My Border Collie Has Started To Nip Other Dogs?

[persephone]

Excellent post, Vickie

[Vickie]

Thx Persephone .

To be honest I am getting tired of the "your dog is out of control b/c it is bred to work" argument. I find it is rarely the case & most people who own or have owned a dog who has truly been bred to work feel the same. I have 2 Border Collies who displayed some of the traits that the OP talks about (and see lots more at agility) but neither were bred to work.

[Vickie]

I would like to revise my advice as it was given based on the little information you provided.

I just watched some of your videos. Rusty looks very well stimulated, well trained, is clearly operant & has good focus on you when there are no distractions. Now you need to work on him when there are distractions.

Looks like you have just let him get into bad habits when running free. It's up to you, but personally I very rarely run my Border Collies with a bunch of dogs they don't know & I never let them play before & after training with dogs they don't know. I don't feel they need to play with strange dogs. I have lots of friends with dogs that they run with in controlled situations & I think that is enough for them.

As I said before, you need to prevent him from doing the undesireable behaviours. You will find that once you come up with a plan & decide that it will not happen anymore, it is actually quite easy to enforce your new rules. The hardest bit is often just making that decision. You are clearly a good dog trainer, who understands the value of consistency, so just treat this like you have trained him to do other things. Prevent the bad & reward the good. It won't take long.

[rustyredbc]

wow thanks vickie

i dont ever let him off the lead because i know he wont come back, i train with him on a long line if i plan on doing distance work.

when i say he chases birds i am talking about him being on lead and dragging me to get to them, lunging out!

i reward him when he is focused and when he does something good but its very hard for him to be good if there are birds around. he wont even take food from me when he is in that state of mind. so i cant get his attention back.

i know i will just have to keep working with him which i will. its just fustrating because he will focus at the park near me but not the training grounds.

something has to click with him.

i swear the birds are taunting him they fly in low all around him.

thanks for all your help:)

[Vickie]

when i say he chases birds i am talking about him being on lead and dragging me to get to them, lunging out!

just be careful you are not applying the opposition reflex here, it will actually make it him more likely to pull towards the birds. Try to get his attention just before he sees the birds, watch him carefully, you will see the 3 stages I mentioned early, they will also be there when he is on lead as well as off.

[Nekhbet]

Nipping / biting is the undesired trait / behaviour of the herding instinct / prey drive.

ahhh you see I thought you meant the prey drive was the undesirable trait I was so thinking, what the?

[jesomil]

To be honest I am getting tired of the "your dog is out of control b/c it is bred to work" argument. I find it is rarely the case & most people who own or have owned a dog who has truly been bred to work feel the same. I have 2 Border Collies who displayed some of the traits that the OP talks about (and see lots more at agility) but neither were bred to work.

Agree 110%

ETA just watched some of your videos. You guys look like a great team!! You are doing so well with his training. Hope you can get some help with his nipping.

Edited August 23, 2009 by jesomil

[Guest Clover]

I would forget his breed for a minute & concentrate on the actual issues you are having (which are common to many breeds). I agree, going to see a good trainer will help. He sounds like he needs some firm boundaries & some tricks/sports to stimulate his mind & tire him out.

Thats right if you don't want him biting at others dogs then you need to get him out of it, his breed is not an excuse to act out that way.

I too am sick of 'it's a working dog/ BC thing'. I have the opposite problem my JRT barrals through my BCs and comes of with chunks of fur in his mouth, it is getting to the point where he will be walked by himself at the park (the only place he does it).

[Staranais]

If you watch a dog who chases birds, there are 3 stages: first they haven't see the bird & are responsive to you, second they see the bird & their body stiffens a little, their ears flick, they lower their body a bit, during this 1-2 second stage it is usually possible to get their attention & reward for it, third stage is after they have taken off after teh birds. Calling most dogs at this stage is useless, many of them don't even hear you.

Great post, Vickie.

[fainty_girl]

rustyredbc,

I have some similar issues with my Kelpie X Tilly being distractable...i've found that when she is getting distracted I really have to make sure that I stay positive (ie. use a positive tone of voice), even if she's frustrating me, to try and get her attention. It's not always easy, but I try.

In the past Tilly has nipped at dogs a few times...but this was something she did when first getting to the park if she was particularly overexcited, and the other dog was very excited waiting for their ball to be thrown. It wasn't something she did to every dog, and 99% of the time she'd just run along with any dog with no issues, keeping her own ball in her mouth the whole time. For this reason and others I started taking her elsewhere for a run, somewhere less exciting and she hasn't given any dogs herding type nips since. She will still join in for the odd game of fetch if there is a dog playing where I take her, but she just runs with the other dog - she gives them space and never seems to bother the dog. Just recently I have tried taking her to a very quiet dog park, but only after she's had a good run elsewhere and is already tired (think not retrieving her ball anymore and resting in a garden bed).

When Tilly is out of the house she's not very interested in dog treats, but if I remember I try and take a banana with me when I go out because that is one of her favourite foods, and it does get her attention much more than a dog treat.

Walking away in the opposite direction or towards the car/home also helps with Tilly if she's not listening, but not when she's running and playing with another dog.

I suppose you've got to try and find your dog's "currency"...could you use something particularly tasty for a treat (eg.some chicken or meat scraps from a roast lamb or something like that?

[jesomil]

Just make sure you progress with the training as tasty treats are all well and good when teaching the behaviour but the dog then has to learn that he has to come when called, not just because he wants a treat. The command is not negotiable.

[alpha bet]

There is an old timer who lives north of melbourne (retired sheep farmer) he has some different people come up now and then to work with some sheep. I have watched him quite a few times and often recommend people to take their fanatic b/c to have some fun.

He is a pretty quiet old bloke and just has a small herd of sheep but he likes helping people learn to work their herding crazed dogs. He shows you how to start off in a yard with about 5 sheep with dog on a line and then off line.... once the dog gets consistent (might take a few sessions) then you can work a small mob in the paddock.