CoupeDash Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Hi everyone, really hoping you guys can help me out! desperately need advice! we have 2 beautiful german shepherd puppies (brother & sister) who are 9-months old now, soooo cute! anyway... Dash (our male) started limping at about 5-months old so of course we took him straight to the vet who put him on anti-inflamatory tablets. they didnt do anything! so we then tried injections, once a week for a month, still nothing! next was a refered visit to the animal hospital cause to my horror the words 'elbow dysplasia' was being thrown around but wouldnt you know it, as soon as he entered the doors of the hospital he stopped limping!! this is after 3-months of limping everyday!! aagghhh - in a good way. good news is - he hasnt since.... until this morning... not sure if he's sprained something (took a bit of a tumble yest when we were at the park) or it's come back i've been told SeaTone tablets work a treat. any comments on that one? want to try a few things before heading back to the hospital for a massive bill again!! anything would be helpful right now - just wanna make sure my boy isnt in too much pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Did the Vet and/or Specialist Vet take any xrays to determine diagnosis before treatment? How long ago since the visit to the Specialist? Edited August 3, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scales of Justice Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I would be spending the money at the vets to get a diagnosis - things which spring to mind for this sort of problem could be elbow issues, hip issues, or panoestitis - all which should be diagnosed rather sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Are the two young puppies playing with each other all the time? Many breeders won't sell similar age puppies to each other due to the risk of injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I was also going to ask- what Xrays/scans, blood tests were done to actually find if the problem is skeletal/or infection, or muscular... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMonaro Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I would try a dog chiropractor. I just had one of my dogs there for a limp and it turned out it was a pinched nerve in the shoulder (from playing). Now he is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDash Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 yeah we've done all the x-rays - the specialist actually said they ere the clearest ones he's seen and couldnt see anything wrong with him! me, my partner and the specialist even took him for a walk around the block when we were there to see if he would start limping again - but no. our last visit to the specialist was about a month ago... dont get me wrong, we have no problem with the money (already reached about $1500), but i just feel we've done everything - the vet, the specialist, the works and still no solid diagnosis. just wish i knew that this is a sprain from his tumble and not the bad news.. would like to know of any other alternatives people might know for the meantime SeaTone has been spoken about a lot and heard that it works... and also Glucosamine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDash Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 oohh dog chiropractor might be good.... im in melbourne, do you know of any good ones?? and yeah, the 2 play together all the time, and being big pups and sometimes a bit rough... well the vet just did xrays to see if anything was broken then sedated him to get clearer ones to see if they could suss out elbow dysplasia.... really hope he's just tumbled wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Dogy chiro's can be magical in the things they sometimes find when everything else has come back clear, so I can highly recommend giving one a go I'm not in Melbourne, but I'm sure someone from Melbourne will pop in and recommend one to you soon. I don't know if your breeder has discussed this with you or not, but having two large breed pups rough playing together is not a good idea as they are growing - it's almost asking for injuries and growth problems. I would recommend that you prevent rough play between them as much as possible, and particularly while your boy is limping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Hi coupedash, things like OCD and Pano can take up to 3 months to show up on xrays. so, if you got xrays done as soon as you first noticed lameness, then there is still a chance that things like this could be present. Having said this, it could easily be a sprain or strain, so not trying to scare you, just inform you. Whatever it is, your pup should be on at least semi rest, no rough play, jumping or the like. He needs to behave like "an old man", type of rest. Gentle movements. Pano is quite common in GSDs, particular large males and at this age. In fact some people know it is the GSD disease. Has the pup grown very big very quickly? Is he being over exercised (forced walking/running)? Is he getting too much calcium or an unbalanced diet? These are all things that can come into being known as possible causes of Pano, yet not necessarily substanciated. Jury seems to be out on that. There is heaps of info online regarding Pano that you can read up on. It is basically what is known as growing pains. Scales of Justice mentioned Pano, Panoestitis. In GSDs they usually grow out of it by approx 18 months. Your pup may very well not have it, but like everything, it is handy to read up on these things and learn about them anyway. Good luck. Hope he gets better soon. I can recommend a great Bowen Therapist in Frankston Sth. Not sure if you are nearby or interested, but feel free to PM me if so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMonaro Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 sorry dont know of any in melbourne...but as allerzeit said, hopefully someone will be along soon that will know one. He may need to be crated and actually just need to rest and recover if it is something simple like a sprain, because he might be re-aggrivating it each time he plays with the other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 There's a lovely lady in Melbourne called Carol who show Collies who manipulates and has Herbal remedies for dogs. My GSD pup had an intemitten limp between 5 to 8 months with nothing showing up as wrong with him. At almost four years old now and I only ever saw him limp once and that was after catching a ball in the air last year and he landed badly on one back leg and limped for about half an hour after that he was fine and didn't limp again. He was lucky he didn't do any damage as it was a fair bit of weight to land on one leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) I would probably just not be too quick to crate for complete rest until you find out exactly what the issue is. (Not meaning to jump on your toes missmonaro ) Depending on what the complain is, crating or complete rest can result in some quantities of muscle atrophy and incorrect growth patterns in legs, which can then cause a whole other set of issues. Yes, definitely there are some situation where complete rest is called for, and yes a sprain or strain would possibly be one of those, but a correct diagnosis is required first. Until you find out what is wrong, my suggestion would be separating the pups, and encouraging natural restful behaviours when and where possible. If you already crate overnight, that is fine, but do not do it all day until you know what is going on... IMO. Edited August 3, 2009 by dyzney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDash Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 thanks so much everyone - definitely a lot to think about. we have the 2 pups seperated today, one out the back and one out the front. With the side gate to look at each other through hehe and when we come home they usually go straight onto their mats and fall asleep - amazing how much they still sleep!! but we'll only walk Coupe (our girl) tonight and give him a rest... in re: to growing and exercise we tried to do our best with research before buying them so hopefully we're doing the right thing. they get a walk everyday for between 20-30mins or they'll tear up the backyard! Dash is growing at a enormous rate - he's 9-months and hit 38kg a couple of wks ago. with his feet and legs i'd be sore too!! they are huge!! growing pains was another thing mentioned - and what the vet and specialist ended up leaning towards rather than dysplasia in the end. but they just said he'd grow out of it. is that right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDash Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 and we're feeding them both Royal Canin with the addition of some raw meat at night.... that's ok yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) That sounds great coupedash, keep em seprate when they are expected to play rough. Yes, as I mentioned in previous post, Panoestitis (growing pains) is something that dogs grow out of, but it is very painful for them. It can go from leg to leg and can appear to disappear and then return. it will usually be completely gone by 14 - 20 months of age. It is more ideal to find out why he might have it, and solve the underlying issue, rathern than letting him do what he wants knowing he will grow out of it. I would be cutting out all forced walking (on leash walking) for a couple of months if the vets think it is Pano. Also if you feeding lots of bones, ie the ones he can ingest like chicken carcasses etc, I would be cutting them out or down, to lessen the intake of calcium. Others may disagree, so I am not necessarily saying do what I suggest, but at least have a think about it and find out some more information. Others may have more experience with Pano, so may be able to advise better. I would also suggest you put him on Collagen as opposed to Glucosamine if the vets say it is Pano. Collagen is better for joints, Collagen for bones. However, the vets cannot know it is Pano until they xray for it. Some say that pressing of the legs is a method of diagnosing pano, but I would not recommend you do this. I am not even a fan of vets doing this. Also, keep his weight down. It will not hurt to take a kg or 2 off him provided he is not already rake thin. Less weight will help. Edited August 3, 2009 by dyzney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Danni Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Wow CoupeDash, 38kg is very large for a 9 month old male. Have any of the vets mentioned his weight as a contributing factor? What did the last xrays of his elbows show? He certainly sounds to me like he has Pano. I've experienced it three times in over 25 years, I currently have one girl with it. Most experienced GSD vets can diagnose it pretty quickly. You usually just have to wait it out, limit their weight bearing exercise (swimming is great) and treat them when they are in the most discomfort. If it is Pano, a check by a chiropractor would not do any harm, as there may be more than one issue affecting Dash. Most GSD pups that play hard are out in the neck and sciatic, so it would be beneficial to have both pups checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDash Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 that's exactly what happened! it went from his left front leg to his right front leg... so that's why im scared it's coming back. think we'll book him in for another vet visit this week. the last one was a while ago and that's when everything had gone back to normal, and if they can pick it up months later, maybe it'll show up this time. guess i just feel bad not taking him for walks when the other one gets to go. but it's better in the long run for him. we do give them bones but not chicken carcasses - only beef bones from the our fresh pet meat place. i'm a bit scared to give them chicken necks etc thanks again - this is soooo helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwyr Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Don't want to be a doom and gloom merchant but if it's been both sides of his front legs - it still could be something like OCD. This is most common in males between 5-18 months. I would re-xray his shoulders and elbows plus I would make sure he isn't getting any food with a protein content of higher than 24% maximum and that he is not overdoing the exercise (including jumping off decks, steps etc...). ETA: swimming is great for big dogs and also any supplement containing chondroiton, shark cartiledge and glucosamine will help! here's a link to LIDA: http://www.vetsci.usyd.edu.au/lida/dogs/in...n+shepherd+dog+[Alsatian]&Op=1 You need to be sure about what you are dealing with........... The fact the problem has never really resolved is the worry..... Rae Edited August 3, 2009 by Hotwyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDash Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 yeah he IS a big boy! the vet said he was large for his age, but we're doing everything right apparently with feeding, exercise etc Vet said his weight could be contributing to growing pains that's what made them think that, rather than dysplasia. wow - you've experienced it 3 times! dont know if i could handle that, i feel so bad seeing him limping. he loves a massage at night, puts him to sleep hehe we have 2 very spoilt puppies!! oohh swimming - that would be great for him.. might see if i can find any places close by to do that. he loves the beach but can only get there on the weekends, and even then it takes a bit to coax him into the water! sook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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