Traditional Vs Clicker Method.

[luffy4688]

Hi, I'll be getting a 8 week old Welsh Pembroke Corgi in 2 weeks and I intend to train it straight off the bat.

I've been reading a bit about the Clicker training method. I hope someone can explain a little how those the clicker method works and should I start off with that or the traditional way of training it?

Thank you.

[Kavik]

The clicker is a tool which allows you to capture the exact moment the dog does a behaviour, like a camera taking a photo. It is very helpful for teaching complex tasks which can be broken down into small increments, and shaping the dog's behaviour teaches the dog to work out for itself the behaviour you would like. Clickers and marking behaviours is very helpful when teaching the dog to interact with objects such as targets.

It is not a whole training method in itself though. Many of the simpler basic everyday commands you would want to teach a puppy (sit, drop, coming when called, stand) do not require a clicker. Many people use a clicker for some things and other methods for other commands.

[Brad Griggs]

Great post Kavic! I envy your ability to be so succinct;)

I would like to add though that whilst learning about clicker training you should also do some research about the use of positive and negative punishment before you begin. This will give you a more thorough understanding of the basics of operant conditioning (learning) and will add balance to your training. Invariably puppies require some form of punishment at some stage, so it is best to learn how to guage what is appropriate and under what circumstances, etc.

If you are seeking a well produced, balanced, scientifically sound, highly educational dvd to help in your learning then you should seriously consider looking into the Canine Training Systems range, in particular the Ivan Balabanov series. The Australian distributor for this range is Forell Dog Products, and they can be reached via [email protected], or call Tonia direct on 0422636489.

Hope this is helpful.

[Guest Tess32]

Clicker training is great for pups, they learn to start offering behaviours which will make later training much easier.

You need to condition the clicker before you use it - this means you have to associate the clicker with a reward - usually food. You do this really simply - click, treat the dog, click, treat the dog, until you can see that the dog expects food after the click. The dog then first learns that a click means a treat is coming. Eventually it will learn what the clicker "means", and this is "what you just did is correct". The clicker is just a bridge, it allows you to communicate to the dog that it has done what you want immediately, rather than fumbling with food etc.

You do not need a clicker, you can always do the exact same thing with a word, 'yes' for eg. Just depends what you find easier.

Personally I think it's better to do both - you always have a word, and yet if you need to teach something more complex, you can use the clicker.

Puppies catch on very quickly.

The clicker is only used in the learning phase, eventually you will fade it out and most people will then switch to only intermittently rewarding the dog.

[alpha bet]

Clicker training is fun and you can certainly start your pup off with the clicker right from the start.

It is difficult to learn how to use from a written description tho - much better if you can get some dvd's or someone who is competent with it to show you how.

An interesting sideline about clickers: There are some initial studies being done that indicate that the Clicker has an advantage over the use of voice.

The sound that the clicker makes would appear to register in the brain much quicker than anything else. Hence the reason the clicker is often successful when training with non-domesticated animals.

From a personal note: these study results do seem to relate well with my own observations. One thing I have found is that some dogs (even tho they have had no previous experience with clickers) do seem to be sensitive to the sound of the clicker. In fact often I have found these dogs or even puppies to be initially suspicious of the sound that the clicker makes.

With these clicker sensitive animals I prefer to not use a clicker until they have developed more confidence and then perhaps introduce a clicker if the client desires.

Must say I am looking forward to reading on more studies into the clicker.

So have lots of fun with your new pup - you can certainly use clickers along with any 'tradition' methods.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Hi, I'll be getting a 8 week old Welsh Pembroke Corgi in 2 weeks and I intend to train it straight off the bat.

I've been reading a bit about the Clicker training method. I hope someone can explain a little how those the clicker method works and should I start off with that or the traditional way of training

By traditional do you mean using your voice to mark a behaviour and then reward it?

[luffy4688]

Hi, I'll be getting a 8 week old Welsh Pembroke Corgi in 2 weeks and I intend to train it straight off the bat.

I've been reading a bit about the Clicker training method. I hope someone can explain a little how those the clicker method works and should I start off with that or the traditional way of training

By traditional do you mean using your voice to mark a behaviour and then reward it?

Yes, that's what I meant. ;)

Big thanks to all the advices. It's been helpful.

Edited August 7, 2009 by luffy4688

[helen]

Have a look at this website under clicker training - http://www.k9events.com - will tell you everything you need to know. Also has a link to an excellent free puppy book by Ian Dunbar - After You Get Your Puppy - in the puppy pages

[Piri]

Hi, I'll be getting a 8 week old Welsh Pembroke Corgi in 2 weeks and I intend to train it straight off the bat.

I've been reading a bit about the Clicker training method. I hope someone can explain a little how those the clicker method works and should I start off with that or the traditional way of training it?

Thank you.

Another great sight with plenty of clicker info is http://www.clickertraining.com/

Also do a search on youtube there are lots of great videos that have really helped me also do some research on Classical conditioning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Autbf9z this may help.

I use a clicker to shape most behaviours,then once the behavior is learn t add the cue and fade out the clicker and use voice.As Tess pointed out the first thing you need to do is "program" your dog to understand that a click means reward.For a week or 2 just click treat CT,CT 20x a day and soon youll have a dog that knows click means reward.An important thing is every time you click the dog gets its reward,every time even if you make a mistake,its like a promise you make to your dog.Clicker training is great fun ;)

[Lablover]

Remember what you click is what you get/accept. So many people click too slow, or for unwanted responses or feed after the dog has moved for the reward.

I think the main benefit of a clicker is it teaching good timing for positive reinforcement and punishment (if used later on).

[Kelpie-i]

Not too much damage can be done when using a clicker...even if you happen to click too slow initially and/or subsequently reward the wrong behaviour. After all...I'm sure even the pro's got it wrong sometimes initially.

Far more damage to be had with a badly timed physical correction IMO. :D

[Aidan]

Not too much damage can be done when using a clicker...even if you happen to click too slow initially and/or subsequently reward the wrong behaviour. After all...I'm sure even the pro's got it wrong sometimes initially.

Far more damage to be had with a badly timed physical correction IMO.

Initially? I think I still get it wrong almost as often as I get it right! That's why I cringe when I hear of people using e-collars when they haven't even demonstrated a basic ability with positive reinforcement.

[W Sibs]

I've only started learning how to use the clicker and obedience school. It's an interesting tool. I can see why it's easier to train a puppy using it though.

But, all Charlie knows with the clicker is.. i click it, he gets a treat. If, we accidently click it, he will run from wherever he is and sits waiting patiently for a treat.

We are still learning...

[Staff'n'Toller]

But, all Charlie knows with the clicker is.. i click it, he gets a treat. If, we accidently click it, he will run from wherever he is and sits waiting patiently for a treat.

I hope he's not clearing out your fridge at the time.

[Piri]

I've only started learning how to use the clicker and obedience school. It's an interesting tool. I can see why it's easier to train a puppy using it though.

But, all Charlie knows with the clicker is.. i click it, he gets a treat. If, we accidently click it, he will run from wherever he is and sits waiting patiently for a treat.

We are still learning...

Thats a fantastic start if hes doing that.Make sure you keep paying the click no matter what.When youre using the clicker to capture just imagine it as the shutter of a camera,when you click you are taking a photo of what you are rewarding,if that makes sense? treat as soon as possible after the click,ive read that you are also reinforcing everything that happens from the click to the treat,(has anyone else heard this??)Also when you click it ends the behaviour,so your dog is free to stop what its doing to get the treat dont use the click as a signal to keep going.Another thread mentioned Morgan Spectors book Clicker Training for Obedience,i got and still do,so much from this book, highly recommended.

[Aidan]

treat as soon as possible after the click,ive read that you are also reinforcing everything that happens from the click to the treat,(has anyone else heard this??)

Yes I have heard that, but it is not quite correct. Still good advice though, to treat as soon as possible after the click.

I've never seen a PROBLEM caused by inattention to what is happening after the click, nothing that made me think "Gee, I wish I'd headed that one off at the pass". More "OK, need to tidy that up a little" instead.

Most people should just pay attention to making sure that what they click is actually increasing.

[Lablover]

Not too much damage can be done when using a clicker...even if you happen to click too slow initially and/or subsequently reward the wrong behaviour. After all...I'm sure even the pro's got it wrong sometimes initially.

Far more damage to be had with a badly timed physical correction IMO.

True.

Looking at the clicker trainers, NRM I feel most often than not are poorly applied and confusing for the dog.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Lablover

[luffy4688]

Thanks for all the advices so far. Finally got Bailey 3 days ago and he's been a handful. In terms of housebreaking, mistakes are reducing by the day. Only 1 mistake today so far He'll be attending puppy pre school next weekend. at about 9 weeks plus. Should I start clicker charging him now or should I wait for a trainer to properly demonstrate it to me during puppy class?

[helen]

Must puppy pre school classes do not use a clicker for their training, so I would just follow what the instructor is doing and start with clicker training after that.