Trained In Adt Style

[haven]

Many clubs also use a stay and or wait command in addition to their position command, which ADT doesn't use.

[Casster17]

I was trained/have been training in the ADT way, And I will admitt the ADT way works better for my dog then any other method. Dominant dog among other things...

Not sure which other clubs train in a similar matter.

I am one of the many who has a difficult dog that most other training places won't allow.

[Paulp]

Berwick might prefer you to train with a flat collar. I know that Croydon does. Think the clubs are fairly similar in training styles.

Oh - can someone confirm that. That would not work for me given we've already trained the correction technique.

At Berwick we encourage people to try a flat collar first but are quite happy for people to use correction chains and head halters (we sell both in our shop) if that is their preference.

[jackal]

It's difficult to know where to go.

I am used to training my dogs 3 times at week, twice at ADT and once at Rotty club, I may have to join 2 clubs so I can vary the distraction work

I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I train them under distraction alot. The only places where dogs are on lead in large numbers are training centres.

[Brad Griggs]

Hello to all members

My name is Brad Griggs, and I operate K9 Services International. I am a PROFESSIONAL dog trainer and canine behaviourist with close to a decade of experience, qualified by the National Dog Trainers Federation.

I actually joined DOL specifically to post on this thread, as I think that it is a very interesting discussion and feel that I am in a position to help those affected by ADT's recent closure. If I ruffle feathers or offend I sincerely apologise, as my intentions with this post are good. So here goes:

Firstly, ADT was founded 24 years ago by Boyd Hooper. Since inception it has stood for highly proofed, reliable obedience taught in a way that offers the least amount of potential problems for handlers. Its philosophy is science based, and it offered far more than any club ever has in terms of value for money and commitment to excellence. I have spoke to Boyd personally and he is greatly saddened by the closure and the effect it has had on people, however it was a business decision - PURE AND SIMPLE.

SO, a lot of people on here seem to be lost regarding where to turn for training from this point forward, which is certainly understandable. Here are a few points that you should consider when making a decision on who to trust to train you to train your dog.

Firstly, the trainer you choose should be QUALIFIED!!! The NDTF qualification and education system represents the most complete and scientifically respected trainer qualification available in Australia. RSPCA, Customs, Police and Military acknowledge this fact, and this is evidenced by the fact that some of their personnel are graduates of NDTF courses. So basically if you are seeking an informed person to give you up to date, scientifically based training advice an NDTF qualified trainer is the place to START...certainly there are some wonderful, knowledgable, praiseworthy trainers around with great understanding of their craft that have not completed an NDTF course, however they are in the minority.

EXPERIENCE COUNTS...a PROFESSIONAL trainer, in the simplest terms to explain, basically means that your trainer makes their living by training dogs. For sake of example I personally have literally trained 1000's of dogs, and it is my job, my hobby, my passion. Most of my friends are professional trainers, and we are passionate about what we do. Whilst the NDTF course is a great start it is widely understood in the dog training community that NDTF graduates are equipped with the skills to START their learning. An open minded HIGHLY EXPERIENCED trainer is able to access and apply a great many tools to facilitate the best possible outcome when training both you and your dog. Whilst an individual trainer or club may have a preference towards certain training methodologies, they choose their methodology based on their belief that it offers the greater amount of benefit to the widest range of dogs, with the least amount of contingencies (disadvantage or potential problems). YES, there are some fantastic and passionate amateur trainers out there too, however they tend to be fewer in numbers.

CONSIDER YOUR AIMS...if you wish to compete in VCA obedience trials or any other specialised area, then the obedience style that you choose should lead you towards that end goal. For most people and most dogs a LIFESTYLE ORIENTED TRAINING STYLE makes the most sense, and provides the style of obedience that best lends itself towards creating an easily livable, highly enjoyable K9 companion. There is little point training in a curriculum that is based on what is required to pass obedience titles if you have zero desire to ever compete with your dog, just as the converse is true. Both of these goals are not mutually exclusive, though the amount of trainers out there that have the understanding and experience necessary to provide you and your dog with the knowledge, methodology and approach required to bring the two goals together in the end is considerably small.

AN OPEN MIND...if the club or trainer that you are considering dealing with only accepts dogs of a certain age, denies training to aggressive or problem dogs, 'fails' handlers or dogs (failing in competition excluded), does not allow the use of certain training equipment OR only allows one type of training equipment (check chain, halti, etc), then there is a reasonably high chance that the trainer or club in question is not open minded, and often these clubs produce dogs and handlers that are unsatisfied with their results. THIS IS A GENERALISATION AND NOT A DEFINITIVE STATEMENT, however the fact remains that there are more clubs and trainers out there that fall short of the mark that fit these model than there that contradict it. ADT was a fantastic example of a club that allowed the use of check chains, halti's, flat collars, slip collars, etc, and a club that took on even the most problematic dogs; this was because they understood that dogs and people all have different preferences, all dogs deserve access to being well trained, and the club had the knowledge base and open outlook to accomodate these problems and differences of opinion.

TO FEED OR NOT TO FEED...Food can be a truly wonderful training tool for dogs, but the club or trainer that you are dealing with should clearly display the ability to teach handlers how to avoid food becoming necessary for correct performance. A well trained dog and handler should not have to rely on the use of food for established obedience skills, and incorrect use of food can actually become problematic in the training of the dog and handler.

PUNISHMENT...without commenting on styles of punishment or their appropriateness, it is understood by the world's foremost science based dog trainers, including behavioural neuroscientist Dr. Stuart Hilliard, that some form of punishment is necessary to produce the best training outcomes for handlers and their dogs. Whether punishing by withholding food, or by a verbal reprimand, leash correction, etc, some punishment must be used in the later stages of training and proofing. Any trainer or club that claims that dogs do not learn through punishment does not understand basic training psychology as accepted by the scientific world and/or bases their opinion on long ago debunked research. Often times clubs or trainers that hold this belief produce extremely limited outcomes, and generally only allow certain dogs to train. These clubs DO produce some really great success stories with certain types of dogs, but routinely accept only dogs that lend themselves well to their training methodology. Generally speaking these clubs are not suitable for dogs with dominant personalities and aggression problems.

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR....this pretty much speaks for itself.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST.....It is EXTREMELY important that you feel comfortable at the club or with the trainer that you deal with. If you are happy it gives your dog the best chance of having a happy training experience. Training is bound to be difficult or less enjoyable at times, especially when working through problems or difficulties, but it should be an enjoyable experience overall.

So there you go guys, I really do hope that this helps put things in perspective for you all. A short post on a complicated subject true, but I think it covers the basics (more or less). Again I would like to state that in no way am I trying to ruffle feathers, instead I am trying to provide access to objective information from a highly experienced professional viewpoint. Basically, its all stuff that I think most people would want to know, indeed need to know. I have not included my personal opinions, rather have tried to provide information to any interested readers that allows them to make their own INFORMED decisions, whatever that decision may be.

BE GOOD TO YOUR DOGS GUYS, THEY DESERVE IT

Best of luck in all your doggy endeavours!

Brad Griggs

Edited August 6, 2009 by Brad Griggs
Details removed

[megan_]

Hi Brad,

Maybe I've misconstrued your post but businesses aren't allowed to advertise in this forum. The trainers who do participate here have posted many times, given lots of advice for free etc (and therefore get some "free" advertising because everyone here knows them and their methods).

Cheers,

Megan

ETA: removed my edit

Edited August 6, 2009 by megan_

[Kalevi]

Hi Brad,

Maybe I've misconstrued your post but businesses aren't allowed to advertise in this forum. The trainers who do participate here have posted many times, given lots of advice for free etc (and therefore get some "free" advertising because everyone here knows them and their methods).

Cheers,

Megan

ETA: Just read your other (duplicate) posts, so I'm pretty sure I haven't miscontrued anything

I did not read it like that - I think its great to share knowledge and thanks for the info Brad. I found myself nodding to some of it and it brought into focus a few other things which I've been struggling with when trying to identify where to go next.

[Casster17]

Hi Brad,

Maybe I've misconstrued your post but businesses aren't allowed to advertise in this forum. The trainers who do participate here have posted many times, given lots of advice for free etc (and therefore get some "free" advertising because everyone here knows them and their methods).

Cheers,

Megan

ETA: removed my edit

He has advertised/posted the same post in a few forums...

Very rude and has ruffled many feathers.....

[Brad Griggs]

Okay guys it appears for the most part I have gotten off on the wrong foot. For this I am sincerely sorry, especially as I went to great lengths to make clear that I did not wish to ruffle any feathers.

To address the statement that I have made the same post 'in a few forums' let me say this is incorrect. I made the same post in the 2 ADT related forums that I could find, to the best of my recollection. Considering the fact that it was relevant to both threads I dont consider that to be unreasonable, although I may have broken some type of forum ettiquite unintentionally. If this is the case once again I apologise sincerely, but as stated it is my first post and I am a new member, so I would hope for some level of understanding on the matter.

Whilst I await clarification from Troy regarding exactly what I did wrong, I am guessing after reading my edited post that it was the addition of my phone number and email address to the post. Many people have banners that they sign off with that show an email address, and so I figured that this would be a non issue. As for the phone number I offered it so that people could contact me for ADVICE, and I did this because clearly there are people that are very lost and feeling like they do not know how to make smart choices regarding the training of their dog. Again, if this is not allowed and I broke the rules I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY. I should have taken more time to read the posting rules before I posted, and will not make the same mistake again.

I almost did not join up and post because I have heard a million horror stories about bad politics affecting people on this and other similar sites, and I understand that the written word is very easily misconstrued as there is no ability for people to read your body language or read your intentions. I would certainly appreciate hearing from anybody at any time in the future should I in some way break ettiquite or the rules, and that way I can take immediate steps to make ammends. It would appear that I have not had a very successful debut on DOL!!!

Having said all this, I felt good about taking the time to give people some advice that I myself would want to be given. I would hope that more experienced posters and users of these forums would accept my sincere apology and not bear any grudge towards me for the mistake/s I have made, and rather would look to see the good side of what I did. What did I do??? I listed objective facts devoid of personal opinion, simply to try and help some people who seemed to need some help.

I put my full name as my user name in an attempt to show people that my posting was genuine in its aim to help, and I think that goes to show a lot.

So in closing, if I have offended any of the DOL please accept an unreserved total apology, and my undertaking that I shall endeavour not to make the same mistake twice.

If you found value in what I wrote, and in some way it has allowed you to make an informed decision about chosing a dog trainer or training club, then thanks for taking the time to read my post and I am really happy that you got what I was attempting to say.

Warm Regards to all users,

Brad Griggs

[Kavik]

Hi Brad

It is rather bad form to post the same lengthy post (which could come across as advertising/self-promotion) on several threads.

There is a rule about openly advertising on the site in posts, not sure exactly what is or isn't allowed, I think a small link in sig is OK?

ETA: Why don't you post a bit about yourself in the introductions forum? Then you can introduce yourself properly

Edited August 6, 2009 by Kavik

[Brad Griggs]

Hi Brad

It is rather bad form to post the same lengthy post (which could come across as advertising/self-promotion) on several threads.

There is a rule about openly advertising on the site in posts, not sure exactly what is or isn't allowed, I think a small link in sig is OK?

ETA: Why don't you post a bit about yourself in the introductions forum? Then you can introduce yourself properly

Cheers Kavic, I really appreciate the input!

I did see the introductions forum, but as mentioned I only wished to post on the ADT related topic to offer help, not to advertise or make myself known. Had I had the goal to promote myself then that would definitely have been my course of action.

I too think a small link in the sig would be okay, although can't see how that is different to a single typed link.

The phone number thing I now get, as mentioned in the apology.

Posting the same post in 2 closely related threads where it has relevance and may help someone...it may be an ettiquite thing but I dont see that as wrong. I will be careful not to do the same thing again if possible.

Cheers again for the input, have a great week!

Brad

[Staff'n'Toller]

I think a lot of people are still quite peeved about losing their money and given the GFC, VCA run clubs that have a vastly lower fee structure may be the only alternative for many dog handlers.

Luckily there is an abundance of NDTF qualified trainers not only here on the forum but in Vic since the course originated here so people have options for private lessons or a few of the other private clubs still running who train in the same way.

[leopuppy04]

Well there should be no luring in Basic 1 or 2. Maybe in a basic 1 class that had dogs that couldn't sit at all as they hadn't been through puppies. If the dog could already sit, drop & stand I don't know why the instructor would say to lure though.

We do get taught other methods from luring btw as not all dogs respond to luring. I taught the under the legs/bridge drop method last week to my puppy class as 1 puppy wouldn't lure.

Basic 1 'off the street' is taught with luring too (mainly) but as Jules said, instructors are taught alternative methods too

Many clubs also use a stay and or wait command in addition to their position command, which ADT doesn't use.

This is a difficult people for some to get past . Especially in a trial where people will come back to you and say "but you didn't tell your dog to STAY"

Just be insistent and eventually it will sink in for others . I say 'stay' but know heaps of people that don't

[JulesP]

Yeah we aren't supposed to teach people to say stay. And I do the big talk about having a release word and not having to use stay. Then a couple of weeks later I find them using 'stay' for their recalls!!! So then I have to do the stay & wait speech.

Really think it is too hard a concept to grasp! I use stay too btw

[haven]

Many clubs also use a stay and or wait command in addition to their position command, which ADT doesn't use.

This is a difficult people for some to get past . Especially in a trial where people will come back to you and say "but you didn't tell your dog to STAY"

Just be insistent and eventually it will sink in for others . I say 'stay' but know heaps of people that don't

Oh yeah, when I went to another club to do agility with Loki the instructors just boggled when I didn't use a stay command and it didn't matter how many times I explained it they just couldn't get their head around it

[Lablover]

Best of luck in all your doggy endeavours!

Brad Griggs

To what level or expertise did you train 1000's of dogs?

Edited August 6, 2009 by Lablover

[Brad Griggs]

Best of luck in all your doggy endeavours!

Brad Griggs

To what level or expertise did you train 1000's of dogs?

Training for the dogs and their handlers has taken the form of classes, private lessons, boarding and training, behavioural modification, sales of dogs, personal dog ownership, working for and with breeders and also consulting to private companies. Thus the level of training is dictated by the individual dog and the handlers needs and wants. This has varied from leash walking courses to advanced level very highly proofed off leash obedience, complex skills and hand signals.

Whilst I choose not to compete in VCA trials for personal reasons, I have been involved in the training of sporting dogs.

I have also worked with scent detection dogs and handlers in a problem solving and training capacity.

Im not bragging, Im not the best trainer in the world by any means, but I am proud of the runs that I have on the board.

Hope that answer covers it to your satisfaction lablover:)

Have a brilliant week.

Brad

[Staranais]

Good post Brad, I hope you stick around and post more.

It did come off as self promotion a little, but I accept it wasn't your intention to cause any problems.

Welcome to the forum!

[Brad Griggs]

Good post Brad, I hope you stick around and post more.

It did come off as self promotion a little, but I accept it wasn't your intention to cause any problems.

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks very much for the bouying post Staranais;)

As I often hear, the road to disaster is paved with good intentions!

Take Care,

Brad

[Grey]

i'm sorry, but i really had to have a laugh reading about how we get what we pay for in terms of future dog training..

approximately 700 dollars paid in advance to ADT and finding myself and pup 4 weeks into level 4 when the sh*t hit the fan doesn't really lend that statement too much credence i LOVED the adt style of training and am really going to miss the two ladies who were pivotal in being able to address some of the behavioural issues i was facing with Skylla, but now its back to croydon.

Sorry, no point whatsoever to this post, other than to share the small giggle i had to myself as perusing this thread. carry on now...