Troy Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The Leonberger ANKC Standard(from http://www.ankc.org.au/home/breeds_details.asp?bid=168 ) Group: Group 6 (Utility) General Appearance: Large, strong, muscular yet elegant. Confident, calm and lively. Males in particular should be powerful and strong. Characteristics: Amendable, intelligent and fearless companion; distinguished by his friendliness. Temperament: Self-assured and playful. Neither timid nor aggressive. Head And Skull: Head in balance with body and limbs. Strong, but not heavy, elongated rather than stocky. Proportions of muzzle to skull equal. No wrinkles. Shull in profile and seen from the front slightly arched. The back part of the skull not substantially broader than at the eyes. Medium stop. Nose black. Cheeks only moderately developed, muzzle moderately tapered, but never snippy. Nasal bridge of even breadth and slightly arched (roman nose). Eyes: Neither deep set nor protruding, of medium size. Oval in shape with kind expression. Medium to dark brown in colour. Eyelids close fitting, showing no haw. Ears: Set on high and not too far back pendant medium sized, hanging close to the side of the head, fleshy with rounded tips, well feathered. Mouth: Strong jaws with perfect regular and complete scissor bite, level bite tolerated. Teeth evenly placed and vertical in the jaw, with complete dentition. No constriction of the canines in the lower jaw. Lips close fitting, black, corner of lips closed. Neck: Strong, flowing into the withers in a slight arch, without throatiness. Moderately long, no dewlap. Forequarters: Shoulders well laid, elbows close fitting. Forelegs straight, well boned and not too close. Shoulder and upper arm long, Slopping and well muscled. Pasterns strong, firm and straight when seen from front, almost vertical seen from side. Body: Height at withers to length of body in ratio of 9 to 10 (measured from point of shoulder to point of buttock). Depth of chest approximately 50% of height at withers. Which should be pronounced, especially in males. Moderate forechest. Chest broad, deep, reaching at least to elbows. Oval, not barrel-chested. Back firm and straight with broad loins, strong and well muscled. Moderately sloping croup with relatively long broad rump, gently rounded. Rump never higher than withers. Slight tuck up. Hindquarters: Legs set not too close together and parallel when seen from rear. Well muscled long, slanting upper thigh. Moderate bend of stifle. Hocks strong, angle between lower thigh and rear pastern well defined, turned neither in not out. Dewclaws should be removed. Feet: Tight and rounded with well arched toes. Front feet pointing directly forwards. Pads black. Tail: Well furnished, straight, reaching at least to hock. On the move tail slightly curved, not carried above level of back. Never forming a ring. Gait/Movement: Ground covering, even movement in all gaits maintaining a level topline. Extending well in front with good drive from hindquarters. Seen from front and behind, legs move in a straight line when walking or trotting. Coat: Not Specified. Colour: Lion gold, red, reddish brown, sandy (fawn or cream) and all combinations in between, always with a black mask. Black hair tips are permitted. Black must not dominate basic colour. Lighter colour on underside of tail, mane, feathering on front legs and breeches on hindlegs normal, but must not be pronounced. A small white patch or stripe on the chest and white hair on the toes tolerated. Sizes: Height at Withers Dogs: 72-80 cms (28.5-31.5 ins) Bitches: 65-75 cms (25.5-29.5 ins) Faults: Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog. Notes: Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum. See Photos of the Leonberger QUESTIONS 1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? 3. How common is it in Australia? 4. What is the average lifespan? 5. What is the general temperament/personality? 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? 9. How much grooming is required? 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be) If you wish to contribute to the knowledge about this breed, please answer the above questions. (Copy and paste them into a new post). Please only answer if you breed or own a pedigree example of this breed. You do not have to answer all questions Please keep posts limited to answering questions or for asking further questions if you require more (or expanded) information. See Photos of the Leonberger Leonberger Breeders Leonberger Puppies For Sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Oh come on Leo people!!! I want to hear more about these dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mim Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Oh come on Leo people!!!I want to hear more about these dogs! X 2!! I've already read heaps but I want more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Me tooo!!!!!! In the mean time... I have a piccie of a Leo puppy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mim Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Soooooooo cute! I have a question I haven't been able to answer via my research, what is a rough price range for a leo? Just a pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointees Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I like that question Mim. I know it all comes down to the individual dog, but how are these guys in a family home? Would you say they are better for a same, a single person or a couple? How do you think this breed would go with Pointers? In my house, its my mother, my younger brother, younger sister, myself, my uncle and my boyfriend (he's over every weekend), I am the main carer for the dogs - I walk them, feed them, play with them, bath them, etc, etc, etc, I do it all - would you say a Leonberger would find myself as the 'pack leader' or would it rather spend time with my boyfriend, or another family member as it may get attacted to them instead? Sorry if that question is all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartypaws Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Pointees' date='29th Dec 2009 - 09:27 PM' post='422017 I like that question Mim. I know it all comes down to the individual dog, but how are these guys in a family home? Would you say they are better for a same, a single person or a couple? How do you think this breed would go with Pointers? In my house, its my mother, my younger brother, younger sister, myself, my uncle and my boyfriend (he's over every weekend), I am the main carer for the dogs - I walk them, feed them, play with them, bath them, etc, etc, etc, I do it all - would you say a Leonberger would find myself as the 'pack leader' or would it rather spend time with my boyfriend, or another family member as it may get attacted to them instead? Sorry if that question is all over the place. Oh Hi Leos are fabulous family dogs . My girl is about to turn six. I actually had her before my two children, who are now almost 4 and 1. She adapted beautifully to their arrival - woudl lie at my sons feet while he bounced all over her in his jolly jumper . So, she was great when it was just me, my hubby and my other dog, a Siberian Husky, but she is also brilliant now that we have kids. As a puppy she was full on, but has matured into a beautiful, calm, loyal and protective family dog. That said, they generally mature pretty slowly, so be prepared for a 40- 50kg puppy brain!! Leos do not do well with harsh forms of training, so lots of positive reinforcement is the way to go with these guys, but they are really smart and willing to please (in general). As far as "pack leader" goes, my girl is trained and responds to anyone giving the commands (as long as they are given as she understands them - same cue word and/or hand signal), including my children. She is my shadow however, and will likely be wherever I am in the house for the most part....unless there is a game going on somewhere that she wants to be part of! I have my own opinions on the "pack leader" theory, and basically think that if you are kind, consistent, control the majority of resources in the dogs life and keep your dog safe your dog will see you as a leader. On a whole, leos are generally good with other dogs, but they are big, and my girl does not appreciate over the top, rude dogs and will tell them so. Of course, lots of positive socialisation will help make your leo a well rounded dog. I take her to training with me (I teach obedience) and she is a brilliant demo and socialisation dog. She will stay in a drop stay while puppies leap all over her. She will also stay in a drop position to play with little dogs. She will send out all lthe right calming signals to uncertain /anxious dogs, and will follow my lead as to how to behave depending on the dog I am using her to socialise. But, when I go walking with my kids, she keeps a very close eye on other walkers and dogs and will go on "alert" if they get too close to us. Of course, she listens to me and will "on by" (walk past), but she will keep looking back to make sure they have kept on going, and if the dog is leaping around and or barking, she may give one warning bark back. Now here is the catch......how much do you like fur?? And I mean LIKE LIKE :D . I brush my leo daily (even though I was told weekly would be enough when I was researching the breed - it's not for my girl) and brush out 5-6 brushfuls of hair a day. I vacuum every 1-2 days, otherwise there would be tumbleweeds of fur all over my house. Every piece of clothing I own is covered in dog hair, as well as my car. These guys shed copiously! Of course, within the breed there are different coat types, my girl does have a long, heavy, stunning looking coat, and it takes a lot of work to keep it looking that way. If she isn't brushed regularly (or thoroughly) she matts, and she is prone to hot spots, so I keep her coat conditioned with an antibacterial product to keep them at bay. When she is bathed she needs to be blow dried to make sure her undercoat is not left damp (perfect for hotspots), and I send her to a groomer a few times a year to have her undercoat brushed out completely. I used to do this myself, but it is really time consuming, time I would rather spend playing with my dogs. Oh, the price tag, I waited 2 years for my girl (6 years ago) and she cost me $2500 then. You would need to contact a breeder to find out how much you might pay now. There are a lot more breeders around now than when I was looking, so you may have more choice. Wow, that was long.....but I could talk all day about my gorgeous breed :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoilt lab lives here Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 When i met up with some Leos and their owners in November, I asked about the price and depending on the breeder prices from $2000 to $2500. To import a Leo from NZ I was told roughly $2000. I love this breed! When i eventually get my boy ill be showing him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mim Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 What age should a leo be desexed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointees Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Oh! Wow, thanks for that answer, very detailed and informative! They sound wonderful. I looked after one when I worked at a boarding kennels, he was a a showdog in the past, now in a pet home but used at stud. he had mostly German bloodlines and was just amazing to look at, and so sweet and docile. Although his head was the size of my body! I'm tiny for an 18 year old. :p But god I loved the look and temperament of him! Hair is no issue. I have that problem with three Pointers and tend to vaccum my room every second day. white hairs on black bed sheets... I wasn't to smart buying black sheets! :D Not to smart letting my 'top girl' April sleep on my bed, considering I tend to wake up and she has crawled under the blanket! :D Min, going by the size of the breed, and weight, I wouldn't desex before 2 years old. With Pointers you should idealy wait until a year old, and they are only half the size and weight of a Leonberger. Maybe 2 and a half to be safe. If you can stand putting up with the seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartypaws Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Oh! Wow, thanks for that answer, very detailed and informative! They sound wonderful. I looked after one when I worked at a boarding kennels, he was a a showdog in the past, now in a pet home but used at stud. he had mostly German bloodlines and was just amazing to look at, and so sweet and docile. Although his head was the size of my body! I'm tiny for an 18 year old. But god I loved the look and temperament of him! Hair is no issue. I have that problem with three Pointers and tend to vaccum my room every second day. white hairs on black bed sheets... I wasn't to smart buying black sheets! Not to smart letting my 'top girl' April sleep on my bed, considering I tend to wake up and she has crawled under the blanket! Min, going by the size of the breed, and weight, I wouldn't desex before 2 years old. With Pointers you should idealy wait until a year old, and they are only half the size and weight of a Leonberger. Maybe 2 and a half to be safe. If you can stand putting up with the seasons. No probldem Pointee :D . Leos really are a wonderful breed, the only downfall I find is the grooming. I know you say that hair isn't an issue, I said that and I had a husky, but Mia (my leo) is like keeping 10 husky's groomed . But again, there are different coat types, so you may get one of the "wash and wear" Leo's that are apparently out there ;). Brush weekly and bath every 3-4 weeks, drip dry and bob's your uncle ;) . They do have a faultless temperament if raised well though. And they also have a fantastic sense of humour! Mim - on de-sexing - I have always thought de-sexing is a personal issue that depends on your beliefs/reasons for delaying. My girl was done at 18mths once she was titled. My sibe was done at 6mths, as he is a pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveMyLeos Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 HI Kath How is Mia Going? I have Elsa, Mia's her litter sister. Happy 6th birthday 'today' to them both!!! what a small world it is I Own 3 Leonbergers 8 years, 6 years and 7 months Breed as a Companion Dog in Leonberg, German - Aim was to develop a Lion like dog that would resemble the town Crest of Leonberg. only around 200 in Australia they are quite Rare here What is the average lifespan? 8 - 10 year is average but they can live in to there early teens. general temperament/personality? As a General Rule they are a social, friendly, family dog that is not dog aggressive, although 2 intact males may get a bit growly if they don't like each other... We often have 14 Leonbergers running loose on our fundays at the beach with other dogs and we have very few problems most get along really well. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? Not that much.. they like to be out with the family and a good run in an off leash area with other dogs to play with is Idea. Lead walking is fine but its the Socialing and play that they crave. Young Leonbergers should not be exercised too much as it puts too much stress on there growing joins and bones.. They should be allowed to play as much as they want where they can stop and rest when THEY want to.... on a Lead they feel they have to follow even if they want to stop. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? They are quite easy going dogs but if they feel you don't know what you are doing they will push the boundrys and you could end up with an 60+ kg dog that does what it likes.. But then I've seen Maltese Terriers do this to owners as well.. Basicly they need Training, they are very smart and learn quickly but they are not a robot dog they do stuff because they want too or because it pleases the owner, I have CCD titles with 2 of my girls and By 6 year old is just starting Agility we have a pass in Jumping so far. They do not handle Rough handling.. I find they do very well with Clicker Training. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? NO not really, they are family dogs and want to be part of the family, if left along too long they will get board and Lonely and soon will start to redecorate the yard. How much grooming is required? I'm a dog groomer and I find the coat quiet easy to groom... I do the pants, behind ears, tail neck every day, then about once a week I brush over the body.. I find that a good wash and blow dry loosens the coat and helps get more out. Once they are Desexed the coats gets longer and thicker.... Leonbergers Moult a LOT but the nature of this breed is worth puting up with a bit more vaccuming... Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? Leos can be sill when young and need training, but as long as they are trained they are usualy very good around kids and many Leos work in Nursing homes due there very gentle and sencible nature as Adults Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? They are fairly healthy due to carefull breeding but breeding dog must be tested for Hips, Elbow and have clear eyes GO through a Club to find good breeders, Beware Of unregistered pups as most of these are from untested parents. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be) Elbows 0-0 is good and most are. Hips 8 - 8 or lower is what is Recomnded by the clubs Eyes should be clear - My 3 Leonberger live with a Giant Schnauzer, Airedale Terrier and a Mini Schnauzer with out any problem.. my young 7 month old loves to play with the Giant Schnauzer (6 years old) and they play really rough but she can also play very gently with the mini Schnauzer (2 Year intact male) she knows if she gets rough he will go inside... so she picks up toys to play tug of war with him and she will pull him very gently and then let him win for a little bit The Leonberger is a very special Breed and more of a good Friend than a Dog. Beth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveMyLeos Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I like that question Mim. I know it all comes down to the individual dog, but how are these guys in a family home? Would you say they are better for a same, a single person or a couple? How do you think this breed would go with Pointers? In my house, its my mother, my younger brother, younger sister, myself, my uncle and my boyfriend (he's over every weekend), I am the main carer for the dogs - I walk them, feed them, play with them, bath them, etc, etc, etc, I do it all - would you say a Leonberger would find myself as the 'pack leader' or would it rather spend time with my boyfriend, or another family member as it may get attacted to them instead? Sorry if that question is all over the place. Hi Pointee Leonbergers love attention and being around people and other animals, but having said that they are not anouying about it.. they are happy to just sit this you. they will be happy to attach to the whole family but if you do more with the dogs then you will find you will be the one they want to be with most of the time. Leos tend to want to befriend the person that really is not interested in them... spending extra time trying to make friends this goes for other animals as well ;o) I'm sure that Leos would love to live with pointers.. they maybe a little rough with the pointers at first till they learn but then again my girls can't keep up with the pointers we meet down the park. the pointers have a lot of fun getting the Leos to chase them but Leos don't usualy have great speed for long so they soon slow down and get smart - they then start storking and hinding behind a bush or chair and then jumping out when they come by... just like a Lion its very funny to watch ;o) If the Pointers don't like them it won't take long before the Leos win them over Only problem you may have is if you leave home one day your Leo is going to be upset about the family being split up... they are a very sensitive dog Prices - Here is Oz... around $2000 - $2500 in NZ $2000 - $3000 + aprox $1000 for shiping etc. Desexing age - Best to wait till they are Mature and have finished growing.. so 2 + years old would be best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointees Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Thanks guy! I'll have to consider one in the future, but with a malt cross, 2 english pointers and a gsp... Theres no room at the moment. They do sound delightful. Another question I have... Are there any in Melbourne area that I can play with one day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartypaws Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 HI Kath How is Mia Going? I have Elsa, Mia's her litter sister. Happy 6th birthday 'today' to them both!!! what a small world it is I Own 3 Leonbergers 8 years, 6 years and 7 months Hi Beth!! How are you going!! How is Elsa....and Chardy....and who is your new baby?? And Mia says happy birthday to her sister too! :D Yes indeed, the Leo world is a small one . Mia is fantastic! Still the loveable goofball she has always been. I can't believe that you don't find grooming your girls a big job? But then again, you are a dog groomer, so must enjoy it to some degree . I also think Mia has an exceptional coat - long, thick and easily matted, but she is also desexed. I coat king her regularly, and in summer, clip her tummy, the insides of her back legs and sometimes even the back of her front legs - this helps with checking for ticks too, a big problem around here. For me personally, with two young kids in the house now, I do find the hair everywhere painful. Of course, this is not totally Mia's fault, Sax also adds to the furry carpet :D. It didn't bother me so much before the children. Great advice for Pointee too! Leos are just fantastic! It would be so nice to catch up again.....wish we were in NSW still so we could come to the fundays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveMyLeos Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Hi Beth!! How are you going!! How is Elsa....and Chardy....and who is your new baby?? And Mia says happy birthday to her sister too! Yes indeed, the Leo world is a small one :D. Mia is fantastic! Still the loveable goofball she has always been. I can't believe that you don't find grooming your girls a big job? But then again, you are a dog groomer, so must enjoy it to some degree . I also think Mia has an exceptional coat - long, thick and easily matted, but she is also desexed. It would be so nice to catch up again.....wish we were in NSW still so we could come to the fundays! HI Kath Elsa and Chardy are doing great Chardy is as Cute and silly as ever, Elsa is doing well in Agility now she can weave quite well now (most days anyway) and loves it.. Its a lot of Fun.. We have little chance in winning due to her size but I don't care as long as we have fun and she can get passes with out beating others so its a good sport, Elsa is only small and fine for a Leo at only 40kg so she is perfect for Agility. My New Girl 'Zephyr' is 7 months old and I imported her from NZ from "Leonnz" I fell in love with the out standing Temperment of her Parents and after meeting Wynnie (Kerrie Ports in Tasmaina's New Girl with the same mother) I could not resist a new pup fromher following litter... so after a very long 3 month wait she few over to OZ at the age of 12 weeks... she is a real Delight, very sooky, but she is very desturctive when left along in the yard... But she is starting to settle down now. at 7 months Zephyr is a touch taller than my other 2 girls so she is going to be a big girl when she grows up. Photo is of Elsa (Left) and Zephyr at 6 months old With the Hair I would rather the long Leo hair than the short hair of the pointers coat when it comes to being in the house.. I used to own a X lab - Bull mastiff (black) and she hair got into everything it weaves into the lounge, clothes etc.. and you can't get it out... Where the long coat tents to stick on everything but you can wipe it off with a clothes brush or a moist hand.. having said that I don't wear black and most of my clothes and house furishings are bought with brown Leonberger fur in mind :D Also Male Leos are nice and impressive with the Mane, but remember they are bigger and also have much longer hair.. so if you not fussed on grooming but Love Leos best to with a Female. GROOMING - If you want a good Slicker brush for this type of coat try the "Les Poochs Pro Brush" Purple one.. 'Firm / Firm' wide.. they are very expencive at around $100 for a brush but you get a brush with 2 sides and they are magic through coats like this. The one that is cheeper and just 'Firm' only has one usable brush side the other side is a sort of Comb which I can't see it being of any use. I would rather 2 brushes.. at least when One side is full you can turn if over and keep brushing. Dont' bother with the regular(small) size as they are WAY to small with only about 1 inch square of brush The Mat-Zapper one (red) is great too but its more expencive and does the same job, just a touch firmer. I have both does not make a lot of Difference. here is a web site to the brushes if anyone is interested. http://www.naturalpetstore.com.au/d/LPPFBW.../f---wide-size/ Victorian Leonbergers - there are more Leonbergers in Victoria than any other state at the moment. photo of the puppys in the cart was taken on the weekend in Victoria when I visited 'Adlihtam Leonbergers' to see their 7 week old Leo pups... Soooo cute!!! If you contacted Lyndsay of Adlihtam Leo's she could put you in touch with other Leo people, its a fairly small world and most of us know each other. or you can go to the NSW Leo site www.nswleos.com and find a list of Breeders both in OZ and NZ. NSW Leo Assn. has Fundays and we have around 14 Leos join us these days which is very good as we only have around 30 in NSW.. Interested people are more than welcome to come along to these days to see all the different Leo as they can and get to know them. I find this one of the best ways people can see if Leos are a Dog for them. Beth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointees Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Thanks for all that lovemyleos! ;) I know what you mean about the Pointer hair! :D If I lived in NSW I would be there for all the fundays! :D Might just have to get some Leos to the Kepala meets. Slicker brushes work wonders! I used to love using them when I had to groom dogs. Personally, I would go for a long coated male. :D I love the long coats on dogs, BC's, Aussie shepherds, Leos, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outatime Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 One other, very important thing that HAS to be mentioned about Leonbergers.... ...and Water!!! .......if its there, they WILL find it and do all they can to get their entire body into it! So you must be prepared for water everywhere! At one point, I was considering filling the bottom of the water bowl with concrete to try keep it on the ground, but then I realised it wouldn't stop the paws from just digging it out They're the best...you'll wonder how you ever lived without them! I can't wait to get a second one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mim Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) A leo sounds like a corgi on stilts! I'd already read about them loving water. I bought my corgis their own pool because they love water so much I reckon they could give leos a run for their money in the shedding department. We have hair everywhere, vacuum every day but it still shows up Nobody bats an eyelid if there's dog hair in their dinner or drink anymore How will I fit a leo and a corgi on my bed!? Edited January 9, 2010 by Mim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointees Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Omg! Look at that dog in that LITTLE pool! They sound great! My dogs love to go to Kepala, so a Leo would fit in! Considering Kepala have their outdoor pool!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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