Qualifed Dog Trainer Vs Dog Trainer

[wayrod]

We hear and see the term "Qualified Dog Trainer" in advertisements, websites, threads and so on. So what makes a Qualified Dog Trainer?

Is it by having a number of years of experience?

Is it by completing a course, and if so, does a two day course count?

Is it having a Certificate in dog training?

Is it having a Certificate that is approved by the National Qualification Framework?

Is it by belonging to an organisation that says you are a Qualified Dog Trainer? If so, what gives this organisation ability to give you the title of Qualified Dog Trainer?

Is it being recognised by your State Government under the terms of a relevant Act of Parliament?

I am not asking about good or bad dog trainers, or good or bad courses, but to gain insight as to the perception in peoples minds of what sort of qualifications or experience should a dog trainer have to be known as a "Qualified Dog Trainer".

[poodlefan]

I think its about results. How successfully a trainer can train people to train their dogs or help people overcome difficulties with them.

I know folk from a range of different backgrounds - some are great and some ... aren't.

Years of experience or formal learning don't guarantee a result either way IMO. You can be the best dog trainer in the world but if you want to train people, then that's a different ballgame. Sadly, that fact is not recognised by all trainers.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

There are two organisations that are generally recognised in Australia for dog training:

DELTA - http://www.deltasocietyaustralia.com.au/

NDTF - http://www.ndtf.net.au/new/index.html

Anyone teaching at a club should have at least done classroom, tests and an exam (written and practical) and aspirant instructing with an experienced instructor. That's how they did it when I went through anyway.

Ultimately it's going to be a personal judgement more than a judgement about qualifications. Qualifications matter, but like legal qualifications, not everyone who is qualified is a good option. Some specialise in different things, some have different experience, and some are just useless.

If I were going to see a trainer, I would want to see them work a dog first. I would also want recommends from people I trust. If that the trainer had no formal quals, but had significant achievements in areas I was interested in help with, the lack of quals wouldn't bother me.

Edit: Also, years of experience don't wash with me if I can't see results. It's not so much time served as distance travelled that matters, if that makes sense.

Edited August 3, 2009 by SkySoaringMagpie

[Aidan]

This doesn't answer the question, but I think a good dog trainer should know when to refer to a qualified vet or veterinary behaviourist simply because they know what to look for medically if that may be contributing to the behaviour problem.

How to recognise someone's expertise is very difficult. Referrals are good, but plenty of hacks can and do get referrals. I'm not always impressed by results unless they are longer term. There are lots of "quick fixes" in dog training that can be misconstrued as results. Even worse, trainers who can sell their mumbo-jumbo so well the client becomes enamoured with them and raves about what they have learned, despite the fact that nothing has really changed except their perspective.

What the client wants comes into it. Square pegs and round holes and all that.

[Staranais]

I guess technically a "qualified dog trainer" is just someone with a qualification in dog training, from any organisation.

I think the real issue is that a qualified trainer isn't always a competent trainer. In my experience, qualifications don't always seem to bear much relationship to competence. So for me, qualifications from a respectable organisation are nice, and I guess they're good in that they indicate that the trainer probably had some familiarity with the conventions of mainstream dog training instead of just making up their own strange system after reading one book.

But results, testimonials, and the vibe I get when talking to the trainer and seeing them interact with my dog, that's what really counts to me in the end.

[wayrod]

I guess technically a "qualified dog trainer" is just someone with a qualification in dog training, from any organisation.

So who gives that organisation the authority to say that you are a qualified dog trainer.

[Kavik]

The dog training industry is not regulated, so you don't HAVE to have qualifications.

As stated previously NDTF and Delta are the organisations that have recognised courses. However someone could do a course through a franchise like Bark Busters and say they are qualified as they have technically done a course and training to be a trainer.

[Tambaqui]

I am currently doing obedience now, but I used to do obedience in the old days when I was a young kid and I took it seriously as well (Compared to some I've seen, but some kids training dogs are great! But I think often that Instructors should try and assist them as well like they did for me when I trained my whippet 10 to 15 years ago).

Quite frankly, I am disappointed in the training methods today at the same club I attend and at times I get a bit annoyed at the lack of thoughts for the handler/trainers and the dogs.

The biggest issue I have is that some instructors do not give you a chance to be able complete the command, and some that takes a while such as the drop command or the recall, and sometimes it just goes way too quick!

At my obedience club, some instructors play the game "Simon said", Great game definitely, but it irks me and my dog when it becomes a big joke or a game to the point that your dog is sick to death of repetitive task (Like right about turn like 20 times!)"

At times, they'd be like "down your dog... forward... halt.... forward... down your dog" all within a minute too!

I'm sorry if I sound venting or annoyed, but if anyone becomes Instructor or Qualified Dog Trainer, they should be considerate and take the class in a way that will benefit everyone in the class or private session. They also have to remember that some dogs can only do so much, and constant repetitive action will only just drive them nuts and not want to work anymore, especially if they cram a whole lot of ridiculous command within a span of a few minutes.

If anyone wishing to be a trainer, they must be able to demonstrate that they can instruct a handler or a class and be able to ensure it is ran efficiently that every owners and their dog are given a chance to complete a command and a quick break to reward their dogs after a successful task.

[Staranais]

Remember that (depending on where you train) many of the trainers may just be unqualified, unpaid volunteers, Tambaqui.

[Tambaqui]

Remember that (depending on where you train) many of the trainers may just be unqualified, unpaid volunteers, Tambaqui. :p

*nods*, yup most definitely! I definitely had that in mind, and out of all of them, only about 3 or 4 of those from experience I had great sessions from, but at the end of the day, there is always room for improvement and I do recoginise that some are still learning and picking up new skills.

I am just nitpicky ! Some I am like "I love your training session, but I didn't like the tiny quirk you did!"

But it bound to happen in different classes, but the one I had last week for my class was absolutely great! Apparantly according to mum, he was one of those that still stuck around since the days I trained my whippet!

But at the end of the day despise the quirks, I absolutely love training with my dog and alway go back week after week!

[alpha bet]

Another thought is what about the idea of a Qualified Dog Trainer Vs Professional Dog Trainer.

There are plenty of people who have done the delta course or the ndtf course but dont work and make a living as a dog trainer. After all these courses have only been operating for a relatively short time.

Someone operating as a Professional has invested time and money to purchase equipment, have insurance, advertising, lease a location and then hope to build a big enough clientele to actually make a profit to live off. Hence enough to at least be a taxable income. I feel most trainers (qualified in whatever way) are operating more as a hobby trainer which under the tax guidelines hobby income under about $6,000 per year is not necessarily subject to tax nor can you claim expenses.

Most people working at club level are really meant to be instructors. Meaning that they guide the membership through the club training program.

Years ago at clubs the instructors where just members who had worked thru the ranks. One of the first clubs to develop a system for training instructors was the GSDC. They were the only breed club to actually run obedience training. You had to attend lectures at VCA and work with other instructors as well as sit a written paper, then you instructed as a probationary trainer to help you develop the technique of handling people and show that you could follow the club training system.

What disappoints me with the information I have seen on various courses that are offered, there doesnt seem to be much emphasis placed on the teaching skills that are required. After all most of the work is about showing/guiding the owners to make the changes to improve the dogs behaviour.

just my view anyway.....

[dee lee]

To further cloud the waters- what makes a qualified behaviourist? Im not talking about a vet behaviourist.

[Nekhbet]

a vet behaviorist still has to do courses and practical understanding of dog behavior. Frankly I have seen a couple of them at work and was far from impressed at their practical application of dog behavior techniques.

DOg behavior is different from training. a dog can be trained yet behaviorally it can be far from ideal. I work more on behavior before I deal with formal obedience training as you cannot have one without the other.

[Aidan]

a vet behaviorist still has to do courses and practical understanding of dog behavior. Frankly I have seen a couple of them at work and was far from impressed at their practical application of dog behavior techniques.

Same, but when you think it is prudent to have medical tests done or suspect that medication may need to be prescribed then a vet behaviourist is your best bet.

[Lablover]

We hear and see the term "Qualified Dog Trainer" in advertisements, websites, threads and so on. So what makes a Qualified Dog Trainer?

One who reads (as dogs don't lie -trust what we see) - to teach dogs to their/owners full potential or criteria.

Training advertisements are usually for pet owners, not (just to throw in another spin) guide dogs for the disabled, quarantine, search, or others. Are these trainers, qualified?

[corvus]

To me, getting qualifications of any sort shows your commitment to learning about that subject. That's an indication to me that you might be a good bet.

People seem to think I'm an academic snob, though. It's not my fault I put a high value on formal training! I just know that I never decide one day that I've learnt enough about something. Even when you go to seminars run by people you don't think much of on a topic you know very well, you can be surprised and learn something.

[WildatHeart]

I am currently doing obedience now, but I used to do obedience in the old days when I was a young kid and I took it seriously as well (Compared to some I've seen, but some kids training dogs are great! But I think often that Instructors should try and assist them as well like they did for me when I trained my whippet 10 to 15 years ago).

Quite frankly, I am disappointed in the training methods today at the same club I attend and at times I get a bit annoyed at the lack of thoughts for the handler/trainers and the dogs.

The biggest issue I have is that some instructors do not give you a chance to be able complete the command, and some that takes a while such as the drop command or the recall, and sometimes it just goes way too quick!

At my obedience club, some instructors play the game "Simon said", Great game definitely, but it irks me and my dog when it becomes a big joke or a game to the point that your dog is sick to death of repetitive task (Like right about turn like 20 times!)"

At times, they'd be like "down your dog... forward... halt.... forward... down your dog" all within a minute too!

I'm sorry if I sound venting or annoyed, but if anyone becomes Instructor or Qualified Dog Trainer, they should be considerate and take the class in a way that will benefit everyone in the class or private session. They also have to remember that some dogs can only do so much, and constant repetitive action will only just drive them nuts and not want to work anymore, especially if they cram a whole lot of ridiculous command within a span of a few minutes.

If anyone wishing to be a trainer, they must be able to demonstrate that they can instruct a handler or a class and be able to ensure it is ran efficiently that every owners and their dog are given a chance to complete a command and a quick break to reward their dogs after a successful task.

what state are you in? sounds just like the club i used to go, i stopped going after three nights...i got in trouble for not saying stay, and for using a release word, having my lead in the wrong hand, so i just left, no point arguing

[Roguedog]

a vet behaviorist still has to do courses and practical understanding of dog behavior. Frankly I have seen a couple of them at work and was far from impressed at their practical application of dog behavior techniques.

DOg behavior is different from training. a dog can be trained yet behaviorally it can be far from ideal. I work more on behavior before I deal with formal obedience training as you cannot have one without the other.

I agree with Nekhbet (again! ) I have also been quite suprised with one of the local vet behaviourists I have had the chance to watch, was waaayyyy to keen to put the dog on drugs (not necessary for this dog IMO) and left leaving the owners quite confused as to what they are supposed to do when their dog is aggressing!! owners took dog off drugs and worked on the behaviour side with me and dog can now happily attend group classes and is coming along beautifully in obedience too...

IMO a qualified trainer/behaviourist is one who either has minimum 15 years active experience (more preferrably) or someone who is accredited, anyone can get a certificate by doing a course but to get accreditation you need to demonstrate you CAN rehab/train dogs and have a long list of referrences from industry colleges/co-workers and clients willing to give testimonial... accreditation is hard to get!!

[Tambaqui]

I am currently doing obedience now, but I used to do obedience in the old days when I was a young kid and I took it seriously as well (Compared to some I've seen, but some kids training dogs are great! But I think often that Instructors should try and assist them as well like they did for me when I trained my whippet 10 to 15 years ago).

Quite frankly, I am disappointed in the training methods today at the same club I attend and at times I get a bit annoyed at the lack of thoughts for the handler/trainers and the dogs.

The biggest issue I have is that some instructors do not give you a chance to be able complete the command, and some that takes a while such as the drop command or the recall, and sometimes it just goes way too quick!

At my obedience club, some instructors play the game "Simon said", Great game definitely, but it irks me and my dog when it becomes a big joke or a game to the point that your dog is sick to death of repetitive task (Like right about turn like 20 times!)"

At times, they'd be like "down your dog... forward... halt.... forward... down your dog" all within a minute too!

I'm sorry if I sound venting or annoyed, but if anyone becomes Instructor or Qualified Dog Trainer, they should be considerate and take the class in a way that will benefit everyone in the class or private session. They also have to remember that some dogs can only do so much, and constant repetitive action will only just drive them nuts and not want to work anymore, especially if they cram a whole lot of ridiculous command within a span of a few minutes.

If anyone wishing to be a trainer, they must be able to demonstrate that they can instruct a handler or a class and be able to ensure it is ran efficiently that every owners and their dog are given a chance to complete a command and a quick break to reward their dogs after a successful task.

what state are you in? sounds just like the club i used to go, i stopped going after three nights...i got in trouble for not saying stay, and for using a release word, having my lead in the wrong hand, so i just left, no point arguing

I'm from Victoria *nods*

[wayrod]

Qualified Dog Trainer Vs Dog Trainer, What makes you a Qualified Dog Trainer?

What makes you a Qualified Dog Trainer

There is no right or wrong answers, just gaining insight as to how people perceive people to be Qualified Dog Trainers

Is it by having a number of years of experience? [ 9 ] [25.71%]

Is it by completing a course, and if so, does a two day course count? [ 1 ] [2.86%]

Is it having a Certificate in dog training? [ 6 ] [17.14%]

Is it having a Certificate that is approved by the National Qualification Framework? [ 10 ] [28.57%]

Is it by belonging to an organisation that says you are a Qualified Dog Trainer? [ 1 ] [2.86%]

Is it being recognised by your State Government under the terms of a relevant Act of Parliament? [ 1 ] [2.86%]

None of the above [ 4 ] [11.43%]

All of the above [ 3 ] [8.57%]

Total Votes: 23 (as at 06/08/09)

The reasons I have highlighted the above as it changes after each vote.

It is interesting to see how people perceive dog trainers to be qualified.

Would it surprise anyone to know that having a Certificate that is approved by the National Qualification Framework does not make you a qualified dog trainer, well at least not in Victoria.

In Victoria, the only reference I have been reliably informed to a "qualified dog trainer" is referenced in the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act.

[An Act of Parliament].

Is anyone aware if this is similar in their respective states?