bobchic Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 To start with I know dogs shouldnt be sleeping in the same bed as the owner but I like it so Im not looking to change that.. I just want to know if there are other areas I can do things to prevent what happened (explained below) Last night I went to bed and Mr Fluffy followed as per usual. He will choose where he sleeps on the bed but will usually curl up at my feet on top of the covers or snuggle underneath behind my legs or at my stomach. Last night my OH came to bed late (this is usual) and Fluffy either got suprised or wanted to dominate and started snarling and trying to bite. I was half asleep and instantly thought he had gotten suprised so I held him still (he stopped snarling and was quiet, not struggling) while my OH got into bed. I let him go and unknown to me, Fluffy had his paws on my OH's back and was pushing him. After 1 or 2 mins Fluffy started yelping and snarling again. This time I knew he wasnt just startled and was probly wanting my OH out of the bed. I grabbed him (got bit but no blood or broken skin) and put him on his back and held him down. My OH went to turn on the light so Fluffy could see it was me getting grumpy with him and not my OH. I then pushed him off the bed and said 'DOWN'. He put his front paws up as if asking if he could get up again. I said down and turned off the light and went back to bed. In the morning he was curled up on the floor by the bed and didnt hop back on at all through the night. My OH believes I should have removed Fluffy from the room entirly and locked him into the bathroom. But I feel if I did that the message wouldnt have gotten through that he was not in charge of the bed and that I was. Did I do the right thing? What should I do to try gain my dominance again (as it seems maybe Im not being a good 'pack leader') Should I kick him off the bed for a week or so but allow him in the room? Or should I just prevent him jumping onto the bed as he see's fit and only allow him on if I invite him? For awhile I have been stopping him from just jumping up on the couch unless he has been invited. He waits for his food. He has to walk beside me and not infront of me. I just dont understand why he reacted in such a way last night. Any ideas (other then kicking him out of bed permantly) please let me know Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 You are on the right track... any privileges, such as being on human furniture are to be worked for... and only taken when invited . he is now getting older, and making his presence felt . have a read here LINK and LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodle proud Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Cesar Millan addresses this issue several times in the season two episodes if you are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobchic Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 I do watch Cesar... I have done many things different since watching his shows, such as not letting him up without inviting and walking him beside me not infront. Also when he was a pup and I started not allowing him up on the couch on his own accord, the first time I kept pushing him off he started yelping as if in pain. Turned out he was just whinging because he couldnt get his own way. lol I have also been asking him to sit and keeping him there when he starts to bark at nothing in particular. I started that on Monday and had to keep correcting him back into a sit for 5 mins or so until he got the idea. Then just just sat there shaking not knowing what to do with himself lol. But it worked (I gave a treat when i released him. So I wasnt being a big meany) That has been good now because when we have a pizza delivered or something and he is barking and going crazy, it is easier to get him to sit and calm down a bit. Missy is another story but Fluffy will sit even if Missy is jumping all over him.. Just this snarling biting thing was out of the blue. Im still tempted to think he maybe didnt realise it was my OH in the bed... But Im still going to reassert myself anyway.. Thanks heaps for the feedback guys. Feels a bit better now.. Maybe Im not the worst puppy mother in the world lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Im still tempted to think he maybe didnt realise it was my OH in the bed. he knows darn well who was in the bed! he is being a terror Get OH to do some of the exercises as well.. so The fluffy tyrant sees OH as a leader too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 sounds like he wants to be higher in the pack then your OH, maybe he should let the dog know this aint so. male dogs offten try to rise in the ranks and the bed is just the place to try it on! just as if you and your partner were his pack mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 It's easy to get caught up thinking this sort of behaviour is simply an attempt to "rise through the ranks" but that could lead to some pointless outcomes that don't directly address the issue (e.g "alpha roll"). At the heart of the matter you have a resource guarding issue, a dog who wants that side of the bed, or you, to himself. Dogs do what works. This didn't work, in fact it got him banished from the bed. His behaviour (growling) resulted in a cost (loss of resource or privilege). I'm not sure if your OH is in any danger, but this is probably all that you need to do if it is safe to do so. Calmly ask him to get down from the bed (if he knows what that means, and it seems that he does), or place him on the floor. He probably only needs a minute off the bed, then you can invite him back onto the bed. If he objects to your OH again, calmly ask him to get off the bed. If you need to do this more than 4 or 5 times I would be surprised. If it makes him worse, then abort the mission. If there is very little change, then just don't let him sleep on the bed. If he is able to return to the bed, only let him sleep at your feet. It's quite possible that your OH rolling over in their sleep has frightened your dog and this may even be the reason (one of many possibilities) for this recent behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Good post Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Good post Aidan agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 A similar thing happened to April's breeder many years ago with one of their previous dogs. After being told this & reading a book by a behaviourist just after I got April, the author can't remember who he was, used to make house visits to problem dogs & one of the 1st questions he would ask clients was - do the dogs sleep on the bed?, I have never let my dogs sleep on the bed or in the bedroom. They have their own room in the back of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobchic Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 Fluffy definantly knows OH is higher then him (OH feeds, washes, brushes and clips the puppys nails all the time) Fluff is 8 months old now so maybe he is coming into a 'testing the waters' phase. Also I have another issue. He gets up on the kitchen bench!! We have two armchairs that sit against the bench and due to the smallness of the house they cant be moved. I have tried baning the puppies from these chairs, and Fluffy wont go up on them.... While we are around. Every morning I have a routine where I take the puppies to the lounge and open the door for wees. I leave them to it and go to the bathroom and do my thing. Every so often I will walk out of the bathroom cause I forgot something and guess who is on the bench!! he hears the door open and will scramble to get off before I see him.... Grrr I give a curt 'AH!' and he comes up to me then puts his ears down and rolls onto his back. He wont get up til I move away. And if I look at him again he will roll straight onto his back... But I just have no idea how to stop him going up onto the bench in the first place. We just cant move the chairs. They have to be there He does heaps of stuff where he thinks Im not looking and will do something.. He is very intelligent.... One day I was home sick from work, my OH is on night shifts, so was asleep during the day. My OH had been complaining about the dogs barking all day but I just thought it was them playing... Turns out, Fluffy does play... He will yelp or bark in the lounge room and then walk over to the bedroom door and wait about 30seconds. He then goes off for a few mins and comes back to the same spot and does the same thing. I watched him do this for an hour!! Kept barking then going over to the bedroom door to check if my OH was going to come out!! Aparently when he was a puppy (3 months) my OH said that about 30mins before I got home he would continually walk up the hallway to the front door and check it. He would stop doing this once I got home... Too bad ADT fell over... I could have used my puppy training time to ask them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Wow, is Mr Fluffy such a teenager. There are a lot of matt-type thingos online to make surfaces uncomfortable to walk on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzat Xolo Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I cant add to the good avice already stated but I do hope Mr Big Fluffy is ok from his ordeal and does not have to sleep with the light on in fear of what may be lurking under the bed covers! Sorry, its not funny, but I imagined it all in my head and I had a really funny a picture. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 He gets up on the kitchen bench!! Keep all food, including crumbs, off your kitchen bench except when you are in the room. I give a curt 'AH!' and he comes up to me then puts his ears down and rolls onto his back. He wont get up til I move away. And if I look at him again he will roll straight onto his back...But I just have no idea how to stop him going up onto the bench in the first place. This suggests that he doesn't understand why you are angry, and that he is trying to appease you. It becomes a lot easier to solve behaviour problems when you forget about who is dominant and remember this: -- Dogs do what works for them -- If you want to take it a step further, you can start asking yourself questions like, "what would I like my dog to do instead of the thing I don't want him to do?" and "how can what I want my dog to do be used to earn what my dog wants?" He does heaps of stuff where he thinks Im not looking and will do something.. He is very intelligent.... He is, he has learned how to avoid punishment by doing stuff when you are not looking. It works for him, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) Fluffy definantly knows OH is higher then him (OH feeds, washes, brushes and clips the puppys nails all the time) but it doesn't mean he is the 'top dog', really I do all this for our working dogs..... but will they listen to me when working? NOOOO ! Their attention is all for their 'boss'..my brother. Edited August 19, 2009 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) I prefer for a dog to know and understand being OFF furniture (including the bed), before I train them to the PRIVILEGE of being on furniture. In the long term, I think this is easier for both dog and owner. If I had a dog that ever growled for the reason of someone disturbing him/her whilst on the bed, I'd be making it very clear that ON the bed is off limits and I would keep that up until the dog clearly showed me that he/she had accepted and expected his/her place was on the mat/cushion on the floor. I also don't allow a dog up on furniture/bed with me if there is any hint of the dog 'begging' or 'asking' to get up. Clear and distinct rules. I know that there are a good number - especially (but not only) in the 'positive only' realms of dog methodology - who believe that a dog being on the bed or off makes no difference to its thoughts for pack position. However I know first hand with my own boy that it does make a difference as, if I permit him up on the couch with me (has always and only EVER been on my command/terms) once or twice in a row, he will begin 'pushing buttons' in other ways in our day to day interactions. I've experimented with this ..... and it happens every time. And I know that I am not the only one who experiences these behavioural changes in their dog all for the matter of the dog being on the couch or bed. Edited August 19, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) He is, he has learned how to avoid punishment by doing stuff when you are not looking. It works for him, too. I tend to think it's more likely a case of the dog learning that it is ok to do stuff when we're not there/not looking and not okay when we are. Saying the same or very similar thing as you Aidan, but with a different 'slant' to it. Edited August 19, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Hi bobchic, so much good advice, I would just like to add that my oldest female dog who is 2 occasionally asserts her dominance, not with me or my OH but with the other dogs, she sleeps on the bed and a little while back she was being protective of the bed to the other dogs not letting them get up by growling at them and warning them off jumping up if that makes sense, I nipped it in the bud strait away and she was promptly ushered off the bed on to her bed on the floor (next to the bed) and thats where she stayed for the next 2 nights then she was invited back on the bed again, she hasnt done it since. I too have got a lot out of Cesars shows, he is awesome and so many of the things he teaches people is really common sense!! Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Perhaps you should make a choice..... who will share the bed with you?..... Mr Fluffy or OH? Who will sit at the table with you? ....... Mr Fluffy or OH? It is up to you to make the decision and then make it happen. A word of warning tho remember it is likely that OH has earned the right to have these privileges, Mr Fluffy hasnt... well not yet anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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