and has a new lease on life again. If it comes back again we may have to reconsider but at the moment she is very happy and has benefited from the $270 surgery. Definitely worth it. If she had had a poor heart or anything like that though I would have thought long and hard but the vet said she was very fit otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 It is not simply a matter of cutting out a lump, with cancer a large margin would also need to be taken from around the growth. That may not be possible in that position on the dog. My old girl has been battling cancer for three years now. She is on chemo, and it doesn't worry her. Dog chemo does not have the same sort of effect as human chemo. The dog turns 13 next month and she still likes to run and play and is very happy. She has had several surgeries, one of them very large. She still has cancer and her quality of life is great for an old dog. If I had not have gone with any treatment options, she wouldn't have lasted six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 The kindest thing is to let the dog be - it is old and the trauma of surgery and chemo would probably kill it. I hope your suggestion has not made the owner question his care of his dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoTree Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 I will be talking to him again tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) For me, whenever it comes to decisions regarding treatment or surgery for my dogs I weight up everything... age of the dog, prognosis post treatment/surgery, quality of life etc. In my opinion, if this was my dog, I would be doing what the guys is doing, letting the dog enjoy himself whilst he is feeling well and happy, and when such time comes as the dogs goes down hill, look at when the right time to euth is. It is never easy, but quality of life is very important to me. I do totally understand that everyone has their own thoughts and feelings on these topicas, and rightly so. We are all different and that is terrific and what makes the world go around. My husband tends to be the type to feel more like treating anything at any cost in any situation, if there is a possible glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel. He and I differ here a bit. But we always seem to manage to get ourselves on the same page when the crunch comes. I feel it a privilege and responsibility that we as humans can make these decisions for our pets, that we are more limited with when it comes to ourselves and human life. We have to live with our decisions also, so it is important that as people we spend time learning about how we feel in these situations, so when we are called upon to make choices in these situations, that we can do so and be comfortable with whatever we decide upon. I am in that place now, and feel good about decisions I make regarding my pets receiving treatment/surgery for illness and comfortable with it. And I also would not judge anyone else for their own decisions, unless of course cruelty became obviously involved. Having said this I did treat one of my dogs with IMT last year, as she was young and vibrant, and I felt we could get her through it. We did, and she is still with us now. A Very expensive exercise and I would do it all again had I had my time again also. Edited August 25, 2009 by dyzney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) My Sally (she's 11 and I rescued her from the pound age 10) has a large (and harmless) lump on her back leg, it's not bothering her at all. It is unsightly and people regularly stop and ask me about it. Even if I wanted to remove it I can't - she has a high liver reading and can't have anaesthetic of any kind, safely. But she lives a very happy life, I look at the quality of her life, not a painless lump on her rear leg. She had it when I adopted her but I didn't care, I love dogs enough to look past their defects but honestly, that seems to be very rare with people, they are frequently very judgmental and critical. I also have several dogs, people think that's terrible or weird or both but they are all loved and looked after, they love each other as well. There are so many out there who can't even look after 1 dog and yet these same people probably go to church at the weekend and would see nothing wrong in condemning me!! Edited August 25, 2009 by dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 If clear margins are gained with MCT I don't think that chemo is necessary. Or am I totally incorrect. I supposed you would have to weigh up the risk of the GA and the shock of surgery and how long the surgery might prolong the dogs life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 If clear margins are gained with MCT I don't think that chemo is necessary. Or am I totally incorrect.I supposed you would have to weigh up the risk of the GA and the shock of surgery and how long the surgery might prolong the dogs life. Yes, if clear margins are gained. With my dog we thought we had that, but found out six months later that we didn't, and that is when we started the chemo. GeckoTree I wouldn't be discussing this with him any further. The man made the decision when the cancer was diagnosed not to treat it, so it will be even harder to treat now that it has grown. Keep in mind that lots of people make a financial decision not to treat and may not like being asked about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky_Mel Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 My last girl had something similar when she was 13yrs old and we decided if she wasn´t in pain, still eating etc we would let her be and we had her till she was almost 14. She was a gorgeous big baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) It is not simply a matter of cutting out a lump, with cancer a large margin would also need to be taken from around the growth. That may not be possible in that position on the dog.My old girl has been battling cancer for three years now. She is on chemo, and it doesn't worry her. Dog chemo does not have the same sort of effect as human chemo. The dog turns 13 next month and she still likes to run and play and is very happy. She has had several surgeries, one of them very large. She still has cancer and her quality of life is great for an old dog. If I had not have gone with any treatment options, she wouldn't have lasted six months. Your experience of canine chemo and mine are very different. I'm pleased your girl handles it ok. Edited August 26, 2009 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I understand that there are different types of chemo. My girl is on metronomic doses, which may be different from other chemotherapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Theres a bloke up the road who has an old dog and I talk to him fairly regular, he has an old dog with a golf ball size tumor near its armpit, well its grown huge all of a sudden and in 3 days has grown nearly another half golf ball in size and it's now rock hard.He says its a mast cell tumor and that the vet said for a dog at that age its very limited survival, trhe dog isnt it any pain is happy, eating well, plays and still enjoys life. I suggested he go and get it cut out anyway, but then he said if he does that he may as well put the old boy down as its quality of life wont be worth living having to put the old boy through chemo after surgery. What would you do in this situation? would it be right to let the dog go as long as he can untill he becomes uncomfortable then PTS or try for surgery and treatments, remember this is an old dog and at its end according to its breed standards its a very large dog. It made me think after he said about it affecting the dogs quality of life, that my initial responce of suggesting he get it cut out was really wrong. I have a 12 year old dog here with MCT and to be honest what the vet said is wrong IMO.. It all depends on what grade the tumour is and if it has become systemic. Also 12 is old but not to old for surgery if the dog is otherwise well. My boy just had a toe removed due to another type of cancer. MCT is not a death sentence either - if treated then the outlook can be very good. Our lad had surgery, then chemo and has been treated holistically and was originally given 12-18 months. It is nearly 4 years now since he was dxd... Peronally I would be having a needle aspirate to confirm what the vet believes it is and then I would have it removed - if the dog is otherwise well. If the dog is not that well, then I would be looking at some holistic therapy to keep it as well as can be until the time comes. Also MCT releases histamine into the system - it is a good idea to at least treat the poor dog with some antihistamines every day. We just buy polaramine from the chemist and he has one each night. If the dog is no commercial dog food, change it (slowly over a week or two) to fresh food to remove the cereals, starches and grains from the diet (these types of carbs actually feed cancer). Best of luck - I am more than happy to offer more advice if needed (we have been fighting this disease for 4 years). Ollie actually has a thread in the palliative care section at the top here in the health forum - it is our whole journey so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 It is not simply a matter of cutting out a lump, with cancer a large margin would also need to be taken from around the growth. That may not be possible in that position on the dog.My old girl has been battling cancer for three years now. She is on chemo, and it doesn't worry her. Dog chemo does not have the same sort of effect as human chemo. The dog turns 13 next month and she still likes to run and play and is very happy. She has had several surgeries, one of them very large. She still has cancer and her quality of life is great for an old dog. If I had not have gone with any treatment options, she wouldn't have lasted six months. I agree with GM here... Chemo is not given in the doses to dogs that doctors give it to humans due to the fact that we can't give dogs bone marrow transplants (well actually I did see a story on the first dog bone marrow transplant last week somehwere but hey, it would be very expensive). So chemo is given to dogs in much lower doses and is wholly for prolonging life and putting the dog into remission (hopefully). Ollie had chemo for 6 months and it was not what I expected at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottifan Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Hi there, I would definitely try something which I have heard and witnessed others using with great results and in some cases complete success. Its a natural product humans use called MMS Miracle Mineral Solution. Tastes horrible when mixed with water but you can get a purified grape juice from health food shop with no added citric acid which will help when you syringe it to your dog, tastes much better! Google The MMS Experience - there's a distributor at lutwyche in brisbane or you can buy it online or at some health food shops - lots to read about it on the internet. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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