Midnight87 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) hey all!! i've recently got a 7 month old kelpie x from the RSPCA and although i've had experience training whippets (have 2), I realise that kelpies learn differently from whippets.. she's really smart and has learned to sit in an hour session but since then i've been wondering how else to train her.. she has really really AWFUL leash manners.. i'd love to be able to get her up to advance standard and even some tricks and stuff (my whippets think they are too good for tricks.. lol) but i'm not sure if there's a specific way to train kelpies.. also, is there like a minimum age to start training? i heard from someone that its easier once they've kinda calmed down (so about the 1 and half year mark??) she's easily distracted by my other dogs.. lol.. would LOVE some advice especially from those who own similar sort of breeds.. oh and this is a pic of Faith we think she may be crossed with a sighthound of some kind Edited August 6, 2009 by Midnight87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) Basic training is the same for any dog Training can begin at a few weeks old- At present she will be behaving like the teenager she is, I expect- plus she will be still settling in . Have a browse thru the training forum....for different suggestions. main thing is , if you want her to be calm... YOU must be calm, and make sure she has rules which you enforce... lots of controlled exercise(not just free running), and time when you make her stop and relax..either by crating, or having her under control on leash while you watch TV or whatever... all good habits to learn just checked the photo out~ looks a bit like a dobe cross to me......... what an expressive face! Edited August 6, 2009 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleBoys2 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I am sure my friend kelpiesrule will post you some pointers when she is next on DOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Faith is very pretty Some of the basics are the same across breeds and disciplines - handy first things to teach are a good recall, drop, sit. Does she like toys and/or food? Building up her enthusiasm for these will make training easier and more fun as you can then use them as rewards for correct responses. There are many fun things you can do with Kelpies - obedience, agility, flyball, dancing with dogs, herding. If you let us know where you are located and what you are interested in we can point you in the direction of some clubs. It is easier to train at first with less distractions, so when you are training one dog it might be an idea to put the other dogs away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight87 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 persephone: could you elaborate a little on controlled exercise?? i've been crating her and stuff but omg!! she's worse than my whippets with crating (she was a stray though so i don't know her history).. RSPCA had her for a month and was going to put her down in the next few days before I got her. a doberman cross?? hmm... never thought of that.. she's got a very slim-ish figure.. will have to get a better pic soon.. beagleboys2: would LOVE for your friend to post pointers on another note, with finding out what she's crossed with, when she plays with my two whippets and stuff her fur kinda rises but only in one line (just like a ridgeback fur line back thingy) and I've been wondering what breed does that.. P.S. she has a sock fetish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 By controlled exercise I mean walking on leash... and NOT sniffing, toileting, etc unless you allow it This way her brain gets a workout as well as her muscles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) I realise that kelpies learn differently from whippets.. They have different temperaments, slightly different drives, but learn pretty much exactly the same way. Not Whippets or Kelpies, but this video features Aussie Shepherds and a Greyhound trained the same way. If you think sighthounds aren't great at tricks, check out what this greyhound can do! About 4 minutes in, skipping, turning somersaults, walking on FRONT legs, bouncing like a kangaroo - it's amazing: http://www.positivepetzine.com/jay_sisler Edited August 6, 2009 by Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serket Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 That video is absolutely amazing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight87 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) my whippys must be either too lazy or stuck up then... rofl.. nah.. i'm not too good at training tricks because I don't know how to start i'm starting clicker training though so maybe thats a good start btw, with clicker training.. house is quite echoey even if i go into a room.. now, will this affect the other two dogs while I'm training one?? wouldn't want desensitization to happen Edited August 6, 2009 by Midnight87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiechick Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Awww - what a great face ! I would recommend getting a copy of the book 'Kelpie Basics and Beyond' available by mail order from this site A lot of really valuable information about understanding the kelpie temperament, plus the training advice would be great for any breed, not just kelpies. In general, most kelpies respond very well to positive training and love to be challenged mentally. They are great problem solving dogs and love to have a 'job' to do - agility, herding, trick training- the list goes on. Mine are both clicker trained and this worked very well with them. Good Luck with your training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 btw, with clicker training.. house is quite echoey even if i go into a room.. now, will this affect the other two dogs while I'm training one??wouldn't want desensitization to happen It won't be a problem. Just be clear about who is getting the click, which is not hard, just don't give a treat to the dog who you didn't click. They soon figure out the one who is getting the attention from you is the one who is being clicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoo Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 You should PM Kelpie-I, She is an avid Kelpie lover as well as a trainer, she may be able to give you some solid advice and help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 That's a cool video, Aiden! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I use seperate clickers for each dog and for the horse. My Whippet LOVES working and tricks, maybe she is broken ! Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Kelpies Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 hey all!! i've recently got a 7 month old kelpie x from the RSPCA and although i've had experience training whippets (have 2), I realise that kelpies learn differently from whippets.. she's really smart and has learned to sit in an hour session but since then i've been wondering how else to train her.. she has really really AWFUL leash manners.. i'd love to be able to get her up to advance standard and even some tricks and stuff (my whippets think they are too good for tricks.. lol) but i'm not sure if there's a specific way to train kelpies.. also, is there like a minimum age to start training? i heard from someone that its easier once they've kinda calmed down (so about the 1 and half year mark??) she's easily distracted by my other dogs.. lol.. would LOVE some advice especially from those who own similar sort of breeds.. oh and this is a pic of Faith we think she may be crossed with a sighthound of some kind Hi Midnight and congratulations on rescuing Faith. I hope you have a lot of fun together. I read your message last night and gave myself some time to think about a reply. Here goes ... I find Kelpies easy to train once you get past the highly distracted adolescent stage and once you convince them that you are part of the team and good things happen when they work with you. With a rescue it's hard to know where your dog has been or what has happened to her, but if she is like a lot of young Kelpie crosses that end up in shelters it could be that she was played with as a small puppy but once she began to outgrow the cute stage and started jumping on people, mouthing etc. she was banished to a back yard until the level of barking, diggging etc. got too much for the owners and neighbours so she was dumped in a shelter. If she was living in solitary confinement with no training or stimulation, she will have awful leash manners and be easily distracted by other dogs. Kelpies were bred for to do a job with little or no commands. The kind of dog that was bred to have the initiative to find 1000 sheep in a bush paddock, bring them together and move them through a series of paddocks and then into yards while the owner drives from gate to gate in a ute or on a motor bike, isn't going to be fascinated by walking at heel watching a handler. She will be stimulated by movement and will find it hard to pay attention to you when walking on leash. Do you have a safe place to exercise her off leash? Walking at heel may well be the hardest thing to teach her and it would be good if she could get the zoomies out of the way before you try to teach her anything. I've seen a number of Kelpies coming to obedience clubs but sadly many dropped out as block heeling was so boring for them and they hated being constantly corrected and ended up by shutting down. The handlers that were able to make a game of heeling and kept their dogs interested had great success and went on to earn titles. I haven't seen many Kelpies doing well at novice level but those that made it to UD were very successful. Agility and tracking (and of course herding) are great activities for Kelpies. They love tricks and any active games. They don't need huge amounts of exercise but need lots of things to think about and just thrive on being with you. You don't need to be harsh but you will need to be super consistent. Kelpies are quite sensitive and love to know that they are doing a good job. You will have to find out what your dogs finds rewarding - toys, food or just you doing a "happy dance." My dogs respond to all three at different times and situations. I would never attempt to give them food when doing agility or working stock but when teaching sits, stays etc. I've found clicker training really works well. Just shut the door and ignore all the other dogs who are trying to convince you they should be given treats when they hear a clicker. They'll soon understand the routine. You will need to help Faith learn self control and to understand that here are times when she needs to sit quietly and not act like a hooligan. Crates are a great invention, but you can also tie her to a (solid) piece of furniture while you'r sitting at a computer or reading. She will learn that being with you doesn't always have to mean fun and games. I found this article by Turid Rugas really helpful in understanding young dogs. I'm not sure where it originally came from but here are some of her ideas. "Once the puppy period passes at around 4 to 4.5 months of age, the adolescence begins. It consists of several stages and lasts up to around two years of age. Sometimes it takes more time, other time less. Young dogs are like young humans: • They like action and speed. • They get easily bored when nothing is happening. • They have no self-control at all. • They cannot control themselves when something exciting happens. Like kids who see a firetruck or dogs who smell a rabbit. • Their ability to concentrate over any longer period of time is poor. While kids ´forget´ to come right home after school, the dog forgets what you asked him to do ten seconds earlier. They prefer to be with others the same age or with similar interests. • They will rather play that do other things. • They find cramming boring and it takes the fun out of learning. Young dogs need training, but in short and fun sessions so that they are able to stay focused and not get tired of it. Their needs of activities can be met with short and easy training sessions on an simple agility course, recall training, taking walks in the woods, being with other dogs and play off leash, and so on. • They gradually need to learn self-control, but only little at a time. That´s why we do things stepwise, like expecting the dog to remain gradually longer in exercises like ´sit-stay´ - 2 seconds, 5 seconds, 10 seconds, etc. • Be considerate when the dog is loosing his concentration - allow the dog to get a break in order to get his focus back, help him to continue the training. • Let the adolescent dog meet with other dogs - Important! • Avoid long training sessions, repeating the same exercise over and over, punishment, and so on, so that the dog doesn´t get tired and fed up with training. • Socialization - Social training with people and animals is important. Teach the dog to deal with all kinds of situations in all kinds of environments. • Practice fun activities like tricks, retrieving, searching, tracking, etc." This wasn't written with Kelpies in mind but it certainly sounds like the young Kelpies that I have known. It probably shows that young dogs of all breeds have similar needs. Good luck with Faith. I hope you'll tell us more about her and how you get on with your training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I think the others here have pretty much given a good summing up of the kelpie breed. ;) Kelpies are bred to think for themselves, so sometimes they may do things that are totally against what you want them to do...because they think they know better. Seriously, the Kelpie is not a dog for everybody but a well trained, socialised and confident Kelpie (or 2 or 3 :p ) is a dream to own. Set clear rules and boundaries and stick to them.....no grey areas. I think this goes for all dogs. Kelpies do not take to aversive methods very well....in fact many shut down very quickly if corrected or over corrected (physically). This is probably due to the fact that we are seeing more "softer" temperamented Kelpies these days as opposed to those who are a little more harder in temperament. I think many of the arrogant types stay on the farms to work the cattle There is no secret when training a Kelpie, apart from start young and continue forever...they love to learn so keep their minds busy with games, obedience and sport as 4kelpies pointed out. They do have a tendency for obsessive compulsive behaviours....these occur mainly due to early imprinting during the critical socialisation period, or later in life due to boredom. My only advice is to enrol in a good obedience school and be consistent with your training. If the methods are harsh, leave and find another school. Kelpie's are like playdough as they can be moulded into anything therefore you don't need harsh method to achieve this. Good luck to the both of you and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight87 Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 thanks you guys/gals!! I've been training Faith (that's her name) myself for a bit.. I've had to train Ashlyn to be my assistance dog so I do know the methods of basic training etc. She's learnt sit and drop and I'm making sure she knows them well before moving on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fainty_girl Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 also, is there like a minimum age to start training? i heard from someone that its easier once they've kinda calmed down (so about the 1 and half year mark??) she's easily distracted by my other dogs.. lol.. would LOVE some advice especially from those who own similar sort of breeds.. She looks like a beautiful dog . My kelpie X Tilly was about 8 months old when I got her and she was a stray too. She is about 1.5 now and isn't calm yet...I think i'll be waiting about another 14 years for that to happen . She is relaxed, content and very happy at home, but is full on to take out (both on and off the leash). I suppose my tip would be to find out what rewards Faith values and use it when you are training her. Tilly has a much loved squeaky ball that she will do anything for. I don't let her play with it all of the time and use it to reward her, get her attention and distract her. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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