Hip Dysplasia

[chiara]

Hey all we are still hanging on!!

I've been super busy so sorry for the long silence, I read all your threads since. Thank you all again!

We are managing Hugo for now as we are saving up for the THR.

We found a surgeon and now we are just saving saving saving!

Hugo is doing well considering, he's taking his herbal pain killers and anti inflammatory, I started him on raw, which our holistic vet recommended, he seems to like the raw meat so we're all happy. I'm really concentrating on preparing for the recovery, I'm teaching him how to walk with a sling, shopping around for a crate... still debating if that's necessary as he's quite happy to lay on his bed all day and night so not sure about that one.

If anyone has had THR and has any tips and hints to give about recovery I would appreciate!

[blacklabrador]

EEk!! Chiara, are you in Brisbane? Whoa re you seeing about the surgery!!!! It had better be Richard Mitchell from the sunny coast. He is the BEST orthapedic surgeon and will NOT recommend surgery on the look of an xray at all.

And isn't he a HONEY!!! He ought have been a movie star instead of a vet. He's good looking and has the smoothest English accent. Oh and he's also very good at his job.

[mrs tornsocks]

I am sorry to hear about Hugos diagnosis. I have a labrador, one year old with hip and elbow dysplasia. We had his elbow operated on and were looking at doing TPO on his hips. His surgeon decided against this, even though his pennhip scores were bad he is doing well with his hips and recent xrays showed no arthritis yet. We are fully prepared that his left hip is probably going to require a hip replacement one day. I would say in a dog of your size this would be the most likely option but does come with a big price tag. I am sad that Mokha will probably not have the life I had imagined. I set up a care credit account so we can pay for whatever he needs and then claim it from our insurance. If you have not got insurance since he is diagnosed it is too late and will be considered pre existing. I am really sorry that you are facing the things we are. It has been so stressful and heartbreaking to have to leave him home when our other lab gets to do things he cant.I just took him out for a short off lead frolic in the grass at the park for the first time in 7 weeks and he rolled in the mud. He was so happy to have some freedom.Good luck with your visit with the surgeon. My only suggestion would be dont make hasty decisions, it can be overwhelming when they explain things. Take a little time to process it all.

Mokha and OP, I am sorry to hear about your furkids and what they are going through. So glad you got a 'mud roll' Mokha ! That must make you smile.

I hope you don't mind me taking this slightly off posted topic but I am wondering.

Mokha do you know your lab's parents hip/elbow scores ? This is something I am very paranoid about wiht our lab and although he's fine at the moment aged 5 months, I'm keen to prevent it happening (we watch his level of exercise / impact / jumping etc).

But I know we do everything we can to avoid -but sometimes it's just unavoidable.

This might be a really obvious question but I'm interested to know whether sometimes - can the sire/dam's hip scores be ok but the offspring still suffers ?

[blacklabrador]

I am sorry to hear about Hugos diagnosis. I have a labrador, one year old with hip and elbow dysplasia. We had his elbow operated on and were looking at doing TPO on his hips. His surgeon decided against this, even though his pennhip scores were bad he is doing well with his hips and recent xrays showed no arthritis yet. We are fully prepared that his left hip is probably going to require a hip replacement one day. I would say in a dog of your size this would be the most likely option but does come with a big price tag. I am sad that Mokha will probably not have the life I had imagined. I set up a care credit account so we can pay for whatever he needs and then claim it from our insurance. If you have not got insurance since he is diagnosed it is too late and will be considered pre existing. I am really sorry that you are facing the things we are. It has been so stressful and heartbreaking to have to leave him home when our other lab gets to do things he cant.I just took him out for a short off lead frolic in the grass at the park for the first time in 7 weeks and he rolled in the mud. He was so happy to have some freedom.Good luck with your visit with the surgeon. My only suggestion would be dont make hasty decisions, it can be overwhelming when they explain things. Take a little time to process it all.

Mokha and OP, I am sorry to hear about your furkids and what they are going through. So glad you got a 'mud roll' Mokha ! That must make you smile.

I hope you don't mind me taking this slightly off posted topic but I am wondering.

Mokha do you know your lab's parents hip/elbow scores ? This is something I am very paranoid about wiht our lab and although he's fine at the moment aged 5 months, I'm keen to prevent it happening (we watch his level of exercise / impact / jumping etc).

But I know we do everything we can to avoid -but sometimes it's just unavoidable.

This might be a really obvious question but I'm interested to know whether sometimes - can the sire/dam's hip scores be ok but the offspring still suffers ?

Yep - I bred a pup with severe ED from parents with 0:0 elbow scores. I had to remortgage my house to pay for surgery with the lovely Dr Mitchell.

[Cavalier]

I am sorry to hear about Hugos diagnosis. I have a labrador, one year old with hip and elbow dysplasia. We had his elbow operated on and were looking at doing TPO on his hips. His surgeon decided against this, even though his pennhip scores were bad he is doing well with his hips and recent xrays showed no arthritis yet. We are fully prepared that his left hip is probably going to require a hip replacement one day. I would say in a dog of your size this would be the most likely option but does come with a big price tag. I am sad that Mokha will probably not have the life I had imagined. I set up a care credit account so we can pay for whatever he needs and then claim it from our insurance. If you have not got insurance since he is diagnosed it is too late and will be considered pre existing. I am really sorry that you are facing the things we are. It has been so stressful and heartbreaking to have to leave him home when our other lab gets to do things he cant.I just took him out for a short off lead frolic in the grass at the park for the first time in 7 weeks and he rolled in the mud. He was so happy to have some freedom.Good luck with your visit with the surgeon. My only suggestion would be dont make hasty decisions, it can be overwhelming when they explain things. Take a little time to process it all.

Mokha and OP, I am sorry to hear about your furkids and what they are going through. So glad you got a 'mud roll' Mokha ! That must make you smile.

I hope you don't mind me taking this slightly off posted topic but I am wondering.

Mokha do you know your lab's parents hip/elbow scores ? This is something I am very paranoid about wiht our lab and although he's fine at the moment aged 5 months, I'm keen to prevent it happening (we watch his level of exercise / impact / jumping etc).

But I know we do everything we can to avoid -but sometimes it's just unavoidable.

This might be a really obvious question but I'm interested to know whether sometimes - can the sire/dam's hip scores be ok but the offspring still suffers ?

Definitely can unfortuately

We have two GSDs both parents had 0:0 hips and both have very severe hip dysplasia.

Unfortunately HD is a polygenic trait - meaning many genes play the part in determining whether a dog has bad hips or not. This is why it is proving to be a

very difficult disease to "breed out".

[mrs tornsocks]

thanks cav and pointee ....

Aside from caution in over-exerting the youngsters (plus good diet, supplements etc.) are there any other preventative measures ? And is there an average age when it can be recognised/diagnosed ?

Finally, if a good score for parents can still mean HD in offspring, does this in turn mean offspring could just as easily NOT pass it on ? No breeding plans here, this is purely 'educational' info for me.

thanks again

[Cavalier]

thanks cav and pointee ....

Aside from caution in over-exerting the youngsters (plus good diet, supplements etc.) are there any other preventative measures ? And is there an average age when it can be recognised/diagnosed ?

Finally, if a good score for parents can still mean HD in offspring, does this in turn mean offspring could just as easily NOT pass it on ? No breeding plans here, this is purely 'educational' info for me.

thanks again

Yes dogs with severe HD can produce normal offspring BUT they are much more likely to produce pups that go on to have high hip scores. Hip scores are usually done at 18 months of age but hip dysplasia can be diagnosed at any age, although it is usually only recognised once dog owners bring their 9-12 month old pups in to the vet because they are limping or "walking funny"

[mokhahouse]

I am sorry to hear about Hugos diagnosis. I have a labrador, one year old with hip and elbow dysplasia. We had his elbow operated on and were looking at doing TPO on his hips. His surgeon decided against this, even though his pennhip scores were bad he is doing well with his hips and recent xrays showed no arthritis yet. We are fully prepared that his left hip is probably going to require a hip replacement one day. I would say in a dog of your size this would be the most likely option but does come with a big price tag. I am sad that Mokha will probably not have the life I had imagined. I set up a care credit account so we can pay for whatever he needs and then claim it from our insurance. If you have not got insurance since he is diagnosed it is too late and will be considered pre existing. I am really sorry that you are facing the things we are. It has been so stressful and heartbreaking to have to leave him home when our other lab gets to do things he cant.I just took him out for a short off lead frolic in the grass at the park for the first time in 7 weeks and he rolled in the mud. He was so happy to have some freedom.Good luck with your visit with the surgeon. My only suggestion would be dont make hasty decisions, it can be overwhelming when they explain things. Take a little time to process it all.

Mokha and OP, I am sorry to hear about your furkids and what they are going through. So glad you got a 'mud roll' Mokha ! That must make you smile.

I hope you don't mind me taking this slightly off posted topic but I am wondering.

Mokha do you know your lab's parents hip/elbow scores ? This is something I am very paranoid about wiht our lab and although he's fine at the moment aged 5 months, I'm keen to prevent it happening (we watch his level of exercise / impact / jumping etc).

But I know we do everything we can to avoid -but sometimes it's just unavoidable.

This might be a really obvious question but I'm interested to know whether sometimes - can the sire/dam's hip scores be ok but the offspring still suffers ?

We dont know Mokhas parentage at all, he was bought before I knew better from a certain franchise that showed no interest when I informed them that he had ED/HD. I told them I would like their supplier of labs informed that they were supplying poor health dogs but could not even get the manager to call us back even after several in person visits to the store. I know better now but Mokha is our responsibility so we will do what we can to give him the best life he can have. I would never buy another dog unless I could view the parents clearances or rescue as we did with Molly. I believe over exercising and diet can contribute but we were very careful with Mokha and he has been kept lean all along on a good diet. I can only come to the conclusion it is hereditary.At least with the parentage known to have good joints you can probably be more confident of a healthy pup. I hope you never have to worry about any joint problems. Sometimes it breaks my heart when I look at my lovely chocolate boy knowing that their is going to be pain in his future.

[Cosmolo]

Dexter was diagnosed at 4-5 months. Cavalier- is there any reason to think that a dog that shows signs of HD and ED earlier has worse hips/ elbows? What would cause one dog to be symptomatic at 5 months and another not symptomatic until 12-18 months?

[lappiemum]

I am sorry to hear about Hugos diagnosis. I have a labrador, one year old with hip and elbow dysplasia. We had his elbow operated on and were looking at doing TPO on his hips. His surgeon decided against this, even though his pennhip scores were bad he is doing well with his hips and recent xrays showed no arthritis yet. We are fully prepared that his left hip is probably going to require a hip replacement one day. I would say in a dog of your size this would be the most likely option but does come with a big price tag. I am sad that Mokha will probably not have the life I had imagined. I set up a care credit account so we can pay for whatever he needs and then claim it from our insurance. If you have not got insurance since he is diagnosed it is too late and will be considered pre existing. I am really sorry that you are facing the things we are. It has been so stressful and heartbreaking to have to leave him home when our other lab gets to do things he cant.I just took him out for a short off lead frolic in the grass at the park for the first time in 7 weeks and he rolled in the mud. He was so happy to have some freedom.Good luck with your visit with the surgeon. My only suggestion would be dont make hasty decisions, it can be overwhelming when they explain things. Take a little time to process it all.

Mokha and OP, I am sorry to hear about your furkids and what they are going through. So glad you got a 'mud roll' Mokha ! That must make you smile.

I hope you don't mind me taking this slightly off posted topic but I am wondering.

Mokha do you know your lab's parents hip/elbow scores ? This is something I am very paranoid about wiht our lab and although he's fine at the moment aged 5 months, I'm keen to prevent it happening (we watch his level of exercise / impact / jumping etc).

But I know we do everything we can to avoid -but sometimes it's just unavoidable.

This might be a really obvious question but I'm interested to know whether sometimes - can the sire/dam's hip scores be ok but the offspring still suffers ?

We dont know Mokhas parentage at all, he was bought before I knew better from a certain franchise that showed no interest when I informed them that he had ED/HD. I told them I would like their supplier of labs informed that they were supplying poor health dogs but could not even get the manager to call us back even after several in person visits to the store. I know better now but Mokha is our responsibility so we will do what we can to give him the best life he can have. I would never buy another dog unless I could view the parents clearances or rescue as we did with Molly. I believe over exercising and diet can contribute but we were very careful with Mokha and he has been kept lean all along on a good diet. I can only come to the conclusion it is hereditary.At least with the parentage known to have good joints you can probably be more confident of a healthy pup. I hope you never have to worry about any joint problems. Sometimes it breaks my heart when I look at my lovely chocolate boy knowing that their is going to be pain in his future.

sorry to hear that. Its such a heart rendering thing. I wish there was a way to make that breeder and pet shop responsible, but sadly, there isn;t much out there to help you. This is the real tradgedy of the dog world - I wish they would focus legislation on this rather than what they do now!

[Monah]

Dexter was diagnosed at 4-5 months. Cavalier- is there any reason to think that a dog that shows signs of HD and ED earlier has worse hips/ elbows? What would cause one dog to be symptomatic at 5 months and another not symptomatic until 12-18 months?

Ours was too. there probably is a reason why, but I also think it may be that some owners notice earlier. I noticed with my dog, but no one else could 'see' anything. I had xrays done to check, and, voila! there is was ;) I've asked other people about their dog's hips/joints and they think that because the dog has 'always' walked like that, that is just the way they walk.

Maybe the severity of the HD has something to do with when they are diagnosed.??

[Monah]

EEk!! Chiara, are you in Brisbane? Whoa re you seeing about the surgery!!!! It had better be Richard Mitchell from the sunny coast. He is the BEST orthapedic surgeon and will NOT recommend surgery on the look of an xray at all.

And isn't he a HONEY!!! He ought have been a movie star instead of a vet. ;) He's good looking and has the smoothest English accent. Oh and he's also very good at his job. ;)

HONEY!!! THat's a serious understatement. ;) THe first time I saw him, I almost forgot why I was there! OMG! He is gorgeous, iintelligent, gorgeous, sympathetic, gorgeous, honest, Oh did I mention GORGEOUS ;) and, he has the cutest brown burmese that he ADORES (I'm a sucker for a cat man!)

AND, of course, he is a fantastic surgeon too!

[blacklabrador]

EEk!! Chiara, are you in Brisbane? Whoa re you seeing about the surgery!!!! It had better be Richard Mitchell from the sunny coast. He is the BEST orthapedic surgeon and will NOT recommend surgery on the look of an xray at all.

And isn't he a HONEY!!! He ought have been a movie star instead of a vet. He's good looking and has the smoothest English accent. Oh and he's also very good at his job. :D

HONEY!!! THat's a serious understatement. THe first time I saw him, I almost forgot why I was there! OMG! He is gorgeous, iintelligent, gorgeous, sympathetic, gorgeous, honest, Oh did I mention GORGEOUS ;) ;) and, he has the cutest brown burmese that he ADORES (I'm a sucker for a cat man!)

AND, of course, he is a fantastic surgeon too!

Very attentive too. I had a panic moment when Guido developed a red flush around both his wounds (no heat or ooze) and a quick phone call to Richard on a Saturday afternoon revealed that it was probably a bit of innocuous razor burn from where the fur was shaved. ;) He was very nice about being disturbed about the emergency razor burns though. ;)

[Rappie]

Maybe the severity of the HD has something to do with when they are diagnosed.??

A lot of it will depend on the dynamics of the joints involved. Often the early signs of pain are due to microfractures in bone and cartilage on the periphery of joint surfaces due to abnormal forces placed upon them. Often we take rads of these dogs and find 'loose' hips but no signs of degeneration - this come later when bone remodelling occurs.

Severity of clinical signs does not always correlate with severity of changes on rads.

[teekay]

Hi Everyone,

I've had an interesting morning reading all your posts. I have just found out that my dog may have a genetic disposition to HD. Another person who got a dog from the same place has now had their dog diagnosed with HD at 7.5 months. Jenna is 4 months old and we are going to see Richard Mitchell (glad I'm seeing him after everyone's comments about him :D ) this morning with a view to doing PennHip xrays and possibly Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis. Has anyone any experience of this proceedure, I know it's pretty new and don't like to use Jenna as a guinea pig but if it could prevent problems it would be worth it. She isn't showing any signs at the moment but she is still a young puppy. If only we all had a crystal ball.

I will let you all know what Richard says and will be following the posts on here avidly. So glad i found this place. I feel better already just reading about peoples experiences.

[chiara]

My vet is Gordon Corfield, has anyone had him operate on their pups? he's at the Gold Coast but can also be found in Springwood at the SVV.

We went to the Holistic vet again last week to get Hugo realigned as he was having more pain and could hardly get up from his bed, he's doing much better now.

In regards to hip scores and how young a pup is before diagnosis, well Hugo's parents were supposedly in great health and had no HD, after doing so much research on this condition it does seem to be quite random, even if two dogs have perfect hip scores it's not to say they won't have pups with HD, and again there is always an environmental factor... in short you never know! the best thing is to get pet insurance straight away because HD and ED are not fatal conditions and can be treated however as most of us know they are very expensive conditions to rectify.

I would also urge any dog owner to follow their instinct, I was told HP didn't show up until at least 12 months and xrays could only be done at 12-18 months... b****t Hugo was walking with a sway at 5 months, I kept asking people if they thought he was walking funny but no one but me could see it.

The most obvious signs I saw in Hugo and which after a bit of research were confirmed were:

as a small pup he would bunny hop around (be careful as lots of pups will do this especially in grass and don't have HD)

swaying when walking, can look quite funny like a shake of the butt.

in long walks the pup might just sit and refuse to keep on walking.

cracking noise of the bones when the dog/pup gets up or sits.

difficulty in getting up from a laying down position.

when dealing with HD the dog will put most of the weight on the front legs, so keep an eye out for development of the upper body and muscle loss in the lower body.

Anyway I just want to say to people out there not to give up on their pets if they have HD or ED because it's manageable and treatable. I've heard of pets being put down because of this condition, mainly because the operations are so expensive, short of getting vets to cut prices I URGE ALL PET OWNERS TO GET INSURANCE!!! it will help and just don't give in!

[teekay]

My vet is Gordon Corfield, has anyone had him operate on their pups? he's at the Gold Coast but can also be found in Springwood at the SVV.

We went to the Holistic vet again last week to get Hugo realigned as he was having more pain and could hardly get up from his bed, he's doing much better now.

In regards to hip scores and how young a pup is before diagnosis, well Hugo's parents were supposedly in great health and had no HD, after doing so much research on this condition it does seem to be quite random, even if two dogs have perfect hip scores it's not to say they won't have pups with HD, and again there is always an environmental factor... in short you never know! the best thing is to get pet insurance straight away because HD and ED are not fatal conditions and can be treated however as most of us know they are very expensive conditions to rectify.

I would also urge any dog owner to follow their instinct, I was told HP didn't show up until at least 12 months and xrays could only be done at 12-18 months... b****t Hugo was walking with a sway at 5 months, I kept asking people if they thought he was walking funny but no one but me could see it.

The most obvious signs I saw in Hugo and which after a bit of research were confirmed were:

as a small pup he would bunny hop around (be careful as lots of pups will do this especially in grass and don't have HD)

swaying when walking, can look quite funny like a shake of the butt.

in long walks the pup might just sit and refuse to keep on walking.

cracking noise of the bones when the dog/pup gets up or sits.

difficulty in getting up from a laying down position.

when dealing with HD the dog will put most of the weight on the front legs, so keep an eye out for development of the upper body and muscle loss in the lower body.

Anyway I just want to say to people out there not to give up on their pets if they have HD or ED because it's manageable and treatable. I've heard of pets being put down because of this condition, mainly because the operations are so expensive, short of getting vets to cut prices I URGE ALL PET OWNERS TO GET INSURANCE!!! it will help and just don't give in!

Thanks Chiara, your posts are so helpful and informative. I really hope Hugo improves.

Jenna and I saw Richard Mitchell yesterday and he said he could see nothing wrong observing her walking, and on manipulation of her hips every thing also seems fine but to get a better indication he is doing the PenHipp xrays on Tuesday and if they do not look good he will give me a call but aim to go ahead and do the JPS and also de-sex her while she is still under the anaesthetic. That way at least it gets everything over in one operation. I intended to have her desexed anyway and I'm told it's ok to do this at 4 months although I would usually wait til 6 months ideally. Thankfully I did get pet insurance as soon as I got Jenna having lost my labrador Holly earlier this year after various expensive tests to find out what was wrong with her. She was also insured and I am so glad finances did not get in the way of deciding what was best for her.

[Rottifan]

Hi - good luck with your boy, I hope he returns to his old self soon. My boy is about to turn 9. He was diagnosed with severe elbow displaysia a few years ago and put on Metacam however the bad limping returned a couple of months after starting him on that daily dose. Operating was out of the question for him due to the xrays showing how bad his bones/joints are. Two other pain killers were added to his daily medication which worked ok however i didnt like having to give him too much medication (Gabapentin & Neurontin). My vet suggested I try accupuncture for pain relief however after finding a vet in Indooroopilly who did that there wasnt a whole lot of difference to him. My hydrobath lady then told me of an animal chiropractor who used to work on the police dogs. After a series of treatments I was able to reduce his medication and he has been on no medication or supplements for nearly a year now. He doesnt limp or struggle to get up. There's absolutely no doubt he has the displaysia and arthritis given the xrays show it however he was limping moreso because of pinched nerves in his back and shoulder. He now runs around like a puppy and everyday is a pleasure to watch him move better than he has in years. I am so so lucky and I truly hope you find a similar result for Hugo!

[chiara]

Well I'm just about to loose my mind trying to compare vets... is it just me or do others find it really difficult to extract information from vets?

I mean I realize the surgeon will need to see Hugo before going in to operate but I am not about to drag him to see 5 or 6 surgeons while I decide who's the best qualified... I have the diagnosis all I want is to know how experienced the surgeon is what kind of implant and technique they use and how much it costs.... is it wrong of me to assume this information should be given to me before the vet sees Hugo???

How do I even know if someone is experienced how do I know I'm not getting ripped off?

If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even be looking... so thanks everyone for the references.

PS I've been in contact with Dr Mitchell :-)

[Benny07]

Hey Chiara not to throw a spanner in the works but I had a friend who's dog had hip dysplasia and they tried a stem cell therapy which worked wonders.

He was a tad older mind, at 10 years old, and instead of an invasive procedure like a hip replacement, he had stem cells from his own body injected into his affected joints. Really made a difference in stabilising the hip and reducing the pain he was suffering from. When my friend went home to visit months after the treatment, his dog bounding down the stairs to meet him which he couldn't even attempt before.

I hope whatever you decide to go for, works well for Hugo.