Cosmolo Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Dexter has HD and ED in all 4 joints. He has been doing unbelievably well- absolutely no obvious soreness for the last 6 months or so (although he still can be a little stiffer to get up on cold mornings, after running etc) Its been at the point where you really wouldn't know he had a problem unless you were told. However today (after lying on cold concrete for about 1 1/2 hours last night- totally my fault, i didn't even think) he is very very sore. I have already spoken to the vet and we are going to give him non steroidals to make him a little more comfortable and he has had another cartrophen injection today (he gets them every 4-6 weeks) The strange thing is, his xrays and clinical signs showed that his right hip was the worse of the two and he always favoured that one when he was sore. But today he is significantly favouring his left hip. Is there any benefit in re x raying his joints to see whats going on and to see the progression of whats happening? Dexter has a really high pain threshold so i am wondering if he has just been putting up with pain for the last 6 months and the cold concrete last night has just meant he can't do it anymore? I didn't think the arthritis etc was progressing rapidly because he hasn't shown any sign of being sore but maybe it is and he's just been 'hiding it'. Is it possible teh left hip is degenerating quicker than the right? Should we find out whats going on? Will be talking to the vet again about it but just wanted to see if anyone else had re x rayed a HD or ED dog after diagnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I guess that it depends on what you need the information for. If you want the xray results just to confirm if your suspicions are correct - then I probably wouldn't and just keep managing him as best you can. When Chloe blew her cruciates she would also change her favoured leg, perhaps one gets sore from taking all the wear and tear for the other after a while? If you want the results to make a decision on his future, then yes I would consider having them done to see the extent of what you are dealing with. That's how I would look at it, hope it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Poor Mr Dexter. I'd give him a while to see if it was the laying on the concrete was the cause of the latest flair up. If he hasn't improved in the next few weeks then you could consider xraying again. But then again I think you have decided that surgery isn't the best option for Dexter. So if you were using xrays as a guide to how much longer he should be with you I would probably say don't use them like that. Yes the xrays might show further progression of his HD but xrays can't tell you how happy he is and how well he is coping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Thanks guys- its so hard puggy puggy because while i think he is 'happy' its very hard to tell knowing his pain threshold is so high- is he just really good at putting up with it/ hidining it or is he actually not in pain. Thats the reason why i was thinking about the x rays- becaue whether Dexter is sore or not doesn't seem to give the greatest indication of how he really is. We could consider the hip denervation surgery because they can do both at once and the recovery time is only a few days- but then it will make it even harder for us to know whats happening with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I guess I don't really see the point of x-raying again unless the vet recommends it. If Dexter has confirmed HD and ED, then the decision about what to do next should IMO be based on how much pain he's in, and you just can't tell that from a radiograph. How crappy the hips look on x-ray doesn't always directly relate to his quality of life, or how much discomfort he's feeling. I haven't heard about the denervation surgery before, but if it's intended just to reduce the amount of pain he's in, then if you're not managing his pain adequately with the NSAIDs I would definitely consider giving it a shot. If you're expecting to have to PTS at some point because of the pain, he might as well spend the last few years of his life as pain-free as possible. And I personally don't think it's necessary to keep him in discomfort or pain just to get a better indication of how fast his hips are degenerating - since at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how his hips are actually doing, since your decision to PTS will be related to how much pain he's in (not how the radiographs look). Those are just my thoughts without knowing the details of what the surgery entails, though, or what the side effects might be. I'd discuss it very carefully with your vet before making your decision. Also, is he on any dietary supplements for joint health? Sasha's blend, glucosamine/chondroitin, fish oil, etc? They're not miracle substances, but I think they can help some dogs. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavsRcute Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 MY girl has HD and something similar happened to her a couple of months age. She was playing with a new friend and then went to sleep on the pavers outside and then went for a car trip for about an hour. By the time I got her home she couldn't move her back leg. Her vet found some trigger points in the area. HHe worked on them and she was a good as gold the next day. He said that he sees it all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Thanks Staranais- you make some good points. We have discussed the denervation with a specialist when we met with him after Dex was first diagnosed. You're right that x rays won't tell us if he is in pain but sometimes he doesn't tell us either. Or like this time he doesn't show any sign and then bam, he looks cripple. Denervation is designed to reduce pain as it effectively kills the nerves in the hip joints so that the dog doesn't feel the pain anymore. No side effects- except that some dogs end up doing more damage because they don't feel the pain and don't know when to stop. He is not on regular non steroidals- we only use them if he is sore so he hasn't had any for at least 6 months. He has been on supplements and they made no difference- cartrophen and bowen are the two things that have helped and seem to have had him going fine until now. Thanks Cavsrcute- Dexter has bowen massage and will be having one asap so hopefully it will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldielover Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Agree with Staranais. I don't see the point? It's all about managing the symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Don't know if it's true for dogs, but for people having knee and hip replacements, the surgeon will often say... "The knee (or hip) was much worse than we thought from XRay". My dog had knees XRayed. Vet said had I not told him about the dislocating knee caps, you wouldn't know from either examination OR Xray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 I know you're right. I just feel like i need to know whats going on and whats going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Denervation is designed to reduce pain as it effectively kills the nerves in the hip joints so that the dog doesn't feel the pain anymore. No side effects- except that some dogs end up doing more damage because they don't feel the pain and don't know when to stop. He is not on regular non steroidals- we only use them if he is sore so he hasn't had any for at least 6 months. Yes I wondered if that would be the case. It does seem logical that if he can't feel any discomfort then he's going to be rougher on those joints, leading to faster degeneration. And of course you don't want his hips to degenerate faster than he has to, so if you can control his pain through other means, I can see why you'd want to delay the surgery for as long as you can. However, if he's in pain which you can't control through drugs, then I'd still say go the surgery. It's about quality of life, not quantity of life, sometimes. Hard decision - I'm sorry you're in the position of having to make the call. And yes, it can be very hard to tell when they're in pain sometimes. At school they tell us, if you're in any doubt whether an animal is experiencing pain, always opt on the safe side and give them pain meds. But of course for long term NSAID use, you've got to weigh up the side effects as well, which can sometimes also be unpleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) I know you're right. I just feel like i need to know whats going on and whats going to happen. ;) I wish that we could magically replace all of the wonky bits in the doggies we love. My ex foster girl Poppy breaks my heart with her wonky little leg. I wish I could take it away and give her a brand new perfect one just like any other pup her age. But like Dexter she doen't complain and is basically happy as larry. She will limp more when she has overdone playing but she has a good quality of life and is happy within herself. I think we sometimes worry more then the actual dog with the disability does. Edited August 13, 2009 by puggy_puggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Thanks Staranais. I just watched him try to walk (he has been sleeping on the couch all day) and he's still shocking. Part of me wants to throw a childish tantrum because its not fair- he's only 18 months old and he'd been doing so so well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Thanks Staranais. I just watched him try to walk (he has been sleeping on the couch all day) and he's still shocking. Part of me wants to throw a childish tantrum because its not fair- he's only 18 months old and he'd been doing so so well Oh he's handsome! Is there some staffy in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Not sure, he is a rescue. He's much bigger than a staffy- more bull arab like i think. This photo shows a bit better how big he is- don't have many of him standing up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 He is a little better today- non steroidals obviously helping i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 He is a little better today- non steroidals obviously helping i think. Glad to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) He is a little better today- non steroidals obviously helping i think. Edited August 14, 2009 by puggy_puggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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