JulesP Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Both my dogs are pretty clingy beasts. I can get lateral distance but can't get them to run out ahead. And I have tried and tried. What sort of handling system, if any, do you think suits dogs like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Lots of handler running Sorry, i'm not much help- migt be good to look at why they are clingy, if there is any issue with their confidence to independently negotiate an obstacle- i would start with some shaping at home. None of mine are clingy, even my otherwise fearful dog is happy to run, i mean bounce, ahead when we do agility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Hoho! They are both just clingy in general. I go to the park and let them off and they pretty much stay within 2 meters of me. I take them out into my paddock and after a brief bolt around they come and sit with me. Don't know why. They are related though. Haven't had dogs like this before! Even with sheep they prefer to not go to far from me. There are some positives, I get really right turns and they don't tend to take the wrong obstacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) You know me - complete novice! Susan Garrett suggests that Crate Games can help to build drive moving away from the handler. Also - I've heard that placing rewards (food, toy) away from the handler beyond a jump or two can also help. Rev the dog up, put the dog in a wait, place the food ahead beyond a jump, return to the dog....give the release and 'go' cue to allow the dog to drive to the food (or toy). Edited August 11, 2009 by Luke W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Yeah they will go out to an item but that is not translating to going out when there isn't an item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 One of the things I do with Kaos is a send where I started by standing next to him with him in a sit waiting for him to look forward then sending and throwing the toy (or you could use food). Then I would send and only throw the toy once he had already started moving forward. Once he could do it on the flat I added jumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Tried that Kavik. Also tried sending around objects. That is why I am interested in different handling styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) I'm not sure that the handling styles would be that different in regards to clingy dogs. I have to agree with Cosmolo - maybe you'll just have to run with them! The handling differences that I can see have to do more with turning the dog. Edited August 11, 2009 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) I have masters jumping and masters agility titles on Ness and she is pretty clingy. Also have an open jumping title and only need 1 more pass for her open agility. Simple solution run with the dog . If you can get lateral distance then open will be no problems for you either. The dog is very rarely required to move on ahead. Also build value for the obstacles. Get the dog to offer taking a jump and throw food if you want the dog to move away from you and they are only food and not toy driven. Edited August 11, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 You want to come and run with the dogs??? I am heaps older than you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) :D well if they aren't speedsters its not like you have to run super fast. You should still make novice and excellent times easily. Not to mention the fact I got my clingy dog around both a masters jumping course under time and a masters agility course under time with a sprained ankle so obviously couldn't really run - so it certainly can be done and you certainly don't need to be any great athlete . Not BCs but I know a couple of tollers who have their masters titles too who would be considered velcro and the handlers aren't overly athletic - well at least one of them isn't. I also don't mean this in an offensive manner (and I am not talking about Ptolomy's and her tollers in case she happens to see this) but more as the comparison you were making to me who is a young, reasonably athletic invidual. Edited August 11, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) Tried that Kavik. Also tried sending around objects. How long did you try it for? I think Kavik's suggestion is certainly the one I would recommend. The only different being that I would pair it with a word...mine is "go on". If your dogs will chase a ball, then pairing that behaviour with a cue is all you are doing. You need to start easy & gradually build it up. It takes time, like most things. Another game is to beat the dog to a reward object. Again, this is something you need to build up. Start from one pace away & increase distance. If they get there first they get it, if you beat them, they don't get it. That is why I am interested in different handling styles. All styles will have a method of teaching the dog to go ahead & I don't see the methods varying that much. The other thing to remember when you are actually running is that your own speed is not really what makes a dog drive forward, it is your focus...ie, you can run very fast but if your shoulders are pointing slightly towards the dog, it will not be as effective as running slower & mentally focussing on a point ahead. There are many many physically challenged handlers who are able to project lines to their dogs brilliantly. They may not be able to move fast, but they project direction very well. Not sure if that makes sense, it is hard to explain, much easier to demonstrate. Edited August 11, 2009 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 My send word for the exercise I mentioned is "Go!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 The main area that I run into problems is a rear cross. With getting around a course, they go as fast as I go! Which isn't super fast But you never know they might turn into speed freaks at a trial!! I am currently too embarrassed to enter one though. If they were a different breed it wouldn't worry me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Why do you need a rear cross if your never in a position where you are behind the dogs? Why not just use a front cross instead. I have never been in a situation with Ness where I have needed a rear cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) Because I am made to do them Because I have been told that there are times when I am going to have to do them. Ness do you have a link to a run of Ness'??? Edited August 11, 2009 by JulesP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Rock solid lead outs.. lead way out and run like hell. Many dogs do develop more distance with confidence over the obstacles and a dog with good tunnel suck can be very handy. Tunnels were the only obstacles Lil would send to and she'd go miles for one. She made her JDX with not a lot of distance handling. You also have to start taking risks and seeing how far they might go. I was a shocking "baby sitter" on courses and my dogs lack of distance tended to reflect that. I'm not making that mistake next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Me with a sprained ankle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Why do you need a rear cross if your never in a position where you are behind the dogs? Why not just use a front cross instead. I have never been in a situation with Ness where I have needed a rear cross. I used to think that RC were only appropriate when you were behind the dog, but have been convinced otherwise over the last 12 months. We did an exercise at the recent Ronda Carter seminar where we taught a RC from a standstill with one jump. Unlike a flowing natural RC that you can just do on course with little preparation before hand, it has to be taught to be effective, but now that we have trained it, it has become a very useful tool for a number of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Me with a sprained ankle: OT OMG I'm coming to SA...how on earth did you not get a refusal for that DW??? We sometimes get a refusal if the dog so much as looks at us while running in a straight line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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