Hip Dysplasia

[chiara]

Well, finally after finding a good vet we took Hugo to get x rays, it was confirmed he has severe hip dysplasia.

His right leg is much worse off than the left. We did the x rays at a holistic vet practice and although they are all for conservative practice the vet said that looking at the x rays at least his right leg will need surgery, so we are off to see a surgeon next week.

I've been doing lots of research online but I'm still quite confused, I personally think he will need total hip replacement at least on the right leg. I really would love to hear from people who have experience with HD and perhaps of experiences with surgeries and hip replacements.

He's been on anti-inflammatory powder, pain meds and restricted exercise, he's doing a little better now however he's very lethargic he sleeps all day and night, apart from toilet breaks and the odd bone he's not keen on anything.

[Cosmolo]

What breed, age and weight is Hugo? if you do a search for "dexter" you'll find a few good threads on HD- i know how you feel, Dexter has HD and ED.

[chiara]

Hugo is a rottweiler, he's 50kg and he just turned one yesterday, I will search for dexter thank you.

I don't even want to think about ED! He has given no signs of it so I'm praying!

Poor Dexter, I hope he's coping, I will read the threads.

[Nicole...]

I'm so sorry to read this chiara. It's such a dreadful condition and to be in so much pain at such a young age is just not fair.

Aside from giving my support, I just wanted to say that HD will lead to arthritis down the track so if his X-Rays are bad and he is in that much pain then definitely get the surgery now. The earlier you do it, then less damage is done so you are much better off. Make sure that you go through a specialist surgeon, not just a GP vet too, they will offer you a lot more options and are the pros at the job.

[chiara]

Hi Nicole,

Thank you for the support! it's been a big learning curve trying to read as much as possible about HD.

We are going to see a specialist in a few days provided I can make an appointment. And tomorrow we are going back to the general vet to check on his progress with the medications he's been taking. I think he's doing better he doesn't seem in pain and apart from a bit of an awkward walk style he seems OK. The muscles on his back legs are really tight which is a symptom that I've seem mentioned in a few threads.

He's been sleeping lots, I've been trying to keep his mind entertained with training and tricks I think he's getting bored but he's a trooper he's being very good on his rest regime.

My poor baby... let's hope I don't have to mortgage the house to get him new hips!

[mokhahouse]

I am sorry to hear about Hugos diagnosis. I have a labrador, one year old with hip and elbow dysplasia. We had his elbow operated on and were looking at doing TPO on his hips. His surgeon decided against this, even though his pennhip scores were bad he is doing well with his hips and recent xrays showed no arthritis yet. We are fully prepared that his left hip is probably going to require a hip replacement one day. I would say in a dog of your size this would be the most likely option but does come with a big price tag. I am sad that Mokha will probably not have the life I had imagined. I set up a care credit account so we can pay for whatever he needs and then claim it from our insurance. If you have not got insurance since he is diagnosed it is too late and will be considered pre existing. I am really sorry that you are facing the things we are. It has been so stressful and heartbreaking to have to leave him home when our other lab gets to do things he cant.I just took him out for a short off lead frolic in the grass at the park for the first time in 7 weeks and he rolled in the mud. He was so happy to have some freedom.Good luck with your visit with the surgeon. My only suggestion would be dont make hasty decisions, it can be overwhelming when they explain things. Take a little time to process it all.

Edited August 19, 2009 by mokhahouse

[chiara]

Thank you for sharing poor Mokha both ED and HD, I hope he's doing well after surgery. I'm not even going to touch on insurance... it's all very confusing.

Hugo is quite 'lazy' I'm sure his condition has something to do with it but he's not very active and he's quite happy sleeping all day and night, he's been on exercise restriction for two weeks and he's doing better.

I'm really looking forward to talking with the surgeon I have so many questions!!

Did you get any pics of the mud roll?

[mokhahouse]

No pictures of the mud roll but my ute still smells like stinky mud. I don't know what was in that mud but it was bad. I felt so bad because Mokha hates a bath, funny for a labrador, and I had to give him one when we got home and spoil his day. I am glad Hugo is laid back kinda dog because if he does need surgery it will help with his recovery if he will rest. His surgery has gone really well and he doesnt limp any more and I am sure now he walks more normally it will be better for his back and hips. Please keep us updated on Hugo, I really feel for you, it is such a worrying time. Give him a big hug from me. :p

ETA Good idea to right down your questions, my surgeon laughed at my list but answered every one. That way you wont forget any.

Edited August 20, 2009 by mokhahouse

[Nekhbet]

what kind of pain medication is he on? I found my rottweiler ended up completely unable to walk on rimadyl/norocarp and they nearly signed his death warrant. He has shocking HD hips, barely any hip socket, 2 ED elbows, collapsed hock on one rear leg - it will be his second birthday in a week and he goes for a run around every morning. Franky they do little favours long term for the dog.

I went to see an excellent holistic vet who managed to get him off the pain killers in a month, going from a drugged up dog who we had to lift twice a day to toilet to walking on his own and regaining all that lost muscle mass from lying about. Through acupuncture, electro-stim therapy, chiro, massage and supplements he has outlived everyones expectations. That and his surgery quote of over $20,000 is way out of our league. I was also told that being almost 50kg they could not guarentee me long term success due to his size and the fact he is still growing. We also found that pain came when he had growth spurts and he recently just had ANOTHER puppy like growth spurt! He grew again up and gangly instead of starting to bulk out a little *sigh*

at 50kg at 1 year old he is hideously oversized. Strip every ounce of fat off that dog (not emaciated heheh) but get him thin and make sure he is on a good adult food. My rottie too is oversized he's almost the size of a small great dane! I find weight to be a factor in them moving about, your boy will find trying to move 50kg of dog up and down on bad hips is impossible. Drag him to the beach/river/dog pool and wade him in water just above his elbows to support his weight but not swimming.

this was taken about 6-7 months ago, you can see his bent back leg and how spread his elbows are ... yet he's still a happy bugger who goes on the occasional 2 hour walk around the cbd no worries.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Nekhbet

[MissLotus]

I am sorry to hear about Hugo. I hope everything turns out well

How does one notice that your dog may potentially have HD (before going to the Vet etc)?

Does pet insurance cover the cost of the surgery?

After surgery, do they live a normal pain free life? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm not too familiar with HD, but I know it's one of the things you have to look out for.

[chiara]

Thanks guys, It is a very worrying time, I'm actually looking forward to talking to the surgeon al least then I will have my options and we can start on making some decisions towards making our little boy better!

Wow Nekhbet what a beautiful boy you have he looks heaps like Hugo! it's good to hear that there is hope even without surgery, I would definitely consider alternative treatments he's already started acupuncture and he's doing better they also gave me different tablets which should be kinder on his stomach. Good lord $20.000 were they planning on operating with gold plated instruments!!

I Weight him yesterday and he's 45.6, he lost a couple of kg as he's now doing less exercise he's eating less, I don't think he can loose more... he's really tall and he's got muscle on the front because he puts all his weight on the front paws, he was quite skinny on the back legs I guess lack of muscle tone however I've noticed that improving now.

We took him to swim!!! hilarious he was a fish er dog out of water!!!!

Here is Hugo on Monday... You think he's a good weight?? Sorry it's not the best of pics

Mokhahouse thank you for the suggestion I will start a list, I'm really bad with things like that!

[chiara]

I am sorry to hear about Hugo. I hope everything turns out well

How does one notice that your dog may potentially have HD (before going to the Vet etc)?

Does pet insurance cover the cost of the surgery?

After surgery, do they live a normal pain free life? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm not too familiar with HD, but I know it's one of the things you have to look out for.

Hi,

Actually funny you ask, we took him to the vet in June and she said he probably injured his cruciate ligament, she never mentioned HD!

We had never considered insurance before but oh boy what a wake up call this was GET INSURANCE! so we did, but although HD was not mentioned I think it might be a fight to get anything out of them so I'm leaving that to the husband.

Signs of HD are a little tricky hence the vet thought it was a cruciate ligament injury the best tale tale sign would be lack of muscle tone in the back, Hugo looked like he had chicken legs there for a while but we are working on that!

Also if they become "lazy", HD appears when they are growing and gets worse during growth spurs as Nekhbet mentioned so if the dog becomes less willing to play and unwilling do stairs, I found Hugo would sleep a lot, and always laying down on his better hip, he also would take ages to get up from a laying down position and look out for the pops, when they get up the hip bones will make a pop noise.

You can also tell by looking at his walk, if the dog wiggles... sorry it's hard to describe but Hugo would walk that way and his back legs would look tense, like he was unable to bend them.

It's all symptoms I've encountered and read about, but every dog is different some have high pain thresholds others less and the symptoms change, if you suspect your dog might have HD the first thing is do Xrays that way you'll be sure, do it early as it's more manageable if they have not reached the point where they are in pain and loosing muscle tone.

I don't know how much the surgery is fingers crossed not too much I will let you all know, I've had a hard time finding that info online.

And follow your instinct I had a feeling it wasn't a cruciate issue and I was right so take your pet to a trusted vet or keep getting opinions, we took Hugo to 6 different vets finally we found a good one!

[Nekhbet]

I wouldnt get him any fatter then that. Diesels operations are for 2 elbows, 2 hips and reconstruct one leg that has bent over a few surgeries but I cannot do that to him. The poor bugger would spend months and months confined and in pain I think my dog has suffered enough in his short life.

definately swim him, diesel has the same problem of a bigger front end. Muscles help keep the dog up so swim swim swim! great low impact exercise! Diesel had a stiff walk but the acupuncture and massage we did at home helped loosen the muscles and allow the swelling around his joints to subside. Yup Diesel still has his snap, crackle and pop but it doesnt bother him too much. I like the fact he has a little pain sometimes as it makes him STOP and REST when his body is telling him too.

Diesel had parvo as a 5 month old pup so he has remained more gangly then your boy. He also suffers food allergies and stomach upsets so he is hard to get a nice coat and glean on him! So he eats Royal Canin adult Maxi and gets fish oil capsules, glucosamine/chondroiten/MSM human supplements and a herbal immune booster tablet. Did him wonders!

you can see his legs in this photo and his size

from July this year. He's thin but feeling better for it. He's more lean muscle now then he was before.

remember yours too is a puppy so there is only so much muscle he will gain, he's technically a baby heheh.

HD and ED needs good x-rays and a vet that can define it properly for you. ALthough when Diesel was x-rayed the poor vet was in tears and simply told me he was not going to make it, the problems were that glaringly obvious. It NEEDS x-rays and properly positioned ones.

[MissLotus]

Thanks Chiara for the insight. I have a 6 month old CKC and have been told they are known for developing HD, but I'd never really known what to look out for.

She's full of beans however she tends to run funny, kind of like bunny rabbit legs that the back legs lift off at the same time which got me a bit worried and sometimes she runs on an angel, but a few have reassured me that it's just them learning to run and developing their muscles etc (correct me if I have the wrong info).

Is it stupid to go to the vet and get them to x-ray their legs just to make sure all is in good order? How much does the x-rays cost these days? I would rather do that to both of my dogs just to give me a piece of mind. The part where you have mentioned that they take awhile to get up etc.. how do you draw the line from them being in pain to them just being plain lazy?

All the best for Hugo and I will be very interested if you can claim the surgery on pet insurance. I haven't taken any insurance yet due to the fact that some of their clauses are " we do not cover on known diseases/problems etc on particular breeds etc"

[Monah]

EEk!! Chiara, are you in Brisbane? Whoa re you seeing about the surgery!!!! It had better be Richard Mitchell from the sunny coast. He is the BEST orthapedic surgeon and will NOT recommend surgery on the look of an xray at all.

I ahve a dog with HD, born with it, one joint is nowhere near the hip and held on with ligaments and muscle, the other is not too bad. She was diagnosed at 5 months. We saw Richard several times. he likes to see how the dog is walking etc. and does not rely on xrays as many times an xray can look appalling, like ours do!, but the dog improves regardless.

We put things into motion, concentrated joint guard, ester C, fish oil, sardines, daily swimming (luckily we had a pool, but we dont now! crap) and of course being sensible. only 10 min walks, although she can now go and go and go....... Swimming does wonders for muscle gain and we noticed a huge difference.

My dog is 2 and half and from me thinking OMG, hip replacement, it has come to management and yearly checks on her progress. Eventually something may need to be done a lot later, but maybe not if we are lucky.

She is on previcox if she does feel pain, but from a daily pill, we are now only on it when needed, which has not been since last year!!!

Please be very conservative about surgery if possible, it is a last resort, and any decent surgeon should tell you that there can be countless complications and a certain percentage of ops. do not gain any benefit and it does not stop arthritis.

If my dog HAD to have it , of course I would take that path, but while I have options, no way!!!

I am really sorry to hear about your dog, it is just awful isn't it!?

Remember too, keep the weight down as low as you can, we keep our girl around 5kgs UNDER the lowest weight for her breed. It really really does help!

[Nekhbet]

there is another x-ray technique called PennHip invented by the university of pennsylvania in USA. My old boss was a Pennhip expert and used it in younger dog diagnosis of hip problems that may arise.

I only paid $300 for sedation and x-rays but they were done for a different vet and my boss and another 2 vets I worked with diagnosed for me.

[Monah]

Just noticed what nekhbet said about still growing. Yes!! that is a huge thing with HD. Many many dogs improve when they reach maturity even though the xrays look the same. Our girl was pretty bad at 12 months and we had to be so careful with her, she has improved such a lot and our personal vet and the specialist both mentioned that this is far from unusual, another reason they do not like to do surgery unless there is NO other optiion. Sometimes surgery IS the only thing to do, so keep an open mind about it, but if they want to do surgery, have a long list of questions ready, I would write them down, so you know EVERYTHING and all the pors and cons.

I think we were quoted $6000 for one hip when I asked what it would be. I thought that was pretty good. The consults we have had have all been really long, including going outdoors for lots of walks, and the MOST I've been charged is $130. for the initial consult, then a LOT less.

On the plus side too, Richard is better looking than George Clooney and has a lovely burmese surgery cat who meets and greets

[chiara]

MissLotus, I would definitely shop around and get insurance, as long as your pup has not been seen by a vet and you have not been told about HD by a vet then it's not considered a pre-existing condition, insurance is tricky that's why we didn't readily get it for Hugo but from what you've been mentioning I would get the insurance and when the waiting period is over go and get the x rays. Sometimes a vet can tell you if your dog has HD by looking at them and how they walk I would recommend a holistic vet they are the ones most hands on. Hugo's xray were $400, they took 4 pictures and sedation for Hugo (how in the world they managed to do xrays on a 50 kg rottie without putting him under I will never know!!!) however now he has to be seen by a surgeon who wants to do MORE xrays and an assessment which means he has to put Hugo under, this will be another $700.

There are videos on you tube featuring dogs with HD they show them walking and explain what to look for.

Well I used to think Hugo was plain lazy... He would stand at the bottom of the stairs, even if I had a yummy treat he would just look at me and think about it for a minute then he would get up. When he's laying down if he can get away with it he will just lift his upper body, like if there's a noise or something he will only get up if he really has to, when he does he will use his front paws to give him the lift. Something interesting our vet mentioned before he had x rays done was that she knew the hips were bothering him because there was heat emanating from the area... I thought she had lost the plot and I was ready to get out of there but sure enough she showed me and when you know where to put your hands it's true he was so hot on his hips! I was totally shocked.

Nebhbet, I think Diesel and Hugo are related! they look so much alike it's scary. Sound like poor Diesel had a rough start in life, it's good to see he's been taken care by someone who knows their stuff. Hugo always had a shiny coat... I can't take credit for that one! wow I'm not sure what all those meds are but I will ask the vet, Hugo is on Carprofen which we will switch to Inflavonoid soon and he has anti-inflammatory powder he also takes fish oil liquid which is something I did from when he was a pup because I read that it's good for them. I don't think he's gangly he looks very good and considering his issues I would give myself a pat on the back if I was you!

Monah, I am seeing Dr Moses at the VSS, it's convenient location wise. I will definitely consider both options, from looking at the x rays I would think his left hip can be managed conservatively but the right one is no where near what it should be. I have heard about this growth related issues, lots of people have mentioned that the dogs look really bad on x rays but they do well without surgery... definitely something to think about. The prices people have been mentioning are really different... I'm so curious to see what the surgeon will say tomorrow...

About diet I don't want to go off course here but the vet mentioned raw feeding will help his condition. Has anyone heard this before and what's your opinions on this take?

He currently gets fed twice a day one meal is small usually some yogurt and a few kibble biscuits and one cooked meal, meat/chicken/fish/turkey and veggies with kibble. He has puppy milk every other day and a raw bone a day.

[Monah]

Hi Chiara.

My vet did the xrays for my dog and the surgeon saw no need at all to do more.

Also, my girl's leg joint is not even NEAR her hip socket. byt the xray you would wonder why her leg just does not drop off And yet, here she is at nearly 3 yrs. and has improved greatly. She will never be fantastic of course, but she can even jump into the back of our 4wd!! although if I'm quick enough I do not allow her to do that. But she can if we allow it. So, don't give up hope :D

We had to see Dr Mitchell and travel from Hervey Bay to do it. I'd ask around (although I'm sure Dr Moses would probably be fine) as this is so important. You really want to see the right people. Maybe you could open a topic in general topics asking if anyone has used Dr Moses or Dr Mitchell??

He is at North Coast Vet Specialists, Tanawha Tourist Drive, near the deer park. www.NCVS.NET.AU

Other specialists I've used (for dermatology but I think there are orthapaedics there too but I dont know what they are like) are Queensland Vet Specialtists, Appleby Rd, Stafford Heights.

www.qldvetspecialists.com.au

I find word of mouth is a fantastic tool.

Wishing you all the very best, xxxxxx

[chiara]

Last night I got a phone call from Dr Moses, he had a look at Hugo's xrays and said he was happy with those pics and didn't need do do anymore. He also said that the HD was very severe and that the only surgical option is hip replacement and referred his colleague Dr Corfield as he is more experienced with hip replacements.

So this morning dear husband poor pup and I went to see Dr Corfield, he was very nice and explained things very well, he answered all our questions and got licked to death by Hugo who seemed to think the poor man was an ice cream!

Conclusion: Hugo is a good candidate for hip replacement, one at the time would be best so the worst hip will get done first. The recovery is approx 3 months and after that it's expected full recovery and normal life and no arthritis in old age either. Cost $6000 per leg.