Tay. Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Just a question for all you obedience people out there So far, I have done 4 CCD trials with my BC Jess. We have only passed one. And two fails was because she lied down half way through the sit stays Today's trial she got great scores in heelwork, SFE and recall, then was a brat and lied down in sit stays. This time she had no excuse to, unlike our first trial where the weather was terrible and a shepherd got up beside her. The only thing i can think of that made her lie down, is that she was half asleep about 5 mins before stays. I'm finding it really hard to make her stop dropping in sit stays, because she basically only ever does it at a trial! At club trial class shes fine and at home. I know she knows how to do it, she just chooses to be lazy at trials! What should I do!!? Our next trial is at the German Shepherd Club of SA, and we are entered in novice because apprently I'm doing the balmead sheild with my club. Jess should be okay in novice, the sit stays are the same length of time so thats ok, I just hope she has a good stay, because she i know she can do it, she showed me at munno para trial a few weeks ago. HELP! She stays at club and home! WHY NOT TRIALS!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Is she worried?? My young border is dropping at the moment in sits but I can see that she is worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay. Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 Is she worried?? My young border is dropping at the moment in sits but I can see that she is worried. don't think so. don't see why she should be. might be the case though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keshwar Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 How stressed are you at the trials? Get someone to video you practicing the sit stay at home or club and then at a trial. Check your body language to see if it is different at the trial. Also when you practise don't always do the down stay directly after the sit stay. Break them up so a pattern is being formed - sit stay immediately followed by down stay. Bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivsky Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Are you unconsciously staring at your dog during stays? I also had a sit stay problem in our first 2 trials and like you would only happen at trials. Someone suggested to me to pick something to count during stays - could be people, trees, cars going past - pretty much anything that is behind your dog that you can pick out and as an added benefit it gives you something to do to take your mind off getting nervous about it as well Might just have been a coincidence but once I started doing that he never had a problem with the stays after that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay. Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 How stressed are you at the trials?Get someone to video you practicing the sit stay at home or club and then at a trial. Check your body language to see if it is different at the trial. Also when you practise don't always do the down stay directly after the sit stay. Break them up so a pattern is being formed - sit stay immediately followed by down stay. Bear. ok thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay. Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 Are you unconsciously staring at your dog during stays? I also had a sit stay problem in our first 2 trials and like you would only happen at trials. Someone suggested to me to pick something to count during stays - could be people, trees, cars going past - pretty much anything that is behind your dog that you can pick out and as an added benefit it gives you something to do to take your mind off getting nervous about it as well Might just have been a coincidence but once I started doing that he never had a problem with the stays after that!! that sounds like a great idea! thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I do the opposite! When practicing stays, I reward heavily for eye contact - helps Zig concentrate and have something to look at other than the fun looking dogs next to him or in the neighbouring rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 What I have done with my younger dog to hopefully avoid this issue but also I seem to do it with my older girl now it that the sit or drop becomes a default "stay" command. So the dog must remain in that position until given another command or released. Not a quick fix but I am finding it useful for a number of things. It also means that the dog doesn't merge the concept of "stay" as any behavior so long as I don't move. My stay/wait is now a semi-informal command which I will use if I don't care what position the dog stays in so long as it stays there. Sit means sit until you hear another command, drop means drop until you hear another command, stand means stand until you hear another command .... I find they do generalise across the particular positions but it seems to avoid confusion for the dog. I know you participate in agility so will use this as an example of where it can be useful. I was teaching a table wait the other night. Got her to offer a drop on the table but then the "stay" behavior was automatic since she knows drop means drop unless told otherwise. Same for teaching obedience behaviors like the drop on recall in open - drop means drop until you hear another command. Way way way down the obedience track it can be also useful for the positions in motion in UDX . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Yep - agree with Keshwar about not doing one after the other until they are solid. If you're in a class where they're doing them straight after the other, you can always release your dog with your release word, and move them round a bit. And agree with ness about "keep doing what you're doing until I tell you something else" - I'm trying to do that with my youngster. Having said that - it does seem to be a common BC problem. My guess is that in their stock work, they would normally be standing, moving, or dropped, so in a way, drop is a bit of a genetically programmed position. Had the problem with my first BC boy - eneded up rewarding the sit position so heavily, that he would tend to pop into a sit right at the end of the 10 minutes( in those days) long down, thinking that I would be so pleased with him. :D And there was the day we were doing Open in Victoria - 10 dogs in the ring, 3 BCs - came back from the out of sight after the sit stay - 3 dogs in a drop - you guessed it - the 3 BCs - I was quite pleased as my boy had been the last one down. He obviously looked along the line and decided BC union rules were to drop. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xena98 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 No all the problems about the sit stays. Have lost lots of passes cause of that and especially one very special pass that my border collie got and that was 200 and yep she lay down When I train I dont do a lot of drop stays only the sit stays and reward. I always tell my dogs to sit for sit stay and drop for drop stay. Xena my coolie hasnt really stuffed any stays up apart from doing dead dog in drop stays so we loose more points my border collie has just started now for the last 18 months breaking her sit stays but we havent done any open in trials practically all year and my young coolie decided to do something very different and stand up. Dont know if when you are trialing and your dog has broken the sit stay do you do the drop stay. I dont I pull my dogs out and do another sit stay straight away and than reward. Your actually praising the dog to break position. Another thing I do is praise the dog in position and at training I feed in the position telling my dog what a good sit stay that she has done. I have also seen people after they have done the sit stay pat the dog and than drop the dog in position this encourages dogs to break the sit stay as they are anticipating the drop stay The other thing it can be habit forming nothing happens in the ring good I can do it that is why I gave Inka a break. Also check to see if the dog is ok I had Inka checked up and found something with the neck and since treatment she did sit and stay (Playing tug with the younger pup and swinging her dont do that anymore) Also it does seem to be a BC problem Good Luck with your dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 and its a toller problem Some things to be mindful of in a trial - getting the dog into a sit stay and then having to wait while the judge checks their stop watch and then tells the steward what to do, meanwhile the dogs have been sitting for close to 5 minutes. Get the dog into a sit stay at the last moment. Mix it up at training - do a down stay first and then a sit stay If you are doing stays at training have one in a sit and the next in a down and the next in a sit. Go back and reward regularly Make sure you are training for longer than what you will be doing at a trial Do some informal ones at home put the dog in a sit stay and then go and pull some weeds - does the dog move??? and if all else fails I think we should all get together and at the next rule change get rid of this exercise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I vote for can we just have a stay but it doesn't matter what position the dog is in . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xena98 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Here, here Totally agree on that one or just forget about the sit stay and just do drop stay and doesnt matter if dog does dead dog in stays as it was very hard to get to the stays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Lol there are lots about the rules I would like to change!! I feel a thread coming on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Hmm nope I think just having the drop stay would be highly unfair as my dog nails the sit stay but likes to sit up in the drop stay. Why should you guys all get it easy, by just removing the sit. Edited August 3, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivsky Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 My vote would be get rid of the stays altogether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Oh yes fantastic idea Rivsky . Maybe it could become an optional exercise . Edited August 3, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xena98 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I'd say that would be the best idea ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) I still think a UD title log book style would be a nice addition to the rules . Suppose we could make that across all levels though . You must pass at least every exercise a certain number of times but you don't need to pass them all on any one given day. Actually I just had a money making scheme for the judges maybe they you could for an extra $50 reattempt any one exercise . Edited August 3, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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