rajacadoo Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) Just hoping that someone may have some experience with correcting this... I have a 10 1/2 month old ACD who has quite a significant east/west front. I am showing this boy, and I would like to correct this as soon as posible, obviously as much as is possible... It has only become a problem in the last 6-8 weeks, too. It has been mentioned to me that fresh orange juice could possibly help, so I am giving him half a squeezed orange am amd pm, and finally he is starting to accept this on his meals !!! Then it was mentioned, by someone else, that in order for the Vit C in the OJ to work, I will need to supplement him with some Calcium. I am NOT at all happy with adding Calcium, as I have caused problems to my dogs in the past with over supplementation of Calcium, and Im really reluctant to go anywhere near it... I guess my questions are... Do I need the Calcium added to his diet to help him absorb the Vit C ??? If it is needed, can I use chicken necks, not the bought synthetic stuff, and how many per day for him ??? Finally, does anyone else have any ideas on how to improve this east/west problem ??? It was also mentioned to me that gentle road work may help, but then, others have said he is too young for roadwork at this stage ??? Edited August 24, 2009 by rajacadoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 In most cases it is a growth spurt although 10 ½ mths is late for that. I have just been through it with my 5mth old puppy. I cut back on his weight, added chicken wings to one meal a day and added a complete egg 2-3 times a week. I also had to address the exercise. This lad was in the run next to a very active aussie and was running the fence with her all day while I was at work. His front is now 95% better and still improving. So I would look at your dogs weight, diet and how much exercising he is getting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 8 weeks is a long time for this to have been going on. Hopefully there is not permanant damage in terms of early growth plate closure. Have a look at the amount you are feeding and what you are feeding. Cut back the amount of food. Do not add extra calcium. Make sure the food you are feeding has the right ratio of calcium (bone) to phosphorus (meat). You might find this website useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajacadoo Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Thanks Cowanbree for your quick reply... This guy has been on a bit of a growth spurt since he arried I think !!! He has never lost his topline, (something I have never had in any other ACD ive either bred or owned, I might add... Im not complaining, though !!!). He is fed twice a day, dry food, and his evening meal, is the dry with either chicken mince, sardines, our food scraps, added every night. He has a Fish Oil/Omega 3 capsule every night. He also has either chicken necks or beef/lamb bones 1-2 per week. Also gets probably an egg every 2-3 weeks too. I think he is at a good weight for the ring, but, I could/will drop of a little extra weight... Exercise wise, he is out in our large exercise area, for about half the daylight hours, with 2 active Basenji's, the rest of the day he is in a kennel area, and then he sleeps up in the house at night in a crate, but before bed he is out in the house playing with us and the Basenjis again... Just to clarify with you, did you move your boy away from the pen he was in, and thus reduced his exercise as well ??? If so, how long did this take for you to start noticing an improvement ??? Im just trying to get an idae on time frames here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajacadoo Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) Thanks puggy_puggy, I hope I havent left it too late too... Never even thought of it actually. I decided to sit back and wait, hoping not to have to intervene at all. I hope I havent done more damage than good, by doing this. Im off to read the link you gave, thank you... Edited to add... Another reason I have waited this ou ta bit, was cos I was/am, still waiting for him to drop his chest, as I have seen some other ACD's, significantly improve their east/west front legs when the chest drops... Edited August 24, 2009 by rajacadoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wylie Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Try 1000 to 2000mg of Vitamin C in his diet daily. It will help to assimilate his calcium and any excess will be peed out. Pat Hastings recommends it as well as an adult based dry food to help fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Definatley drop his food back. Have a look at the make up of the dry food you are feeding. Has the chicken mince got bone in it? If things are going to improve they should do so over a week or so once you drop the food back and make sure it's the correct ratio of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scales of Justice Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 rajacadoo, I think you would achieve more chance of improving the problem by feeding a balanced high quality dry food diet which is correctly balanced with all nutrients, rather than playing around with Vit C and Calcium. I have seen cases of overknuckling of the growth plates in youngsters from incorrect diet which was improved very rapidly by ceasing the diet and replacing with a balanced dry food. Perhaps it would also be wise to have his elbows checked by the vet also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Previously Reeve was in a 6 metre by 3 metre pen beside the other aussie Quest and as I said was fencing running all day. I moved him over to the sheltie kennels, cut his pen size in half and had older shelties either side of him so he wasn't as stimulated. I was actually told to lock him up completely but thought this was a better option. I still allowed him to play for a couple of hours a day but in bigger areas where there wasn't as much twisting and turning. It has taken about 6 weeks to correct and one leg is still turning out slightly. I am hoping it will 100% correct with time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Are you feeding the same diet as the previous owner? What brand are you feeding?? I would consider using a Bowen/doggy chiro to ensure he isnt sore & adding to the issue. If hes over playing or exercising his front could be pinched. Did he have a good front to start with?? If you lift his front off the ground do the front hang forward or east/west?? My youngster did this but i didnt wait so long.i re adjusted his diet & went to my bowen person.withing 2 weeks his front was back to normal for his age/breed & development. I didnt add any supplements to my dog but did change his dry to suit the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajacadoo Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Thanks guys for all the responses From what you guys are saying, I am starting to think I have done the wrong thing by leaving this too long with him. I just have to hope thats not the case :p His dry food is either Bonnie Puppy or Super Coat Puppy, at least it was till wylie suggested to switch him to adult food . I have used these brands with all the dogs for many years, and until now, I have NEVER had a problem with east/wests... Having said that, I also havent EVER added all these extras, (see above), either. I am wondering if I have completely unbalanced his diet, and this is showing up in his front legs ??? settrlvr I was actually going to make an appt with my Vet, have a talk to her, and get the name/recommendation of a chiro to see if that is the issue here. Someone else also mentioned having his elbows checked out by the Vet, too. I will be getting him H/E scored, but wont do it till he is about 18 months old. His front was really quite nice, no evidence of a problem at all. Gee, writing that makes me think Ive done the damage to him :D . If I have done the damage to him, by over supplementing him with all these yummy things added to his evening meal, I dont understand why the other dogs, here, who are also enjoying this diet, havent also got these problems. I have a 2 1/2yr male Basenji, a 15 month female Basenji, and now a 10 week old female Basenji as well. The 2 older B's have no issue with this. Perhaps he was predisposed to this, I dont know... I cant do the front off the ground thing, till he comes up to the house tonight, but I think it will be interesting to see how his legs dangle... I think this might answer some questions, depending how his legs fall... What exactly did you change his dry to, if you dont mind me asking ??? Cowanbree, thanks for the answer, I am wondering if I should stop all free range exercise, with him ??? Puggy_puggy I wonder if I should strap his legs up like the website ??? I have only had a really quick look at that site, VERY interesting, and what fabulous results too, and really the results were achieved so quickly... SOJ, I was wondering the exact same thing. Take him off all supplements, and go back to plain old dry food, just like all my other ACD's have been fed ;) Im sooooooooooooooooooo confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) I think what you need to remember is what your basenjis get & a large breed pup is very different. For personal choice i wouldnt feed either & there both high in protein. I switched mine to large/giant holistic eagle pack & whilst i hated the effect on the coat (made it dry) it was a god sent for his front which was excellent before hand. He hit a growth stage but was a big growing youngster & what he started on was excellent but not for the next stage. But each dog is different & providing the front was good in the first place & has suddenly gone bad then you can certainly have a good chance of fixing it. Certainly switching to adult with a better ratio works a treat aswell. My boy went through his phase from 9/11 months so his age isnt late at all. Mine are feed dry plus raw meat ,necks etc etc I didnt stop free range exercise as i had no concerns about it being a big issue BUT i did seek advice to make sure Edited August 25, 2009 by settrlvr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Try 1000 to 2000mg of Vitamin C in his diet daily. It will help to assimilate his calcium and any excess will be peed out.Pat Hastings recommends it as well as an adult based dry food to help fronts. Ditto Plenty of vit. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Puggy_puggy I wonder if I should strap his legs up like the website ??? I have only had a really quick look at that site, VERY interesting, and what fabulous results too, and really the results were achieved so quickly... I think that most vets that have knowledge on this condition would rather no strap or splint the legs as it does not allow the muscles and tendons to work for themselves and therefore learn to self correct themselves. Hopefully there has not been early growthplate closure of the radius and reducing his food and making sure the bone and meat ratio is correct will fix things up quickly. If the legs/feet have no shown any improvement within the next two weeks I would look at xraying to see what is going on with the radius and ulna. Do you have any photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavandra Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Ester C is the best form for absorption & helps all growth & joint porblems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I second Ester C rather than plain Vit C... it is a buffered form of Vit C You can get it in health food stores and chemists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embellish Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 what dosage of Ester C woulod you reccommend per 10Kg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajacadoo Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks everyone for your input.......... What I have decided to do is... He has been started on Ester C tabs, as of last night. They are 625mg, and I gave him 3 pills last night. I am giving him a chicken wing every second night. I have taken him off puppy food, and started him on adult, and have cut down the amount of food he is getting as well. I have removed all the extra protein foods that he was getting in his food as titbits also. I havent changed his exercise, as I would end up with a nutcase, if I did that !!! I picked him up off the ground the other night, and his legs are really quite straight, which surprised me somewhat, I expected them to be at least a bit east/west. Correct me if I am wrong here, but, thats a good thing isnt it ??? I will get some pics of his front here early next week... I have just had a thought. Last night I 'melted' his Vit C pills and tipped it over his dinner, but, I have just wondered if that is a good idea or not. Didnt I get the buffered, (slow release), ones so that the Vit C was slowly released into his bloodstream, during the day, or in this case, the night ??? I am thinking I need to give them to him whole, shouldnt I ??? Puggy_puggy, I will be xraying his legs in the next couple of weeks, if there is no improvement... Showdog, thanks for the extra info. I feel a bit more relieved that he isnt 'too old', to be able to fix this problem, (I say this, with my fingers and toes firmly crossed, and many prayers to the higher being )... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Might also be worth have a chiro vet see him - it's not the most likely cause at his age, but I know one of mine goes a bit east west when her back is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajacadoo Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks Diva, I am also planning a Vet trip for him too. I forgot to add it into the huge list in my last post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now