How Do You Handle The Immediate Aftermath

[Jigsaw]

There was a bit of a tiff at training the other night during a heeling activity between two dogs (just noise, no contact) and I’ve been thinking on how the handlers reacted (one alpha rolled her dog, the other moved right away) and how the instructor reacted. Instructor asked the alpha roller to stop standing over the dog and put both dogs in a drop some metres apart and let them sit there a few minutes while the rest of us also did drops but away from the other dogs. It gave those involved time to settle and refocus and those of us not involved time to refocus our dogs (or at least that’s what I did!).

Most of the reading, study I’ve done deals with methods of avoiding this sort of situation. We spend time analyzing why an interaction may happen and why one may have occurred and how to prevent future interactions but I don’t recall any information about what to do when it does happen. This incident got me to thinking about what is the best way to handle this sort of thing if it does happen. Of course avoidance is the best thing and I’m really just thinking of a situation of lots of noise and little contact rather than a full on fight where injury may occur, but if and when a tiff does happen what do you think is the best thing to do with the dogs involved immediately after this sort of interaction? And would you do the same thing for a tiff at training as for one at a park or at home?

[~*Shell*~]

If it were me, and Zero had done the same thing - I would've pulled him out of the situation right away, calmed him down, checked him out for any problems and then tried to reintroduce him to the other dog. My way would be to walk him towards the other and at the slightest sign of excitement or fear, i would turn on my heel, tell him to come with me and then walk away. I would do this a few times to make sure he can be around the other dog - and then i would avoid the other dog (train at the other end of the line) for the next few weeks till i was sure that whatever issue that was between them was sorted out and I trusted them to be around eachother again.

Zero doesn't like one of the dogs at training - they tolerate each other when we're doing things like figure 8s and will happily walk past eachother if they're heeling or whatever but if i was to let Zero off a leash and his owner was to let the german shepherd off his leash, i think after a few minutes, they would end up in an altercation (even if it was just a whole lot of noise) because they're both quite dominant males.

Alpha rolling a dog is a stupid move - people see Cesar do it and think that's all he does and they're miraculously fixed. It's complete crap!

[Kavik]

I'm not as game as Shell

I would have pulled my dog out of the situation, taken some time to calm the dog (and me!) down and refocussed both of us and trained at the other end of the class.

[Aidan]

What I do depends on the dog. A bit of noise is a good thing, helps to avoid a fight. Dogs can make a bit of noise then learn to get along once they know what's up.

If the dog has learned to make noise to make the other dog go away then that is something that needs to be addressed - the dog might be anxious, or may not have learned how to respond appropriately to other dogs.

In any event, an alpha roll is the least productive approach. Adding stress isn't good.

[corvus]

I reckon you want to take them away from each other for a bit, but I think you have to be careful because if you broke the fight up before it nautrally came to an end (which I would always do if either or both dogs were on leash, btw) I suspect one or both dogs will figure they have unfinished business. I've seen tension from these things last for days between two dogs. They just stew until one snaps and they have another go at each other. It's scary and everyone ends up on edge waiting for the inevitable altercation. So if it were me, I would get them back together again as soon as they had settled a bit, but start quite a distance away and gradually get closer while walking them together. If that makes any sense. I would want to avoid either dog focusing on the other and trying to go over to them and aim to have them walking together comfortable enough to be able to ignore the other dog. That's all theory, though. It can take a long time for a stubborn, confident dog that was interrupted trying to make a point to let go of his unfinished business. It might be more practical to just keep them well away from each other for as long as possible.

[poodlefan]

Separate, de-escalate and refocus.

Discipline isn't always appropriate and handler aggression towards dogs is never helpful.

Most of the dog on dog incidents I've seen in agility have been created by handler inattention and lack of control.

The time to call your dog is when it's 2 feet from you and looking at another dog, not 20 feet from you and running flat out at others.

[huski]

I'd do the same as Shell

[luvsdogs]

I'm not as game as Shell

I would have pulled my dog out of the situation, taken some time to calm the dog (and me!) down and refocussed both of us and trained at the other end of the class.

This is what I would have done. Many years ago a similar thing happened at my dog club when I had my son's dog with me. Another dog the same age & with a behaviour problem. When I saw him coming towards us, I tried to get away but he was off lead & too quick. There was a lot of air snapping & both dogs were showing their teeth. Sooty lunged at ppl & dogs on the way back to the car. I never took her back.

My dog April had a problem with a lot of dogs & would lunge at some of them & if she was off lead during training & another dog was running she would run towards them but come back to me b4 making contact. I used to always go to the end of the line & away from the dogs she liked the least.

[alpha bet]

Most of the reading, study I’ve done deals with methods of avoiding this sort of situation. We spend time analyzing why an interaction may happen and why one may have occurred and how to prevent future interactions but I don’t recall any information about what to do when it does happen. This incident got me to thinking about what is the best way to handle this sort of thing if it does happen.

I can understand where your coming from as it is true that mostly training methods are about avoiding confrontations. There is not a great amount of information about how to handle the actual incident. Unfortunately 'training classes' (assuming you mean obedience/ability style classes) are not the ideal place to deal with these situations.

Generally most instructors are not experienced enough in these situations to handle it one to one let alone in a class environment. Trainers can attend courses and study but it is not the same as hands on experience. mostly it is a case of 'learning from experience' which is not ideal.

Personally I love having the chance to learn more. I run socialising classes where we often have dogs who show aggression to others and we like to deal with the confrontation rather than just using avoidance. Hence, I am always looking for trainers or speakers who may have different options so I was really pleased when last year the APDT Conference brought out an expert on handling dog aggressive dogs from America.

She discussed how she runs her classes and showed videos - mostly all she showed was how she uses avoidence techniques and a form of slow group walking which she referred to as a 'prison walk'. One video she showed was with a client with an approx 15 month old GSD that was starting to show aggression. She told us she took the dog to a private room where they could let it off to move around and at one point the GSD "muzzle punched" her. Her solution was to have the owners put the dog on lead and she finished the session.

She blamed the owners for the dogs behaviour in one breath but then explained that these people where prepared to do anything to help this dog (such as the wife had changed jobs to allow her to be home more). We were also informed that the dog had been attending classes with her twice a week since the dog was 8 weeks old.These people had probably paid an awful lot of money for the training but in 13 months this 'expert' wasn't able to help.

Needless to say, I was disappointed with this 'American Expert'. Luckily tho they had another speaker, Roger Abrantes (from Denmark) who was fantastic. He spoke about dominance-aggression (amongst other things) and was entertaining and witty. He has also written a few books that give a good hindsight into dog behaviour. Well worth buying and reading......

There are different forms of aggression which require different approaches. Cesar Milan shows a technique that works for some situations, avoidance can work in others. Of course, lots of techniques inbetween.

Best of luck and if you find anything interesting - let me know.

[Jigsaw]

Thanks for the answers everyone. I think Poodlefan summed it up pretty succinctly!

Alpha Bet - had never heard of the "prison walk" before reading your post and after I read your post I later caught up on another dog training group and here was the prison walk mentioned again! This poster explained that the handlers walked slowly and with a slouch and this was to calm everything down before the class for reactive dogs started. Although for this poster the classes hadn't worked as her dog was still reactive!

[Quickasyoucan]

Separate, de-escalate and refocus.

Discipline isn't always appropriate and handler aggression towards dogs is never helpful.

Most of the dog on dog incidents I've seen in agility have been created by handler inattention and lack of control.

The time to call your dog is when it's 2 feet from you and looking at another dog, not 20 feet from you and running flat out at others.

How come PF always puts it so well.

I have come to see how important timing is and the deafness that arises when your dog is in full drive of any sort (unless of course you have mastered the 100% recall! ).