Limping 9-month German Shepherd

[Miss Danni]

It is normal for Pano to move from one leg to another and come and go. It varies with the rate of growth happening in the growth plates. They do eventually grow out of it once the growth plates close. Pano is often found in families, so I believe that there is a genetic tendency in some lines, to develop Pano under the "right" conditions.

You need to change your thinking about his exercise - dont be worried about being "fair", if he is limping, he gets a swim or no exercise regardless of what his sister is doing.

With his size, it sounds like he has grown very fast and a lot of stress is on his system. Please consider taking some weight off him, unless he is 70cm tall, he is too heavy and this will certainly contribute to his problem. To cut back on his intake, replace some of this normal food with cooked mashed pumpkin - it's filling but doesnt have much in the way of calories etc.

As Dyzney said, bones are great for GSDs, especially bones like chicken wings/carcasses (necks wont get chewed by a 9 month old, they get swollowed whole), lamb/beef flaps or brisket and lamb shanks. Dont feed long leg bones as they can splinter and cause major problems. Meaty bones are ideal as they are balanced in calcium, protein and phosphorus, so replace some of his normal food with bones instead (not as well as his normal meal). They also take a while to eat and can keep an exercise restricted dog amused for a few hours!

[CoupeDash]

thanks so much Miss Danni! your comments are very helpful, and it's great to chat to someone who's been in the same situation.

so if i do half dry food, half cooked mash pumpkin that might reduce his weight a bit?

at the moment their getting dry food in the morning, and dry food / raw meat at night. we're on Royan Canin for puppies

do you have a GSD? what are you feeding your's?

[Tilly]

When you say you are feeding them raw meat at night - what is this exactly? Do you feed raw food such as chicken necks (these can be too small for some dogs who inhale their food), chicken wings, chicken frames or something like brisket bones? Raw bones would be better then just plain raw meat.

Regarding his weight - is he chubby or lean? My now 60kg GSD was about 39kg at 9 months and he was really, really lean - so sometimes weight is not a good indication.

[CoupeDash]

the vet said he was very healthy and just a big puppy. I'm not too worried about his weight cause we were told from the start we were going to end up with a dog on the bigger side

we were advised to feed them puppy mince or chicken mince at night with their food, so we do. if we give them bones, it's before we leave for work to keep them occupied for a few hours, otherwise at night they would be out there for ages!

[Tilly]

we were advised to feed them puppy mince or chicken mince at night with their food, so we do. if we give them bones, it's before we leave for work to keep them occupied for a few hours, otherwise at night they would be out there for ages!

Is the chicken mince - minced chicken frames with bones in it? Meat by is self is not particularly good - they really need digestable bone for the calcium etc. Chicken mince made up of minced bone and meat (the chicken frame) is much better then plain meat.

My 17/18 week old GSD pup (currently 19kg) can polish off 500grms of chicken wings (frozen solid as a lump) in no time at all ... If I want to keep him occupied for a preiod of time then it is the bigger marrow type bones and then he doesn't tend to actually eat the bone but strip all the meat off it.

My parents are looking after my older brothers small pomxchi and she was diagnosed with hip and elbow hip dysplasia and often put out her hips or elbow with generally running around - causing her to limp. Since my parents have been looking after her (almost 12 months) and with feeding her chicken necks every night (rather then once or twice a week) she had had absolutely no issues and has not slowed down in the slightest. We believe it was due to the increase in calcium etc in her diet that really helped.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Tilly

[CoupeDash]

so chicken wings, just frozen together is ok to give them? could we give them a few with their dinner at night instead of the minced meat?

dont know why i keep thinking they might choke on the chicken - gotta get rid of that thought!

[alpha bet]

For a 9month old GSD to be 38kg is definately too heavy. A full grown male is usually maximum that weight. My males who have all been top size big boned dogs have usually weighed between 36 and 38kg. Too much weight on growing bones.

Hey Tilly - how tall is your 60kg GSD - hope this was a typo........ otherwise you could ride him in the garryowen.

The best chiro around for dogs in melbourne is George Schofield in Michelham Road, Michelham (not far from the airport). He is an old bloke who has worked on greyhouds and others for ever. He has been well known thru the GSDCV for over 30 years. You arrive on a saturday morning, write your name on the blackboard and wait your turn. He only charges $10-15 and he is a gem. If he is unsure of any bone structure problems he will refer you on to someone. Have known many who have gone there and he has had great results.

[wylie]

Having just been thru something similar with a Border collie that was sent overseas move him onto Adult Royal Canin not the Junior or anything else.

His body is growing way faster than his ligaments can cope with.

Also Vitamin C needs to be added to his diet to help assimilate the calcium he is eating.

Royal Canin is to high in protein for pups that are growing quickly.

The BC was no longer limping with in a week and all reports from the past month have also been no limping.

He would be better off on a raw diet personally.

[Tilly]

For a 9month old GSD to be 38kg is definately too heavy. A full grown male is usually maximum that weight. My males who have all been top size big boned dogs have usually weighed between 36 and 38kg. Too much weight on growing bones.

Hey Tilly - how tall is your 60kg GSD - hope this was a typo........ otherwise you could ride him in the garryowen.

No typo - he ranges from 58 to 60kg - and 60kg is a good weight for him. Haven't measured him height wise but his shoulders stands my just above my waist height and I am 167 - I will measure him when he gets home in the morning.

Was told a year or so ago (by a trainer) that no GSD should weight more then 45kg and I should bring him back under that went. He weighted 45 kg at about 10/11 months and remained extremely thin until he was about 2 yrs and then he filled out nicely.

I give my boys Ester C every day - was told by a rottie breeder years ago that if his dogs are given a dose of Ester C every day then he will guarantee them for life against any hip or joint problems.

[Echo]

For a 9month old GSD to be 38kg is definately too heavy. A full grown male is usually maximum that weight. My males who have all been top size big boned dogs have usually weighed between 36 and 38kg. Too much weight on growing bones.

Hey Tilly - how tall is your 60kg GSD - hope this was a typo........ otherwise you could ride him in the garryowen.

The best chiro around for dogs in melbourne is George Schofield in Michelham Road, Michelham (not far from the airport). He is an old bloke who has worked on greyhouds and others for ever. He has been well known thru the GSDCV for over 30 years. You arrive on a saturday morning, write your name on the blackboard and wait your turn. He only charges $10-15 and he is a gem. If he is unsure of any bone structure problems he will refer you on to someone. Have known many who have gone there and he has had great results.

I agree about the weight. Much too heavy for a 9 month old.

I have a large Male here, 3.5 years old, who weighs in at 36.5kg.

Puppies should be kept lean, but not skinny. Any excess weight adds stress to the developing body and can cause problems.

George is also a good suggestion. Many GSD people have been taking their dogs to him for a long time. He knows his stuff and is very good with the way he handles the dogs.

I don't know where you live CoupeDash, but if you need to see a good Vet. then my recommendation would be Ray Fergusson at Monash Vet. Clinic.

Once again, many GSD people take their dogs to see him for all types of complaints. Some will travel long distances just to see him. He is very familiar with GSD's and the problems they can present with.

Julie

[CoupeDash]

we know he's a big boy for his age, but we've had nothing but positive comments from the vet about him and his health. if he was getting a bit chubby of course we would watch what he was eating... but he's not. far from it actually. i've taken your advice Tilly and bought them some chicken wings last night - went down a treat!

and Adult Royal Canin you think Wylie? i've checked the package and again with the vet and been recommended to stay on the Junior till he hits the 'adult weight' on the package.

thanks for all your advice though...

[wylie]

CoupeDash

Vets arent as au fait with feeding requirements as many think. It is something breeders are far more familiar with.

As a breeder i do not feed puppy food past 12 weeks as i want slow growth. All my puppies i keep and that go into pet homes are given an information sheet stating that they need to swap over to adult food at about 12 weeks if they are not going to feed raw.

And the BC pup that i sent to Austria was growing very quickly tho he was not fat. The whole point was that it works.

Lower the protein level and the issues can resolve.

Pat Hastings of "The Puppy Puzzle" also recommends pups are moved over to adult ASAP. So its not a theory that doesnt work. It also works for pups who are way down on pastern or are over knuckling.

Try it you may be surprised.

[Nekhbet]

CoupeDash I took my rottweiler off the RC puppy as he too was growing too fast and put him on the adult at your dogs age. Remember too you are feeding mince and bones so increasing the daily intake of protein! I would NOT bother with mince, raw meaty edible bones are a better idea. He sounds oversized for a pup of his breed. Keep him lean and by lean, I mean very lean to help him cope.

http://thenaturalhealthguide.com.au/practi...erapies/kimlim/

check out Dr Lim. She is well regarded for her work in skeletal problems and has helped my own dog immensely. She is not that expensive either if you go to her place for treatment, or she works from Highton Vet Clinic as well. Get any x-rays that have been done and show her then she will help you with diet, exercise, treatments etc.

[Tash]

I totally agree with what Wylie is saying. I have had panno and I took the dog off the high protein food infact I used just Adult Bonni and the dog stopped limping within 24hours. I also agree with the Vit C (I use Ester C).

Edited August 4, 2009 by Tash

[Echo]

Original post:

Hi everyone,

really hoping you guys can help me out! desperately need advice!

we have 2 beautiful german shepherd puppies (brother & sister) who are 9-months old now, soooo cute! anyway...

Dash (our male) started limping at about 5-months old so of course we took him straight to the vet who put him on anti-inflamatory tablets. they didnt do anything! so we then tried injections, once a week for a month, still nothing! next was a refered visit to the animal hospital cause to my horror the words 'elbow dysplasia' was being thrown around but wouldnt you know it, as soon as he entered the doors of the hospital he stopped limping!! this is after 3-months of limping everyday!! aagghhh - in a good way.

good news is - he hasnt since.... until this morning...

not sure if he's sprained something (took a bit of a tumble yest when we were at the park) or it's come back

i've been told SeaTone tablets work a treat. any comments on that one?

want to try a few things before heading back to the hospital for a massive bill again!!

anything would be helpful right now - just wanna make sure my boy isnt in too much pain

Last Post:

we know he's a big boy for his age, but we've had nothing but positive comments from the vet about him and his health. if he was getting a bit chubby of course we would watch what he was eating... but he's not. far from it actually. i've taken your advice Tilly and bought them some chicken wings last night - went down a treat!

and Adult Royal Canin you think Wylie? i've checked the package and again with the vet and been recommended to stay on the Junior till he hits the 'adult weight' on the package.

thanks for all your advice though...

You posted that you "desperately need advice".

Despite Vet. advice and treatment already recieved, you are still experiencing problems with your dog.

Vets are not the Gods that some people hold them up to be. You have been given very good advice from people here on diet, excercise and the weight of your dog. All of which can be contributing factors toward your dog's problem.

You came here looking for advice, because the Vets have not been able to help you, but then you choose to ignore those that have offered advice, that is your perogative.

Why bother wasting the time of people on here if you are going to dismiss their suggestions and go with what your Vet. said anyway?

Maybe you should have ended your last post with:

"Thanks for the advice, but I won't listen to any of it, except to buy my dog some chicken wings".

Good luck with finding a solution to your dog's problem.

Julie

Edited August 4, 2009 by Echo

[LizT]

There's a lovely lady in Melbourne called Carol who show Collies who manipulates and has Herbal remedies for dogs.

My GSD pup had an intemitten limp between 5 to 8 months with nothing showing up as wrong with him. At almost four years old now and I only ever saw him limp once and that was after catching a ball in the air last year and he landed badly on one back leg and limped for about half an hour after that he was fine and didn't limp again. He was lucky he didn't do any damage as it was a fair bit of weight to land on one leg.

I'm finding this "Adult diet" talk quite interesting as the dog mentioned above was eating the same as our adult dogs by about seven months and his limping did stop shortly after that? All your descriptions really makes me suspect it was Panno. Certainly something to think about. Also Coupedash was he large as a baby puppy? If he was then his current sizing should be okay for who he is if he's not overweight, which it seems he is not.

BTW don't be too harsh on Coupedash, she is like a new mum with a baby who is reluctant to stray from the advice given by those she holds in authority (Doctors nurses, health centres) Totally understandable and natural. She is entitled to glean what she will from the advice given. It is a forum not a pay by the hour consultation.

[CoupeDash]

sorry Julie but i think you misunderstood me.

i HAD taken him to the vet originally, then the animal hospital.... all the limping stopped for a couple of months. and it's only come back in the past couple of days.

so i wanted to get advice from other dog owners experiencing the same problem.

and i received good advice, which i AM taking thank you from other people.

he's off the puppy RC and now on adult. feeding him chicken wings instead of raw meat too.

thanks for your honest concern

[CoupeDash]

and yeah - i was just going off our breeder, vet and specialist info.

thought hopping on here for more personal advice would be the way to go.

thanks LizT...

and thanks everyone for the advice!!

[Nekhbet]

this is the whole high protein/fat biting in the bum!

You are better to err on a giant breed food for a dog you KNOW or see will grow to a huge size. The point is not the dog will not grow to its full potential but that growth will be slow and sustained. They might take longer to get to adult size but they will be healthier and happier for it, something not a lot of vets understand as its not really covered at vet school.

Your dog is a massive GSD, so treat him more like a giant breed then a large breed. also why not try some swimming exercises to ensure he has the musculature to hold himself up, some pain can also come from muscle exhaustion on the heavy frame My dogue was slower to mature but he has the fitness to compete in dog sports due to the fact he is lean and never had Pano as his diet was the Eagle Pack giant and raw meaty bones he looked great on it as well.

[CoupeDash]

i think we will treat him as a giant breed - cause like you said, growing at an enormous rate!

thanks for that!